U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-06-2012, 04:42 PM
 
13,140 posts, read 20,709,679 times
Reputation: 35314

Advertisements

This thread is a glaring example of why not everyone should be a dog owner. For the sake of the dog, stop the purchase, please.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-06-2012, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,323,595 times
Reputation: 2392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Well, unfortunately, dh has already purchased the dog for dd. This was a decision dh made and I'm just along for the ride. I wasn't planning on being part of the dog's training but I'm thinking dh may not know as much as he thinks (he grew up with dogs but they were working dogs. I grew up with dogs that chew everything and pee where they shouldn't.)

At this point, what I need is advice to make the best of this situation as it's not changing so advising a different breed or not getting a dog at all isn't helpful. I need to figure out how to make the best of this situation.

As to barking, I'm thinking the dog will be debarked as I can't have him barking at neighbors all day and from what I read here, I can't keep him in the house all day. Nice suggestion on doggy day care but I can't afford a day care bill for the dog. I never realized that you had to have someone home all day with a dog.

I'm thinking this is going to be a miserable experience for all but it's a done deal. I was hoping it could turn out decent but I see it can't. There is no way dh is going to tell dd she can't have this puppy. I guess this one will be chalked up to life experience.

Thanks for the advice. Too bad it just leaves me depressed. I was hoping learning about puppies would help. Instead it just confirms that this is a bad decision but it's already been made. Dh is convinced that the dog will be fine.

I'm going back to my orignal plan and just going along for the ride. I'll let them do what they're going to do and stay out of it. Hopefully, both of them will learn a lesson. I'm sad to say that that sounds like the best that can come out of this.

Thanks anyway.
I'm sorry, but if you are talking about getting a dog you haven't even adopted yet debarked, leaving it outside all day, and not putting in the time and effort it takes to teach and train it, then suck up the purchase price, deal with the family fall out and don't adopt the dog. I have two Australian Cattle Dogs, another high energy and high intelligence breed - they are wonderful dogs but they take a lot of commitment, consistency and work, especially during the puppy stage. It is not fair to the poor dog for you to use it as a life lesson for your family members. It is not this dog's fault that this "bad decision has already been made." Unmake it and let the humans in your family deal with the consequences, not the dog.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-06-2012, 09:02 PM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,296,642 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I'm sorry, but if you are talking about getting a dog you haven't even adopted yet debarked, leaving it outside all day, and not putting in the time and effort it takes to teach and train it, then suck up the purchase price, deal with the family fall out and don't adopt the dog. I have two Australian Cattle Dogs, another high energy and high intelligence breed - they are wonderful dogs but they take a lot of commitment, consistency and work, especially during the puppy stage. It is not fair to the poor dog for you to use it as a life lesson for your family members. It is not this dog's fault that this "bad decision has already been made." Unmake it and let the humans in your family deal with the consequences, not the dog.
I totally agree. Also, if this dog is for your teenage daughters, what will happen to the dog when your teens move out in a few years? This is a dog, not an inanimate object.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,657,112 times
Reputation: 14582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorthy View Post
I totally agree. Also, if this dog is for your teenage daughters, what will happen to the dog when your teens move out in a few years? This is a dog, not an inanimate object.
As I said this is between dh and dd. The dog will belong to dd and will go with her when she moves out. I'm not going to stop her from taking her dog with her.

There will be a time when she's in grad school and may not be able to have the dog with her, and then the dog will stay with us. The dog is as much for dh as it is for dd. I suspect that when dd does move out with the dog, dh will get another one.

Seriously, I came here for help. Telling me to stop the sale isn't going to work because dh has declared that you're all full of crap. He is not changing his mind. It would be very nice if someone were willing to offer helpful suggestions. While I can't stop dh from getting this dog, I can have a hand in its training. Telling me to stop the sale doesn't help one iota.

Please continue jumping on the "You should stop this sale" bandwagon for whatever pleasure it gives you because this isn't happening and it doesn't help. I wanted to make the best of this situation and I can now see asking for help here was a total waste of my time (except for some of the early advice and I thank the people who took the time to try and offer helpful suggestions. I'm going to do my best to train the puppy well within my limitations. We'll see how well it goes.).

Thanks for nothing. Have fun beating a dead horse. You seem to like it.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 07-07-2012 at 06:40 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 06:45 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 30,657,112 times
Reputation: 14582
Quote:
Originally Posted by eastwesteastagain View Post
I'm sorry, but if you are talking about getting a dog you haven't even adopted yet debarked, leaving it outside all day, and not putting in the time and effort it takes to teach and train it, then suck up the purchase price, deal with the family fall out and don't adopt the dog. I have two Australian Cattle Dogs, another high energy and high intelligence breed - they are wonderful dogs but they take a lot of commitment, consistency and work, especially during the puppy stage. It is not fair to the poor dog for you to use it as a life lesson for your family members. It is not this dog's fault that this "bad decision has already been made." Unmake it and let the humans in your family deal with the consequences, not the dog.
Well, I'm told I can't leave it in all day so the alternative is leaving it out all day.

All of the breeders dogs are debarked. They seem no worse for the wear.

UGH. I am willing to put in the time to train it. That's why I came here asking for advice. Unfortunately, all I'm getting is bashed because it makes other people feel superior. Whatever.

As to this being a life lesson. If it's as much of a lost cause as everyone here thinks, that's what it will be. It is what it is.

I do not have the power to stop the sale. I only have the power to contribute to the dog's training. Since people here don't seem to want to help with that, I'm done. Your self edifying bashing helps no one on my end. Not me, not the dog and not my family. If it's hopeless, then it's hopeless. I was hoping to find solutions but I guess there are none to be found here.

Have fun beating a dead horse. I won't be returning to this thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,323,595 times
Reputation: 2392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
As I said this is between dh and dd. The dog will belong to dd and will go with her when she moves out. I'm not going to stop her from taking her dog with her.

There will be a time when she's in grad school and may not be able to have the dog with her, and then the dog will stay with us. The dog is as much for dh as it is for dd. I suspect that when dd does move out with the dog, dh will get another one.

Seriously, I came here for help. Telling me to stop the sale isn't going to work because dh has declared that you're all full of crap. He is not changing his mind. It would be very nice if someone were willing to offer helpful suggestions. While I can't stop dh from getting this dog, I can have a hand in its training. Telling me to stop the sale doesn't help one iota.

Please continue jumping on the "You should stop this sale" bandwagon for whatever pleasure it gives you because this isn't happening and it doesn't help. I wanted to make the best of this situation and I can now see asking for help here was a total waste of my time (except for some of the early advice and I think the people who took the time to try and offer helpful suggestions. I'm going to do my best to train the puppy well within my limitations. We'll see how well it goes.).

Thanks for nothing. Have fun beating a deae horse. You seem to like it.
Consistency between family members on whatever behavior is being trained- have a white board, note on the fridge, whatever to keep everyone on the same page with how you should each respond to a behavior that is being trained. All four of you must be on the same page at the same time if you want the puppy to learn the context in which behaviors are expected.

Figure out if you are crate training, consider baby gates if you don't want the puppy to have free reign over the house while work/school hours are in progress.

Figure out a schedule of care - Two walks per day may not cut it for a high energy breed. Lots of running around time will cut down on destructive chewing - that tends to happen when dogs are bored or stressed. Provide appropriate chew alternatives. Australian Shepards are intelligent - make play time stimulating.

A puppy training class a month after you get the dog is a start, but I would talk to your vet, local pet store, or local dog breed social group about training resources you can access now in person. There are a ton of amateur/hobby behaviorists who know the basics of dog training. You have already received good book resources.

Puppies, like babies, need to be taught what is expected of them. You are getting a high intelligence and loyal breed - the puppy will want to please you. Reinforce the behaviors you want to see every time until they "stick" then move to intermittent reinforcement until the behaviors become routine. Use a calm deep voice when training commands - no yelling and above all no hitting.

If there are behaviors you don't like, think about what YOU can do to change the environmental circumstances that led to the behavior. Dogs can't tell you they are stressed, confused or unhappy. Alleviate the underlying circumstances, you will get rid of the behavior.

As for your rant, I am not sure what you expected when you posted that your solution to a dog barking is to surgically intervene rather than train or make adjustments to the family schedule. Nor do I care what your husband's reaction is, although I suggest you should get on the same page with HIM about training over checking internet resources for guidance. I hope you have reconsidered the debarking - it solves nothing of the underlying problem or circumstances and is IMO cruel. Trust me, I derive no pleasure at all at the idea that you plan to tolerate this puppy, are not personally interested or invested enough to take the time and effort to train it properly, and are considering something that is in fact NOT a done deal as etched in stone, even if it means an innocent puppy suffers in the process. It is NOT this dog's fault that your home is the one it is being adopted into. If you want a different type of response, perhaps you can adjust your thinking about what it means to own a dog.

Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 07-07-2012 at 08:04 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 07:03 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,323,595 times
Reputation: 2392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Well, I'm told I can't leave it in all day so the alternative is leaving it out all day.

All of the breeders dogs are debarked. They seem no worse for the wear.

UGH. I am willing to put in the time to train it. That's why I came here asking for advice. Unfortunately, all I'm getting is bashed because it makes other people feel superior. Whatever.

As to this being a life lesson. If it's as much of a lost cause as everyone here thinks, that's what it will be. It is what it is.

I do not have the power to stop the sale. I only have the power to contribute to the dog's training. Since people here don't seem to want to help with that, I'm done. Your self edifying bashing helps no one on my end. Not me, not the dog and not my family. If it's hopeless, then it's hopeless. I was hoping to find solutions but I guess there are none to be found here.

Have fun beating a dead horse. I won't be returning to this thread.
See my PP for specific suggestions. Superiority has nothing to do with anything, people are "bashing" some of your proposed interventions. I question your breeder's reputation if all of his/her dogs are debarked. People are responding to the content of your posts, and suggesting you change your attitude about dog ownership. It is not hopeless but the puppy's behavior is going to be a direct reflection of how well your family trains him or her. If there is a problem, look to yourselves to figure out what needs to be done differently, don't blame the dog.

ETA: you can save your UGH and your head slaps. I'm sorry you don't like what you are hearing. There are plenty of ways to train a puppy, as is evidenced by the suggestions on this thread - figure out how to implement them or don't get the dog, is what posters are telling you. Trust me, my response would be the same to any poster who posted the content that you did.

Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 07-07-2012 at 08:06 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 07:25 AM
 
4,267 posts, read 5,296,642 times
Reputation: 3579
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
As I said this is between dh and dd. The dog will belong to dd and will go with her when she moves out. I'm not going to stop her from taking her dog with her.

There will be a time when she's in grad school and may not be able to have the dog with her, and then the dog will stay with us. The dog is as much for dh as it is for dd. I suspect that when dd does move out with the dog, dh will get another one.

Seriously, I came here for help. Telling me to stop the sale isn't going to work because dh has declared that you're all full of crap. He is not changing his mind. It would be very nice if someone were willing to offer helpful suggestions. While I can't stop dh from getting this dog, I can have a hand in its training. Telling me to stop the sale doesn't help one iota.

Please continue jumping on the "You should stop this sale" bandwagon for whatever pleasure it gives you because this isn't happening and it doesn't help. I wanted to make the best of this situation and I can now see asking for help here was a total waste of my time (except for some of the early advice and I thank the people who took the time to try and offer helpful suggestions. I'm going to do my best to train the puppy well within my limitations. We'll see how well it goes.).

Thanks for nothing. Have fun beating a dead horse. You seem to like it.
You're mistaken if you believe this gives me pleasure. My concerns lies with the dog. Talk of debarking and making the dog an outside only dog in Michigan of all places sounds cruel. If your family is dead set on getting this dog then my advice is to open your heart to this cute and smart little pup that is about to become a member of your family. Go to training and bond with him or her. Go into this with a positive attitude and an open heart and you may be surprised to find yourself falling in love with this sweet little dog and enjoying taking care of him or her.

Last edited by Dorthy; 07-07-2012 at 07:50 AM.. Reason: spelling
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 07:29 AM
 
1,181 posts, read 2,573,034 times
Reputation: 1782
Actually it is not unusual for herding dog show breeders to have the dogs debarked (often due to neighbor complaints) so that is not an indication either way about the breeder's qualifications. And, no, I'm not advocating debarking in any way although I have had 2 dogs that were partially debarked before I got them. I would have the surgery done ONLY as a last resort. Training is best.

IF the OP is still around I suggest she go to the Leerburg site: Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free dog training streaming videos, free eBooks, podcasts, by Ed Frawley and Michael Ellis . there she'll find a wealth of training information, much of it free as well as a forum on which she can ask her questions and get no nonsense answers from other members many of whom are professional trainers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2012, 07:33 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, PA
3,388 posts, read 3,323,595 times
Reputation: 2392
Quote:
Originally Posted by skelaki View Post
Actually it is not unusual for herding dog show breeders to have the dogs debarked (often due to neighbor complaints) so that is not an indication either way about the breeder's qualifications. And, no, I'm not advocating debarking in any way although I have had 2 dogs that were partially debarked before I got them. I would have the surgery done ONLY as a last resort. Training is best.

IF the OP is still around I suggest she go to the Leerburg site: Leerburg Dog Training | 16,000 pages of dog training information, 300 free dog training streaming videos, free eBooks, podcasts, by Ed Frawley and Michael Ellis . there she'll find a wealth of training information, much of it free as well as a forum on which she can ask her questions and get no nonsense answers from other members many of whom are professional trainers.
Thanks for the clarification. The bolded is the part I was trying to communicate. I have strong feelings about humans altering their pets for their own convenience.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:09 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top