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Old 06-25-2012, 07:40 AM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,355 posts, read 2,087,746 times
Reputation: 2616

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
"The girls are getting used to wearing them" ? I guess my advice about excepting the reality that they are dogs did not fly with you.

I have a Rabbit hound that looks like a hyena. One aging Beagle...My daughter brings over her very young and extremely strong..a big goof of a mutt. He is a super muscular cross. American bull dog and Rotty ...He loves to leap and play- he's a tank.

The older dogs are slowly excepting him...The Beagle still complains loudly about his presence..My other dog who is a fixed male and older - cowers because he knows that the big young dog is stronger...once in a while he will attempt to guard his territory..and the older mutt will finally snap and challenge the big young dog.


I put a stop to it immediately - I grab the older dog by the collar and let him know I AM THE BOSS..not him,,and it is MY territory, not his...It's a case of power...being a male makes it easier than it would be for you.


The old dog is arrogant and does not like my authority..but he knows if he does not back off- I may give him a reason to fear me- I avoid that but I do get close to this happening.
Ummm...they're both girls. I have a boy, too. And, no thank you, I don't want your particular advice.
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Old 06-25-2012, 09:27 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 16,325,824 times
Reputation: 7582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
I put a stop to it immediately - I grab the older dog by the collar and let him know I AM THE BOSS..not him,,and it is MY territory, not his...It's a case of power...being a male makes it easier than it would be for you.


The old dog is arrogant and does not like my authority..but he knows if he does not back off- I may give him a reason to fear me- I avoid that but I do get close to this happening.
You really, really need to re-think your "power". Seriously.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:09 AM
 
Location: North Western NJ
6,591 posts, read 20,815,178 times
Reputation: 9586
is making use of my internal Mute button...
to the poster who suggested just "letting them fight it out" and that they will "resolve this themselves"

female on female dominance agression is not just fighting...
when males fight for the most part it is alot of show, hackles raised, teeth bared lots of noise and pinning and wrestling...but when all is said and done, GENERALLY males are more show than go...
females however WILL KILL EACHOTHER...when femals fight its not about noise, its not about "hey im bigger than you" its not about "the show" and when it comes down to it, if youve got 2 clashing dominant females neither will back down. most Serious dog wounds from fighting are from female/female dog fights.

i would NEVER EVER allow dog fights to continue on...im in charge in my hosue and its up to ME to take control (im not an "alpha dog" subscriber, ive worked with too many large carnvores to buy into it...but i am a "my house my rules" subscriber, there will be no fighting in my home...
however with females, its abslutly 100% imperative that that fight be ended IMEDIATLY or someone is going to be heading to the vet! females will tear each other to shreds if they feel they have to to make their point.

OP sounds like things are going well, your confidence is definatly going to play a part in this too so good idea on the muzzels, if yoru confident that will help them relax...sounds like your making progress, slow and steady wins the race
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:14 AM
 
Location: The Great State of Arkansas
5,981 posts, read 16,325,824 times
Reputation: 7582
And most people wounds are from assuming they are in control of a situation when they clearly are not, shouldn't be, shouldn't try to be.

I do NOT allow fights to go on and on, that's ridiculous. I do agree that it must stop immediately. There are usually signs, and if we miss 'em - well, it's Katie bar the door at that point...but grabbing a dog by the collar? Nope.

People make light of females fighting. This isn't about 9 year olds pulling each other's hair - this is serious, and it has to be witnessed to be believed. It's not something that can be scolded out or trained out once it has gone full throttle.

OP, kudos for taking the initiative and trying!
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:22 AM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,355 posts, read 2,087,746 times
Reputation: 2616
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxywench View Post
is making use of my internal Mute button...
to the poster who suggested just "letting them fight it out" and that they will "resolve this themselves"

female on female dominance agression is not just fighting...
when males fight for the most part it is alot of show, hackles raised, teeth bared lots of noise and pinning and wrestling...but when all is said and done, GENERALLY males are more show than go...
females however WILL KILL EACHOTHER...when femals fight its not about noise, its not about "hey im bigger than you" its not about "the show" and when it comes down to it, if youve got 2 clashing dominant females neither will back down. most Serious dog wounds from fighting are from female/female dog fights.

i would NEVER EVER allow dog fights to continue on...im in charge in my hosue and its up to ME to take control (im not an "alpha dog" subscriber, ive worked with too many large carnvores to buy into it...but i am a "my house my rules" subscriber, there will be no fighting in my home...
however with females, its abslutly 100% imperative that that fight be ended IMEDIATLY or someone is going to be heading to the vet! females will tear each other to shreds if they feel they have to to make their point.

OP sounds like things are going well, your confidence is definatly going to play a part in this too so good idea on the muzzels, if yoru confident that will help them relax...sounds like your making progress, slow and steady wins the race
Thanks. I feel like things are going very well. They're napping (side by side!) with their muzzles on right now. They even sit nicely when I bring the muzzles out, mostly because they think the muzzles are treat dispensers. They have been very affectionate with each other and seem to enjoy being together, instead of separated by the baby gate. I'm keeping them gated at night and at meal time, but they've been together with their muzzles on otherwise. Jack's having TPLO next week, so I'm very relieved that we have a peaceful system worked out.
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Old 06-25-2012, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,228,396 times
Reputation: 6487
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxywench View Post
is making use of my internal Mute button...
to the poster who suggested just "letting them fight it out" and that they will "resolve this themselves"

female on female dominance agression is not just fighting...
when males fight for the most part it is alot of show, hackles raised, teeth bared lots of noise and pinning and wrestling...but when all is said and done, GENERALLY males are more show than go...
females however WILL KILL EACHOTHER...when femals fight its not about noise, its not about "hey im bigger than you" its not about "the show" and when it comes down to it, if youve got 2 clashing dominant females neither will back down. most Serious dog wounds from fighting are from female/female dog fights.

i would NEVER EVER allow dog fights to continue on...im in charge in my hosue and its up to ME to take control (im not an "alpha dog" subscriber, ive worked with too many large carnvores to buy into it...but i am a "my house my rules" subscriber, there will be no fighting in my home...
however with females, its abslutly 100% imperative that that fight be ended IMEDIATLY or someone is going to be heading to the vet! females will tear each other to shreds if they feel they have to to make their point.

OP sounds like things are going well, your confidence is definatly going to play a part in this too so good idea on the muzzels, if yoru confident that will help them relax...sounds like your making progress, slow and steady wins the race
I agree. As the saying goes: "When males fight, it is about dominance. When females fight, it is to the death."
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:45 AM
 
1,004 posts, read 2,035,712 times
Reputation: 918
I love my males LOL
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Old 07-03-2012, 06:20 PM
 
Location: On the west side of the Tetons
1,355 posts, read 2,087,746 times
Reputation: 2616
Guess who are hanging out together, with no muzzles, being buddies and comforting their brother after his surgery?! I'll still separate them around food and at night, and I'm not going to leave them together unsupervised, but my dog family is back to normal right now.
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Ohio
15,164 posts, read 13,432,307 times
Reputation: 20600
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdna View Post
Guess who are hanging out together, with no muzzles, being buddies and comforting their brother after his surgery?! I'll still separate them around food and at night, and I'm not going to leave them together unsupervised, but my dog family is back to normal right now.
I am so happy that you are all a happy family again!

{glad you aren't leaving them alone unsupervised too....better safe than sorry}

How is your hand?
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:19 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,228,396 times
Reputation: 6487
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdna View Post
Guess who are hanging out together, with no muzzles, being buddies and comforting their brother after his surgery?! I'll still separate them around food and at night, and I'm not going to leave them together unsupervised, but my dog family is back to normal right now.
I hate to say this, but your peace will not last until you address the problem. If there is any kind of food aggression you need to let them know that it is not behavior you will tolerate. Muzzles and separation my resolve your issue with them fighting, but it does not address why they fight in the first place.

Also, a lot of females are very vocal, and just because they growl it does not mean they are being aggressive. Most of the time they growl to let the other dog know they are invading their space. Or they could be admonishing the other dog, or because they want to play.

Watch their hackles closely. If you see the fur stand up on the back of their neck, then you know they are serious and a fight may be imminent. If their fur on the back of her neck stays flat, then you know she is just vocalizing and has no intent to be aggressive.

I always tried to treat both of my females equally, giving them both treats at the same time, and giving the same amount of attention. So that neither dog felt like I was favoring one over the other. Upon further reflection I am not certain that was the best choice. Perhaps I should have identified one of the females as the Alpha and treated the other female as the subordinate. That would have established a clear hierarchy. By treating them equally I may have invited one to try to be dominant over the other.
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