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im sorry but putting a dog to sleep should be a LAST resort, in terms of the first incident the woman stuck her face neer the face of a large strange (and maturing) dog...NOT his fault she made the wrong move.
in the cae of the child we dont know if there was trigger.
this dog needs to be PROERLY asesed by a vet for medical causes, (pin, vision/hearing issues ect) THEN properly assesed by a behaviourist, if TRAINING doesnt help THEN cosider humanely euthanizing but suggesting it as a "do it now" is kind of alarmist and completly unnesscary...for all we know the dog has a vision issue and was spooked and simple managment could be all it needs.
Because the dog attacked a child it was familiar with, a child that had been in and out of that home it's whole life...AND...as explained by the OP, it was totally unprovoked. Why risk this dog attacking and killing the next child. Humans before animals.
we as humans can only persive what we see were not mind reders, so what seemed perfeclty harmless to someone seeing it may not see what the dog saw.
a dog this size is EYE height to most children and eye contact seemed to be the trigger in the first case, mabe this child inadvertedly made the wrong eye contact ect.
Should this dog be trusted around anyone right now? NO
however a death sentence with NO investigation in my opinion is unfair...
if after veterinry investigation and a consult with a behaviourist cause cannot be found, then yes, humanely euthanizing would be the humane option
untill the dog is throughly checked by a vet and behaviourist i dont think it shoudl be trusted around anyone especially children...
and thats up to the owner to control/handle.
but i personally cant condem an animal simply based on a human observation of 2 incidents...
Ive known many a dog sudenly "snap" mentally, sentenced to such a fate only to see them turn around in the correct hands, many are quietly in pain.
Also, if this dog is from a repuatable breeder they would want to know whats going on, and might want to try other options (taking the dog back and getting it under a trainer ect) before euthanizing, ect.
dogs NEVER bite for "no reason" theres ALWAYS a reason, its just we as humans may not comprehend why such a dog "snapped" it could be something as simple as eye contact or something as complex as a mental defect but theres ALWAYS a reason, and in my opinion assuming that the dog can be seperated form guests (and its always possible to kee guest way from your dog by crting/seperating the dog into another room ect...) then its worth trying to figure out why Before ending the animals life simply because we do not understand the reason.
we as humans can only persive what we see were not mind reders, so what seemed perfeclty harmless to someone seeing it may not see what the dog saw.
a dog this size is EYE height to most children and eye contact seemed to be the trigger in the first case, mabe this child inadvertedly made the wrong eye contact ect.
Should this dog be trusted around anyone right now? NO
however a death sentence with NO investigation in my opinion is unfair...
if after veterinry investigation and a consult with a behaviourist cause cannot be found, then yes, humanely euthanizing would be the humane option
untill the dog is throughly checked by a vet and behaviourist i dont think it shoudl be trusted around anyone especially children...
and thats up to the owner to control/handle.
but i personally cant condem an animal simply based on a human observation of 2 incidents...
Ive known many a dog sudenly "snap" mentally, sentenced to such a fate only to see them turn around in the correct hands, many are quietly in pain.
Also, if this dog is from a repuatable breeder they would want to know whats going on, and might want to try other options (taking the dog back and getting it under a trainer ect) before euthanizing, ect.
dogs NEVER bite for "no reason" theres ALWAYS a reason, its just we as humans may not comprehend why such a dog "snapped" it could be something as simple as eye contact or something as complex as a mental defect but theres ALWAYS a reason, and in my opinion assuming that the dog can be seperated form guests (and its always possible to kee guest way from your dog by crting/seperating the dog into another room ect...) then its worth trying to figure out why Before ending the animals life simply because we do not understand the reason.
I underlined the statements you made that I do agree with. However, if you reread the OP's original post, this dog has also attacked his own Vet.
That is 3 times he has bitten and/or attacked humans, and 2 were familiar to him. And, the reasons are unknown. Pretty scarey a dog 180 lbs who attacks unprovoked.
I personally think this dog is a time bomb. And obviously nothing has been done be this owner in the nature of those suggestions you made, thus far.
I certainly hope this does not go any further. I honestly hope that the OP
takes your advice before it is too late. And I would certainly increase my home owners insurance.
I disagree w/ you summation that dogs only attack for a reason....I think there are some dogs that attack because they can. The Center for Disease Control has the statistics for fatalities by dog bite/attack, by year. They can also be found on Wikpedia.
Though you and I disagree...I certainly hope the OP is proactively seeking a resolution, no matter what she decides.
Vet gave us some sort of anxiety medication (Zoloft maybe) Behaviourilist spent about two plus hours with him. She said he has extreme anxiety and he lacks the normal focus on pleasing humans because he is so anxious. She said that the only reason we have not had problems earlier is that he was apparently well treated and given lots of attention. She said never take him out un-muzzled and make certain he cannot get outside without a leash and a muzzle. Even family members have to be careful with him.
He has always been very sweet with everyone, but dumber thn dumb and difficult to train. He is not a cuddly dog except with a few people becasue he will not sit still long enough to be petted much. He never seemed to understand when he had been bad. Just did not seem to care. He always seems to love everyone and runs around to greet tham and try to get petted (for a few seconds). Except now he will have to stay in his room and his run. No matter what we do, we will not take him out or allow him amongst guests without a muzzle on.
She gave us another anti-anxiety medication to give him and said that we can try the two medications and she can work with him, but if there is no improvement in six weeks, we should put him down. She seemed to think it unlikely that the medication and treatment or training (whatever a behaviouralist does) will work. She is not very optimistic. She feels it will be a bad idea to give him to anyone else, because he could kill someone if the anxiety is not controlled.
Apparently the anxiety issue is heriditary.
Now we have to decide whether we spend $1000 or so on meds and visits and probably have to put him down anyway, or just put him down (but probably feel like we failed to give him a chance).
Recently when I was out mowing the grass near his run, he came charging over barking meanly and ran right into the fence growling and barking. As soon as I let him smell my hand and petted him, he was fine. Same thing when he attacked ht egirl, He knocked her down bit her arm and then backed off. He did nto seem sorry, he was not upset or snapping at her, or at least did nto seem to be (I swept him up and stuck him back in his room and closed the door, so there was not a lot of time to observe his behaviour.).
Personally, I never liked him much, nor did my older daughters and one son. However our youngest son and one other daughter are pretty attached to him as is my wife. The behaviouralist said the reason no one likes him much is because he is so anxious that he lacks normal dog attributes that people love. She said he is incapable of bonding to humans. Probably the person who liked him the most is the girl he attacked. He is sweet and more or less behaves well. He likes to be petted for a few seconds, but it is hard to pet him because he is always trying to smell or like your hand and will nto hold his head still, then he runs off. He always always carries something around in his mouth and eventually tears it apart. He is really not that different form our other mastiff except that he seems hyper and incredibly stupid. (Plus the new biting people thing).
It bothers me because the girl he went after is 19. She is small, but still basically an adult. My youngest son is 12 and small for his age. If the dog went after him, it could be a lot worse than minor cuts and bruises. On the other hand, if that dog loves anyone, it is my son.
I think we wll also contact the breeder and suggest that she re-consider breeding any more puppies from those parents. Since it has been more than a year, I dout there is any liklihood of getting money back from the breeder.
We cannot help but wonder if there was something we did wrong to make him this way, but the behaviouralist said no. Our other mastiff is not like this (although she will go after other dogs, that is probably because a pit bull attacked her as a puppy, she is always fine with people - she is 9).
If anyone has any suggestions, please make them. This is a very unpleasant situation.
Last edited by Coldjensens; 05-23-2012 at 04:59 PM..
I think you have done everything you can. I would put him down now as he is not comfortable with that level of anxiety. Put yourself in his place, he is too anxious to enjoy life. It is really kinder to let him go now. At best meds will help him manage but he will still not be a happy dog.
I don't know about anxiety, perhaps just dominance as he is coming into adulthood? The common factor with the attack on the girl and woman is a new person who was eye level with him. Maybe the vet crouched down to his level as well as she examined him? I would strongly consider putting the dog humanely to sleep because it doesn't sound like he can have a happy life with a typical family. He can't be around when people come over. He can't be taken to the vet. He can't be taken for walks. You have to think about people's safety as well as his quality of life - how great is it for a dog to have to be isolated? How much more liability do you want to take on when he bites the next person? Will sedating him on meds really make him safer to be around? You are in a difficult situation so my heart goes out to you. Best of luck!
honestly, i woudl give him a few days filled with his FAVORITE things then let him go peacefully to sleep.
youve done the right thing, you had him checked by the vet who found no physical cause, you had a good consultation with a behaviourist who belives this to be a hereditary issue (chemical imbalances are genetic) and has given you the option to heavily medicate and hope for a miracle or let him go.
i am personally on anti anxiety medication and can tel you if it effects dogs the same way it effect people, at the doses it sounds shes suggesting, this dog will have NO real life...he wont be anxiety riddled, but he also will pretty much just lay around, in those kind of doses the meds simply sap all your fear AND joy away...
he would NOT have a good full life dosed up on anti anxity meds (and they can cause othr health issues) so i PERSONALLY would let him go with a clear concience. your not happy hes certainly not happy and now youve ruled out medical cause, i think its time to let him be at peace.
i would also contact his breeder IMMEIATLY, this kind of behavour is NOT training realted...if this was a dog whod been neglected abused never socilized ect, then id say it could be human influence...but youve soclized him, you have obviously looked after him, so to me this sounds 100% hereditary...and any breeder that wouldnt want to know (or doesnt care) is one that shoult be banned from owning a pet rock let alone breeding such a powerfull breed. and any breeder that is worth their reputation will be right ontop of this with you.
I adopted a Springer who was four years old who began doing the exact same thing. No provocation, rageful, and it lasted about two minutes, eyes dilated, then he start shaking his head, snuffling, and act weird. When he cornered me, clamped down on my hand and I am sure he would have killed me if he could, I called the police/animal control. It was heartbreaking but he had some sort of inbred "rage syndrome," which I would never have believed if I hadn't seen int.
You cannot be afraid of your own dog, especially one that large. I wouldn't want to "see how he does", because how about if he doesn't do so well, who will get hurt, and badly? I'm afraid he does need to be put down. You've done more than most to see it through, and he is a danger to you and anyone else around him. It's hard, I know but it's called for.
It is not easy to do the right thing. But, you know what that is in his case. Poor boy....obviously you definitely need to contact the breeders, and maybe even AKC because there are probably other dogs out there that may be carrying these genes. I feel compassion for you and for him...But, you are doing the right thing.
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