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jasper, even under the new SD laws, the dog does NOT have to come from a service dog school/training group...
and NEVER EVER has a therapy dog, emotioanl support animal ECT been given public acess rights, ONLY task trained service dogs have public acess rights, always has been always will be. a service dog can help ANY disabled person, however they must be TASK TRAINED to be a service dog...
You ARE right about the amount of hours anyone puts into PROPERLY training aservice dog...while the basics can be trained easily, bomb proofing a dog to take it from "in training" to "service dog" is indeed 1000's of hours or work, socilization, desensitization, energy ect...
however under the ADA (even the new rules) ANY dog SERVING a disablied person (and by serving i mean they must be specifically trained to do tasks SPECIFICALLY to help that specific disabled person with thier disability) no matter what breed, what the persons disabilty, or whether it comes form aprofessional school or not, has full public acess rights.
however people need to be very clear on TASK training...
this doesnt mean "my dog sits when i tell him" or "my dog knows how to give hugs and that makes me feel better" ect...
they need to be specific TASKS that help their disabled owner.
ie a dog trained to respond to a seizure, or a dog trained to brace, or a dog trained to intterupt ect..but these tasks MUST be related to the persons disability.
but i do agree on everything else, form the drs letter to the 1000's of hours of training, a TRUE service dog is bomb proof, they NEEVR stop to sniff innapropriatly unless told, they "never" make a mistake, and it can take YEARS to get a dog to that point...
I would NEVER consider a dog "out of training" untill its at least 3 yrs old and has been working publically for at least 1 whole year.
I think we're lost in the woods on "service dog" versus "therapy/support dog".
I'll just relate a personal experience. I worked in a restaurant where a man insisted on bringing his dog inside, although there was a courtyard with plenty of seating outside. He insisted - "service dog" - well, the owner finally "insisted" on seeing some kind of paperwork that indicated this was a service dog (it wasn't your standard service dog breed or even a mid-sized Heinz 57, it was a very small designer dog of some sort). Problem was, I think this man probably needed the dog, he was prone to severe anxiety - but other diners didn't know that and probably didn't care either. All they knew was there was a dog in the eatery accompanied by someone who appeared perfectly healthy, although somewhat nervous. Next thing we knew, every socialite for 3 miles was wanting to bring Fluffy in her purse during lunch dates because of this gentleman.
He was unable to produce any paperwork at all....and thus he and his dog were barred from eating inside. He may have had PTSD, as claimed. He may have been prone to anxiety attacks. He may have needed this dog's companionship. He may have been a lot of things except the holder of some type of certificate saying this dog was a SERVICE DOG and had undergone some type of screening or training, undergoing training, or whatever. Basically, it was a lap dog as far as we could tell.
It turned into a big mess. He filed a complaint, counter complaints were filed - in the end, no paperwork and no service dog designation. It was a huge headache. While everyone was sympathetic to his emotional needs, the bottom line is whether the dog is working and is designated as such. You can pick a true service dog out....they look like little Marines, not distracted, always "on". And that type of single mindedness doesn't come without intense training.
I love that "In training" idea that foxywench (I think it was) mentioned. Slap a vest on the dog that says "in training". You might also bring a copy of the CGC test certificate with you and maybe an advanced obedience class certificate (most trainers give out a certificate when you complete the class) and a note from the doctor probably wouldn't hurt either. Then again, there's going to be idiot blankety blanks on rare occasions that want to make life difficult.
I been asked with Katie ...Is she a service Dog.... All I said was Yes BUT never except by kids asked what a SD is & what she does for me. My neighbor told me she was questioned about her small dog she told them Unless I have a sezure she wont do nothing... She wasnt going to have one to demo even if she could! Mgr of eatery said ok thats fione they had a nice meal! Even treat for the dog LOL
I Can understand the changes...To many Healthy people passing dogs off as SD....
Sam I Am, by asking for paperworkproving the dog was a service dog the manager was actually breaking the law...
the fact that the guy oculdnt produce paperwork form his dr during the court procedings "perscribing" a service dog says he probably had just decided he "needed one" and "salf trained" without his drs knowledge...
BUT, there is NO FORMAL TRAINING REQUIRED and as a "gate keeper" you CANNOT ask for proof of disability or "proof" (paperwork) claiming the dog is a service dog.
a service dog doesnt need to have any kind of documentation, id, vest ect...you as a gate keeper are supposed to simply belive the person if they say its a service dog UNLESS the dog is acting in such a way that would suggest otherwise (ie barking innapropriatly, snapping at people, ect...
had the man shown up to court with even a simple drs note saying a service dog was suggested that place could have found themselves paying some serious fines.
and MANY small breeds make excelent service dogs, some of the best hearing dogs ive met are chihuhauas and poodles, some of the best psychiatric service dogs are small dogs that are easily transported, if it wasnt for my personal need for some assistance with tasks that a small breed cant do (ie bracing) i would absolutly train my next crested as my full time service dog as small breeds are easier in many ways as service dogs, they take up less space, shed less (even if heavy shedders lol) ect...
BUT i do agree that one can tell a pet dog from a service dog (and even a pet form in training and in training from a service dog) now dogs are NOT robots, ive met many a eclently trained service dog whll once in a while stop to take a sniff, or pay just a little too much attention to a passer by...HOWEVER, theres a big difference between a pets behaviour and a service dogs behaviour that usually makes it easy to tell when someones just not quite telling the truth.
i can tell you right now...
you take one look at me and youd have aboslutly NO idea i am disabled...im arkward in public situations and nervous but beyond that...
you cant see my heart condition, nor can you see my seizure disorer, you cant see the fused disk in my lower back or the fact that im prone to random bouts of OCD, you cant see my brain and all the chemical inblances going on up there that make it incredibly dificult to leve my house to even do my grocery shopping thanks to severe anxiety and frequent bouts with severe depression...
and youd NEVER look at my funny little mostly hairless dog and think "hey thats a service dog..." shed behave herself, avoid contact with anyoen that showed interst and be 100% focused on me...BUT just from looking at her youd never for a second think "hey a service dog" because she looks nothing like any of the commonly used breeds.
Last edited by foxywench; 07-05-2012 at 04:05 PM..
My husband has a service dog for PTSD. Here is what we did:
-We already had the dog before the incident that triggered the PTSD (we actually had 2 dogs). Since we did not have the space or resources to add an additional dog to our household, we trained one of our existing dogs who already had the appropriate temperament.
-We took the dog to advanced training classes (not specifically for service dogs, just your typical advanced training).
-We got him the CGC certificate.
-We trained the dog one on one with a professional dog trainer who is also familiar with service dogs since he himself needs one for mobility issues.
-We spent hours and hours training on our own.
-We got paperwork from the doctor including information on what the dog does and why he is necessary to cope with the disability.
-We got our dog registered in our local county as a service animal.
You do not have to get a puppy from a school, but it takes many hours to train your dog. My husband spent hours taking the dog places, teaching him appropriate behaviors, etc. In the future we will probably try to go through a training organization because it is very difficult work.
Also, for your dog to legally be a service dog he/she has to perform functions specifically related to the disability. My husband's dog does the following tasks: gives a short bark to alert of anything "strange" (a person coming up from behind, an odd noise, an odd object, etc); blocks people from getting too close by placing himself between my husband and another nearby person, stands behind my husband so people don't approach from behind, stays with him if he has a panic attack, snaps him out of a panic attack through contact/licking/nosing, and carries medication. The dog does these tasks on his own so he is very different from a therapy animal that simply provides comfort.
Sam I Am, by asking for paperworkproving the dog was a service dog the manager was actually breaking the law...
the fact that the guy oculdnt produce paperwork form his dr during the court procedings "perscribing" a service dog says he probably had just decided he "needed one" and "salf trained" without his drs knowledge...
BUT, there is NO FORMAL TRAINING REQUIRED and as a "gate keeper" you CANNOT ask for proof of disability or "proof" (paperwork) claiming the dog is a service dog.
I had no idea - thank you for the info.
I have one totally innocent question, though - how do airlines keep people from proclaiming their 160 lbs. Mastiff is a service animal and having it fly in-cabin since, other than service dogs, anything larger than a teacup is pretty much prohibited? Well, you know what I mean - any carrier that is bigger than a certain size has to go in the hold. I do understand that many disabilities, both physical and mental, are not visible and no one questioned that this man is disabled in some way. If you talk to him for 5 minutes it's obvious. I have no problem with that, but I just figured there's a line of demarcation somewhere.
Just asking - this is an interesting topic. I truly thought there must have to be some sort of certification or card or something.
Just for those interested in dogs, and working dogs...I included this new "Dogs at Work" link...for stamps. Love it!
FYI on the policy regarding therapy dogs...I do know it, backwards and fowards...for many reasons I won't get into on this forum...Trust me on this...a dog needs certification from a school, especially a PTSD dog for a veteran. If a veteran wants a PTSD dog, he goes to his primary care doctor at the VA, and requests a consult for the dog, that way the dog is covered for medical expenses, as a prosthetic item. But, the dog has to be approved, by his doctor, for the benefits....he works with mental health, and his primary care doctor to have the paperwork filled out to go to a school, that trains therapy dogs, an "approved" school...
He does not just get a dog, and say it is his "therapy dog". Does not work that way...
Last edited by jasper12; 07-06-2012 at 08:23 AM..
Reason: edit.
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