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Old 06-19-2012, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
4,695 posts, read 10,096,764 times
Reputation: 8457

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My brother has 3 english bull dogs 2 males and 1 female all are neutered or spayed. When he added the 3rd one all were adults and at first things were great then the new guy started going after the female and there were some bloody fights. They somehow worked it out and are pals now so things were peaceful for awhile then he started going after the other male and there have been some bad fights. He will even attack the male when he is asleep. They are trying to rehome the new guy but so far have had no luck .They use low expens to stretch as gates across the wide entry ways to major rooms in their house ( people can easliy step over them but the bullies never even try). So one of the males may be in the family room and the other in the rest of the house. They live in SO Calif.so the weather is too hot to leave a bully outside and if my brother is out all 3 can go out together. They do use crates for BOTH males if someone is not home and my brother takes Bruce ( the first male) to work with him which Bruce loves as he is a people dog and that gives Chloe and Winston all day to hang out and play.

So rotation of dogs does work but sometimes the stress on the dogs is too much such as when I had adopted Phoenix ( deaf and vision limited since birth) She would stare at Jazz and that set the queen off and Jazz would attack and Dash would jump in (always loyal to the Queen) and it sounded very vicious and poor Phoenix would be squealing however Jazz and Dash had inhibited bites and never left a tooth mark on Phoenix but the psychological damage was too much and I knew poor Phoenix lived in fear so I did rehome her with my parents . After both of my parents had died I brought Phoenix back and while I now had Dazzle as Dash had died I did still have Jazz and when we got home Phoenix was reluctant to come inside my house as those memories of the attacks no doubt lingered and she was also depressed by my Dad's sudden death but within a few days she was fine and when Jazz died I think Phoenix missed her.Phoenix while very fearful of Jazz also had this weird fasination with her and that is what got her in trouble as she would follow Jazz then just stare at her as if amazed at what ever Jazz was doing and Jazz saw stares as a challenge to her position on her throne.( truth was with her poor vision she was trying to see what it was Jazz was doing)

Even though I rehomed Phoenix with my parents so would still be able to see her when I visited and I knew she was in a loving home it was very very hard for me but watching poor Phoenix's spirit being destroyed because she lived in fear was even harder.

I am hoping you can get things smoothed out or live with rotation of dogs. When Phoenix was still with me I did leave her gated in the dining room with axcess to a small expen outside when I was gone and when I was home she was allowed to be with us but often a look from Jazz sent her out the pet door and she would stay out there until I made her come back in.Jazz seemed to enjoy that power of sending Phoenix out the door with a look.
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:13 PM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,355 posts, read 2,076,276 times
Reputation: 2611
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
The question isn't so much if a person is capable of maintaining a house of seperated and rotating pets, the issue really should be in who's best interest is this setup for? Truth be told, its the human who is deciding that the animals which may no longer get along will be kept in the house seperated for the benefit of the human. The animals are not benefiting from this, only the human by clinging to their possesions and refusing to let the animal be rehomed into a life that may be much better for them. And, that brings us back to something I said alll along, we CAN do this because to us these pets are nothing but property like a toaster!
Maybe you see pets as nothing but property, but mine are family. Honestly, tossing aside a dog like a used hankie after ONE fight seems like something one would do if they only saw their dogs as property. You make it sound as if I'm forcing vicious dogs to live together in fear, deprived of any love or attention. That's very far from what is going on here.
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Old 06-19-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 20,139,760 times
Reputation: 6482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashdog View Post
My brother has 3 english bull dogs 2 males and 1 female all are neutered or spayed. When he added the 3rd one all were adults and at first things were great then the new guy started going after the female and there were some bloody fights. They somehow worked it out and are pals now so things were peaceful for awhile then he started going after the other male and there have been some bad fights. He will even attack the male when he is asleep. They are trying to rehome the new guy but so far have had no luck .They use low expens to stretch as gates across the wide entry ways to major rooms in their house ( people can easliy step over them but the bullies never even try). So one of the males may be in the family room and the other in the rest of the house. They live in SO Calif.so the weather is too hot to leave a bully outside and if my brother is out all 3 can go out together. They do use crates for BOTH males if someone is not home and my brother takes Bruce ( the first male) to work with him which Bruce loves as he is a people dog and that gives Chloe and Winston all day to hang out and play.

So rotation of dogs does work but sometimes the stress on the dogs is too much such as when I had adopted Phoenix ( deaf and vision limited since birth) She would stare at Jazz and that set the queen off and Jazz would attack and Dash would jump in (always loyal to the Queen) and it sounded very vicious and poor Phoenix would be squealing however Jazz and Dash had inhibited bites and never left a tooth mark on Phoenix but the psychological damage was too much and I knew poor Phoenix lived in fear so I did rehome her with my parents . After both of my parents had died I brought Phoenix back and while I now had Dazzle as Dash had died I did still have Jazz and when we got home Phoenix was reluctant to come inside my house as those memories of the attacks no doubt lingered and she was also depressed by my Dad's sudden death but within a few days she was fine and when Jazz died I think Phoenix missed her.Phoenix while very fearful of Jazz also had this weird fasination with her and that is what got her in trouble as she would follow Jazz then just stare at her as if amazed at what ever Jazz was doing and Jazz saw stares as a challenge to her position on her throne.( truth was with her poor vision she was trying to see what it was Jazz was doing)

Even though I rehomed Phoenix with my parents so would still be able to see her when I visited and I knew she was in a loving home it was very very hard for me but watching poor Phoenix's spirit being destroyed because she lived in fear was even harder.

I am hoping you can get things smoothed out or live with rotation of dogs. When Phoenix was still with me I did leave her gated in the dining room with axcess to a small expen outside when I was gone and when I was home she was allowed to be with us but often a look from Jazz sent her out the pet door and she would stay out there until I made her come back in.Jazz seemed to enjoy that power of sending Phoenix out the door with a look.
Poor Phoenix. My Blizzard never seemed to get along with my older Shasta. It was not until after Shasta died that I realized Blizzard was depressed. As strange as it seems, apparently they did have some sort of relationship. That is why I got Buddy (a male this time) to keep Blizzard company. That improved her mood considerably, then she started to attack Buddy. I had to keep her muzzled until Buddy matured and could handle himself. Buddy is a really sweet guy, but he does not take any crap from Blizzard. Blizzard is no longer aggressive toward Buddy, and for the last 4 years they have gotten along just fine. Their favorite game is stealing each others toys.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:01 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
29,496 posts, read 16,376,268 times
Reputation: 22136
Quote:
Originally Posted by PacificFlights View Post
The question isn't so much if a person is capable of maintaining a house of seperated and rotating pets, the issue really should be in who's best interest is this setup for? Truth be told, its the human who is deciding that the animals which may no longer get along will be kept in the house seperated for the benefit of the human. The animals are not benefiting from this, only the human by clinging to their possesions and refusing to let the animal be rehomed into a life that may be much better for them. And, that brings us back to something I said alll along, we CAN do this because to us these pets are nothing but property like a toaster!
It's really not that big of a deal to keep your dogs separated. And it doesn't mean that the pets are a toaster.

Who does it benefit? Everyone ~ if it's doable for that particular household. The dogs get to stay with people they love. They don't have to try to be 'rehomed' which, as you know, is not always that easy.

It's just like they are an only dog. I know a few people that do it (no kids in the house) and they really don't make a big fuss about it. It's just how it is. The dogs seem quite ok with it.
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Old 06-20-2012, 09:29 AM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
4,695 posts, read 10,096,764 times
Reputation: 8457
I have to agree with some of the others as I do not view my dogs as property they are family and when I take in any pet it is for a lifetime, through good times and bad times. I would never have let Phoenix go to anyone but my parents as I loved that silly deaf girl and as I said it was HARD to even let her go to my parents but when I saw her happy and very spirited again I knew I did right for her. If you do not consider a dog family and or have an emotional attachment to it yeah then maybe it is easy to rehome a dog but then I have to question what type of life did your dog have with you as it is a living breathing being not a toaster.

When I hear people call a dog property or make statements like it is just a dog it make me think of this poem.

[CENTER]JUST A DOG

From time to time, people tell me, "lighten up, it's just a dog,"
or "that's a lot of money for just a dog."

They don't understand the distance travelled, the time spent,
or the costs involved for "just a dog."

Some of my proudest moments have come about with "just a dog."

Many hours have passed and my only company was "just a dog,"
but I did not once feel slighted.

Some of my saddest moments have been brought aobut by
"just a dog," and in those days of darkness, the gentle touch
of "just a dog" gave me comfort and reason to overcome the day.

If you, too, think it's "just a dog," then you probably understand
phrases like "just a friend," "just a sunrise," or "just a promise."

"Just a dog" brings into my life the very essence of friendship,
trust, and pure unbridled joy.
"Just a dog" brings out the compassion and patience
that make me a better person.
Because of "just a dog" I will rise early, take long walks and look
longingly to the future.

So for me and folks like me, it's not "just a dog"
but an embodiment of all the hopes and dreams of the future,
the fond memories of the past, and the pure joy of the moment.

"Just a dog" brings out what's good in me and diverts my thoughts
away from myself and the worries of the day.

I hope that someday they can understand that its' not "just a dog"
but the thing that gives me humanity and keeps me from being
"just a man" or "just a woman."

So the next time you hear the phrase "just a dog,"
just smile,
because they "just don't understand."

~Unknown Author~ [/CENTER]
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Old 06-20-2012, 10:56 AM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,355 posts, read 2,076,276 times
Reputation: 2611
We're definitely making progress. They're used to clicker training and the clicker has been getting a lot of use to reinforce desirable behavior. I'm not expecting anything to suddenly be fixed overnight, but both dogs are being very relaxed with each other through the baby gate. I do close doors if I'm not sitting right with them, because I know the baby gate could be knocked or jumped over. They haven't seemed tempted to that, though.

Jack has been such a big help. He's an incredibly good boy.

The muzzles should be here today and we'll start getting them comfortable with those. I'm not going to put them together until we can use the muzzles. I will be much more comfortable then, with the possibility of them biting each other taken right out of the equation, and I don't want to jeopardize the dogs' success by injecting my own nervous energy into the situation. I know I would do that right now, no matter how hard I tried not to.

Abby went in for a dressing change today and she gets the drain out on Friday. She's healing well. My doctor is pretty confident that I won't need surgery on my hand, so it's just 4-6 weeks in a splint.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Montreal -> CT -> MA -> Montreal -> Ottawa
16,628 posts, read 26,551,353 times
Reputation: 26532
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdna View Post
We're definitely making progress. They're used to clicker training and the clicker has been getting a lot of use to reinforce desirable behavior. I'm not expecting anything to suddenly be fixed overnight, but both dogs are being very relaxed with each other through the baby gate. I do close doors if I'm not sitting right with them, because I know the baby gate could be knocked or jumped over. They haven't seemed tempted to that, though.

Jack has been such a big help. He's an incredibly good boy.

The muzzles should be here today and we'll start getting them comfortable with those. I'm not going to put them together until we can use the muzzles. I will be much more comfortable then, with the possibility of them biting each other taken right out of the equation, and I don't want to jeopardize the dogs' success by injecting my own nervous energy into the situation. I know I would do that right now, no matter how hard I tried not to.

Abby went in for a dressing change today and she gets the drain out on Friday. She's healing well. My doctor is pretty confident that I won't need surgery on my hand, so it's just 4-6 weeks in a splint.
1. I love Jack. Always have, always will.

2. I'm so happy that the girls are relaxed together, albeit with a gate separating them.

3. I'm THRILLED that you'll very likely only need a splint.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:08 AM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 12,184,128 times
Reputation: 3010
Once they have a fight, there will be more, trust me on this one. I have had a few in the past 7 years.
I have 4 big female dogs. All were rescues and were older when I got them except for one, my oldest, she was 3 months and is the most docile of all.

My Princess pittie has some food aggression issues so I feed her in a gated room by herself until the others are done eating. I have to be careful when I am around food because she is always right there, almost guarding the space.
I have had a number of fights and many $$$ vet bills over the years. I also have a red zone lab mix and when she hears a fight she comes in on it and goes wacky crazy. Certain things set her off and I always have to be on guard with her, otherwise she is the sweetest dog!

I have learned to be a better pack leader over the years and I am aware of every situation with my dogs now that could cause a fight.
Multiple females are more at risk to break out into a fight than males. I try to prevent and alpha female situation going on but my three big dogs seem to be leary of the food aggressive one and always keep there distance from her.

The best way to break up a fight my trainer said is to use an h2o fire extinguisher. I got one years ago but never used it. I feel it takes to long to react with it.

The best advice I can give is to keep a watchful eye out at all times and never leave the home with them loose together! It is a pain in the butt to put up with all of this but I love my dogs and they pretty much live in harmony with each other!
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 20,139,760 times
Reputation: 6482
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdna View Post
We're definitely making progress. They're used to clicker training and the clicker has been getting a lot of use to reinforce desirable behavior. I'm not expecting anything to suddenly be fixed overnight, but both dogs are being very relaxed with each other through the baby gate. I do close doors if I'm not sitting right with them, because I know the baby gate could be knocked or jumped over. They haven't seemed tempted to that, though.

Jack has been such a big help. He's an incredibly good boy.

The muzzles should be here today and we'll start getting them comfortable with those. I'm not going to put them together until we can use the muzzles. I will be much more comfortable then, with the possibility of them biting each other taken right out of the equation, and I don't want to jeopardize the dogs' success by injecting my own nervous energy into the situation. I know I would do that right now, no matter how hard I tried not to.

Abby went in for a dressing change today and she gets the drain out on Friday. She's healing well. My doctor is pretty confident that I won't need surgery on my hand, so it's just 4-6 weeks in a splint.
My Blizzard never did become comfortable wearing her muzzle, but after a week or so of constantly muzzling her everytime I left her alone, she just resigned herself to the new reality. She still did not like it one bit. The reason I chose a muzzle instead of separating my two dogs was because my sole purpose of getting a second dog was to keep the other dog company while I was not at home. So separating them would have defeated the purpose. With a muzzle on Blizzard both of my dogs could enjoy each other's company while I was away, and I did not have to worry about Blizzard starting another fight.

I wish you the best of luck with your dogs.
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Old 06-20-2012, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,850 posts, read 20,139,760 times
Reputation: 6482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondie621 View Post
Once they have a fight, there will be more, trust me on this one. I have had a few in the past 7 years.
I have 4 big female dogs. All were rescues and were older when I got them except for one, my oldest, she was 3 months and is the most docile of all.

My Princess pittie has some food aggression issues so I feed her in a gated room by herself until the others are done eating. I have to be careful when I am around food because she is always right there, almost guarding the space.
I have had a number of fights and many $$$ vet bills over the years. I also have a red zone lab mix and when she hears a fight she comes in on it and goes wacky crazy. Certain things set her off and I always have to be on guard with her, otherwise she is the sweetest dog!

I have learned to be a better pack leader over the years and I am aware of every situation with my dogs now that could cause a fight.
Multiple females are more at risk to break out into a fight than males. I try to prevent and alpha female situation going on but my three big dogs seem to be leary of the food aggressive one and always keep there distance from her.

The best way to break up a fight my trainer said is to use an h2o fire extinguisher. I got one years ago but never used it. I feel it takes to long to react with it.

The best advice I can give is to keep a watchful eye out at all times and never leave the home with them loose together! It is a pain in the butt to put up with all of this but I love my dogs and they pretty much live in harmony with each other!
My Blizzard also has food aggression issues. Guarding her bowl, growling at anyone or anything that approaches her food, etc. I feed my two dogs in two separate bowls (they share the same water bowl), but when Blizzard growls at Buddy while he is eating his food from his bowl, he stops eating his food and starts eating Blizzard's food from Blizzard's bowl. He not only ignores her aggression, but seems to go out of his way to provoke her.

Buddy and Blizzard resolved their issues about 4 years ago, and there has not been another fight since, thankfully. Blizzard may not like it, but after me as the "pack leader," Buddy is next in charge.
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