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Old 07-16-2012, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,040,961 times
Reputation: 3566

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Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
^^Yes.....



yes ... you are absolutely right.... it is his money to do with what he wishes....

but the op came on here asking if that much money for what is basically a pet and companion animal is insane.... and in many instances it is....
It depends, I know many folks, that money is not the issue.
Many of them spent 1-4k for a pet with no intent to show or work the dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
i should clarify a bit, though.... I am NOT opposed to people buying a purebred whatever if that is what their heart is set on or if that is the breed that works for whatever they want it for.... but ONLY if said dog is purchased from a reputable breeder.... and let's face it.... most people do not have the patience or energy to do that.... too much work to research.... too much work to pass the breeder's hurdles, too much time to wait for the litter to be bred and raised to the proper age.... they want a puppy and they want it NOW.... so the byb and miller win again......
We are nether a BYB or a mill,
We have pups available year around, IF you wish a particular pup from a particular mating the breeder is planing you will have to wait for your pup.

Lets face it, the hurdles are not that hard to get over.

How can we have pups year around, we have a network of folks who own our dogs that have also titled their dogs.(females)
These females are not in kennels but in peoples homes.
They breed with our males.
This gives us hand raised pups that are socialized. At 8wk old they bring the litter in to be sold.


Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
and finally, there were, i think, FOUR, younger, purebred labs on the transport i drove yesterday.... 2 black ones, a chocolate and a yellow.... all absolutely beautiful, most pretty well behaved, especially when one considers they were ALL KILL SHELTER RESCUES......
Jut because they were at a kill shelter does not make them bad dogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sugarsugar View Post

I am probably missing what was meant by "limited".
Limited Registration means that the dog is registered but no litters produced by that dog are eligible for registration.

Chapter 3, Section 4A of the AKC's Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline states the following: "Limited Registration may be requested for a dog when application for individual registration of the dog is submitted, provided the application, together with a request for such limitation, is filed by the owner(s) of the litter at birth.

No offspring of a dog for which Limited Registration has been granted is eligible for registration. Each registration certificate for such dog shall carry notice of the limitation, and the limitation shall continue, regardless of any change of ownership, unless and until the owner(s) of the litter at birth shall apply to AKC for removal of the limitation."

A dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show. It is eligible, however, to be entered in any other licensed or member event. These events include: Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog.

Limited Registration is determined by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) check the Limited box on the AKC Dog Registration Application.

Limited Registration certificates are white with an orange border; the Full Registration certificate is white with a purple border.

Limited Registration can be changed to Full Registration only by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) will need to obtain the Application to Revoke Limited Status. That form will then need to be completed and sent to our Raleigh address with the processing fee. After processing, we will send a Full Registration certificate to the dog's owner.

Limited Registration helps breeders protect their breeding programs. If breeders do not want puppies used for breeding purposes, they can request the Limited Registration option for those puppies

.http://www.akc.org/reg/limitedreg.cfm
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:07 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,763,689 times
Reputation: 11458
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
It depends, I know many folks, that money is not the issue.
Many of them spent 1-4k for a pet with no intent to show or work the dog.



We are nether a BYB or a mill,
We have pups available year around, IF you wish a particular pup from a particular mating the breeder is planing you will have to wait for your pup.

Lets face it, the hurdles are not that hard to get over.

How can we have pups year around, we have a network of folks who own our dogs that have also titled their dogs.(females)
These females are not in kennels but in peoples homes.
They breed with our males.
This gives us hand raised pups that are socialized. At 8wk old they bring the litter in to be sold.




Jut because they were at a kill shelter does not make them bad dogs.



........ snipped .........
Snofarmer, I have no issue at all with your breeding operation, because by all accounts, you are one of the all-too-rare reputable breeders.... i bet you vet your potential buyers pretty closely, yes?? and contract to take the pups or dogs back at any time if the approved purchaser can not keep them, for whatever reason....

and you made my point EXACTLY.... these were beautiful, purebred labs that through no fault of their own, wound up in a high kill shelter.... and in the limited amount of time i was able to spend with them, they were GREAT dogs..... keeping in mind, that a transport can be a highly stressful environment.... especially one as large as mine was Saturday....
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,040,961 times
Reputation: 3566
We try and it is a lot of work.
I'm just trying to show that you can find ethical breeders.
We do take returns from the unwanted to folks passing away and no one is able to care for them.
Some find homes, some get old in a kennel which is hard to watch.
But what's the answer? the other option is to destroy them.

I hate puppy-mills also.

Yes, great dogs can be found at shelters.
90% of the time it is the humans fault that there is a problem and the problem is with the human.

I don't have an answer. But pushing rescued dogs or pups just from a reputable breeder is not going to do it alone, it's a mind set and it can be hard to change peoples beliefs or mind set..

To many people do not put much of a value on a dogs life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
Snofarmer, I have no issue at all with your breeding operation, because by all accounts, you are one of the all-too-rare reputable breeders.... i bet you vet your potential buyers pretty closely, yes?? and contract to take the pups or dogs back at any time if the approved purchaser can not keep them, for whatever reason....

and you made my point EXACTLY.... these were beautiful, purebred labs that through no fault of their own, wound up in a high kill shelter.... and in the limited amount of time i was able to spend with them, they were GREAT dogs..... keeping in mind, that a transport can be a highly stressful environment.... especially one as large as mine was Saturday....
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Old 07-16-2012, 02:42 PM
 
501 posts, read 1,105,500 times
Reputation: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post

Limited Registration means that the dog is registered but no litters produced by that dog are eligible for registration.

Chapter 3, Section 4A of the AKC's Rules Applying to Registration and Discipline states the following: "Limited Registration may be requested for a dog when application for individual registration of the dog is submitted, provided the application, together with a request for such limitation, is filed by the owner(s) of the litter at birth.

No offspring of a dog for which Limited Registration has been granted is eligible for registration. Each registration certificate for such dog shall carry notice of the limitation, and the limitation shall continue, regardless of any change of ownership, unless and until the owner(s) of the litter at birth shall apply to AKC for removal of the limitation."

A dog registered with an AKC Limited Registration shall be ineligible to be entered in a breed competition in a licensed or member dog show. It is eligible, however, to be entered in any other licensed or member event. These events include: Obedience, Tracking, Field Trials, Hunting Tests, Herding, Lure Coursing, Agility and Earthdog.

Limited Registration is determined by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) check the Limited box on the AKC Dog Registration Application.

Limited Registration certificates are white with an orange border; the Full Registration certificate is white with a purple border.

Limited Registration can be changed to Full Registration only by the litter owner(s). The litter owner(s) will need to obtain the Application to Revoke Limited Status. That form will then need to be completed and sent to our Raleigh address with the processing fee. After processing, we will send a Full Registration certificate to the dog's owner.

Limited Registration helps breeders protect their breeding programs. If breeders do not want puppies used for breeding purposes, they can request the Limited Registration option for those puppies

.Limited Registration
I am probably having an old lady moment, but what I was asking about was your comment that a dog "without papers" (or sterilized) would be "limited" (not about limits on an existing registration or the ability for offspring of a dog with limited registration to ever get its papers - a dog can be without papers for several reasons besides that).

But it appears that in either case, the only limit would be the ability to show in competitions sanctioned by that registering body - the AKC. Or to get "papers" if the reason the dog is without them is that they are the offspring of a limited registration dog.

Otherwise, any dog without AKC papers can compete in any other type of competition that doesn't require papers, of which there are plenty from which to choose. Makes sense - that is how it was in the horse show world as well. Breed show = papers required. Other competitions = not required.

Does a dog need to be intact as well in order to show in an AKC breed show? Didn't have to in my horse discipline (ie I showed both mares and geldings in A rated shows, though not in classes that were intact specific like a stallion class).
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: East coast-New England
1,638 posts, read 1,776,065 times
Reputation: 3538
Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rob View Post
I dont see what the big deal is here? It's his money and his time? If he doesn't want a pound dog, that is his perogative
^^ Agree with this. It irks me when people make others feel bad for wanting a purebred. You always have to hear "get a rescue, adopt at the shelter". I am 46 years old. I have been into dogs since I was a kid. I have certain breeds that I really like, and I have done countless research on those breeds and breeders. And..I have bought those dogs over the years. It is what I like, and I only buy from breeders that are established and have a good reputation/policy. Breeders like that arent hard to find if you do your research. And that is key...doing your research. And yes..a well bred, healthy purebred dog from a good breeder who stands behind his/her dogs will probably run you $1000-$1,500 or more depending on the breed and what you are looking to do with the dog. Pets..yeah expect to pay close to a grand.

Now, I have also owned mutts. Mutts are nice dogs too. But, I prefer certain breeds because of their total package, which is looks/temperment/size/trainability, etc. I know what I like, and neither I nor anyone else should be made to feel bad about it. I dont want a mutt. I want a purebred. Period. That is my choice, and does not make me a bad person. When it comes to dogs..I want specific breeds. It's what I like, and what I chose to feed, raise, train, and care for, and that is nobody's business.

Now, when it comes to cats, I am not as picky on breed, etc. I have two cats that I adopted from the shelter. I will probably always get my cats from the shelter because that is my choice. For dogs,I just prefer purebreds. Cats I can adopt. Most important thing, they are all loved and well cared for.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Southern, NJ
5,414 posts, read 5,384,151 times
Reputation: 7481
We lost our gorgeous Samoyed 3 months ago today at the age of 8 from a blood infection and 2 heart attacks. Her unexpected passing has been a deep loss to my husband and I. We bought her from a Breeder at birth for $800. We thought that this was an acceptable price at the time. I have been researching many sites since we plan on getting another purebred Samoyed in Spring. This time I am looking into the bloodline. I realize that nothing will prevent sickness or disease, but I want to try and get a pure bred with little flaws in her line. The Breeder that we have picked is in Ct. & their line starts at $1,600 for a "pet" and $450.00 to ship her to us. She will be a pet and not a show dog. I receive emails on a daily basis for Samoyeds starting at $350.00, and after losing ours at such a young age who had the best Vets, food & supplements etc. I want to try an insure we will be getting a very good bloodline. I will save up the money because this is where I want to get our pet and it will give me peace of mind. There aren't guarantees of course, but at least I will know that we did the best we could to try and prevent an early passing, & to me this is money well spent. kelsie
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Northern MN
3,869 posts, read 13,040,961 times
Reputation: 3566
kelsie,

sorry for your loss.

Disease can pop up in any wood pile.

Did you contact the breeder you got your dog from?
Was there a warranty covering genetic flaws?

Most all reputable breeders will give you a replacement of equal value.
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Old 12-11-2012, 10:07 AM
 
1,004 posts, read 2,025,086 times
Reputation: 918
Kelsie, pretty much what Snofarmer said reputable breeders will replace a pup or refund you the purchase price. Your doing the right thing with the bloodline research. Talk to owners who purchased dogs from a breeder your interested in. Breeders are more than happy to give you referrals.

Good luck in your search!
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:10 AM
 
Location: N. Raleigh
701 posts, read 1,337,360 times
Reputation: 1094
snofarmer,

I appreciate you taking time to bring knowledge to this board. There are far too few reputable breeders in the world and I am very thankful you are willing to share your expertise with this group.

I paid a very small fortune for (#1) temperament, (#2) genetics/pedigree, (#3) and health/guarantee. I've never heard of a reputable breeder who commands less than $1000, which is on the low end if you ask me. I shopped for over a year for a breeder who met my demands for a GSD and was very fortunate to find one. It seems I may know two now (snofarmer). My investment has paid off in full with great returns and huge continued dividends in temperament and work ethic. She (my GSD) makes our local police dogs look bad and as a bonus makes a very loving family companion. Nothing in the world shakes her nerves and she is willing to work and go above and beyond any request. I am not a gambling man and am not willing to go through the heartache guessing which one will suit my families needs at the rescue. It takes a special person to take in a stranger and I must say I'm not that person, nor do I want to be.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Southern, NJ
5,414 posts, read 5,384,151 times
Reputation: 7481
Quote:
Originally Posted by snofarmer View Post
kelsie,

sorry for your loss.

Disease can pop up in any wood pile.

Did you contact the breeder you got your dog from?
Was there a warranty covering genetic flaws?

Most all reputable breeders will give you a replacement of equal value.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WildnFree View Post
Kelsie, pretty much what Snofarmer said reputable breeders will replace a pup or refund you the purchase price. Your doing the right thing with the bloodline research. Talk to owners who purchased dogs from a breeder your interested in. Breeders are more than happy to give you referrals.

Good luck in your search!
Thank you so much snofarmer & WildnFree I did contact her Breeder and she assured me that there was nothing genetic. She is no longer Breeding but doing rescues. After my post, I went back to read all of the others and contacted Tabbcat (post 96) she has a beautiful Sammie that looked just like ours. She very nicely sent me her Breeder information.

Our girl had issues from the time she was 1 yr. old. Started with allergies, she fell on the kitchen floor and dislocated her knee cap, stomach issues (we put her on Solid Gold Holistic Blendz Food after that). She had regular Acupuncture and Laser treatments for her leg. She had a Holistic Vet and when she went for a treatment last Feb. 13, he looked at us and said she had Bone Cancer and had 4-6 mos. to live. He said he felt it in her leg. To say we were devastated was an understatement. We took her the next day to a Specialist for a second opinion. He took X-Rays & Bloodwork, which came back negative. Now with 2 different opinions we sent everything out to the Un. of Colorado, Oncology Dept., they concurred No BC. In July she had a Tumor (the size of a softball) removed from her leg, the Path. report came back NO BC. She did not have any feeling in her paw and was walking on her knuckle. She went in for surgery on 9/11 to have her leg removed, had a massive blood infection and 2 heart attacks. And went to rainbow bridge. It is 3 mos. today and I still feel like my heart has been wrenched out. She was such a love and gave us unconditional love for too short of time. I have nothing against shelters, our first Sammie was from one I paid $25 and she lived 14 1/2 yrs. This death has hurt us so much we just want to try and get the best bloodline possible.

Thank you for your nice responses to me, when I go out to her grave to lite her candle I will tell her that I am lighting it in your names. kelsie
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