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So maybe it's one of those "catch-all" terms that's misused by the media, similar to "assault weapons."
DING DING DNG we have a winner! thats exaclty whats going on.
yes the term pit bull is a "catch all" and it shoudlnt be..the ONLY breed that shoudl be refered to as a pit bull is the american pit bull terier (otherwise known as the APBT) the taffordshire bull terier is not a "pitbull" theres not "pit" in the name and the breed was never designed for close quarter "pit" combat, the sattofrdshire is comonly refered to as the Staffy or staffy bull. the Ameircan staffordshire bull terrier (or Am-Staff) is also not a "pit" dog like the englih versin these dogs were bred to work in more open spaced, their build is different form the APBT (bred to work in tight close uarters) for a reason.
the theres the bull terrier (the target dog) and the american bulldog (chance off homeward bound)
unfortunatly they (along with many of the smaller mastifs like dogos and corsi) get coined under the "pit" title...people forgetting completly that the term pit bull terrier was given for a speciic reason...
personaly i feel that each breed is uniqueenough to NOT lump under the "catch all" "pit bull" and "pit bull type" categories, but unfrotunatly many dont and dont want to learn the diferences...
i can tell you id trust a well raised pitbull with kids more than any lab...
and i agree that this thread is probably one of THE most promising ive seen in a long time...instea of assuming youve asked and i cannot tell you how refreshing that is.
dont get me wrong, ive had run ins with "broken" pits...
the neighbor next door has a serisouly dog agressive boy whos spent his entirelife chained to a dog house...i cant say i "like" that dog...but it has nothing to do with his breed...
but ANY dog can be "broken" any breed can be nasty, agressive, and biters, and EVERY dog, if put in just the "right" predicament WILL bite...
unfortunatly "pit bull mauls child" sells alot more than "neighborhood lab bites kid"
those dogs that are "well known" killing dogs who would kill a man if given a chance...id assume thats withinthe last 50 yrs or so right!?
Most of the foundation stock going back as far as a hundred years are on record as being man biters. It is simply a myth that man biters were routinely culled. Dog fighters are in it for the money...if a dog wins, they'll keep on fighting it regardless of what 'bad habits' the dog may have.
I've worked extensively with pit bulls. That includes your typical mixed mutt pits and top winning show dogs. Out of hundreds of dogs I've encountered, I can remember less than a handful that were human aggressive. I do think the breed is demonized and that many pits make great pets. However, that doesn't mean the truth shouldn't be known about the history of this breed. The fact is that they ARE different from breeds like goldens or labs, and those differences must be taken into account. A pit may not be the best pick for an inexperienced owner, and pretending these dogs are as easy as a golden or lab does no one, including the breed, any favors.
Yes, most dogs labeled 'pits' are either mixed or badly bred examples of the breed. This doesn't change the fact that such dogs form the vast majority of what the public considers a pit bull and these are the dogs most people are likely to encounter. These are also the dogs filling shelters, and so are the dogs most people are likely to adopt. We can't pretend that these dogs don't matter when the 'true' pits are evidently so very rare.
Right now there is a picture of a pit that has gone viral. It shows a pit surrounded by baby animals of various species (chicks, ducks, rabbits, etc.) People are posting it with inspiring messages about how wonderful pits are. Well, pits are wonderful...they have a ton of great qualities. But pretending these dogs aren't highly prone to dog aggression and predatory aggression is downright irresponsible. It is the nature of these dogs to become dog aggressive after sexual majority. This does not mean that every last pit will become dog aggressive, but many will. A person who has been told that a well-raised pit will be safe around other animals or other dogs may be in for a very nasty shock. Dog aggression and predatory aggression are hereditary, just as herding is hereditary in border collies. It isn't the dog's fault and it isn't the owners...it's just the pit bull being a pit bull.
Pit bulls were also bred for the quality known as 'gameness.' It's an elusive quality that is hard to describe, but basically boils down to a dog that takes a licking and keeps on coming back for more. This is what makes a champion pit a great fighter, but it's also what makes these dogs excel at sports like pulling. It gives them that spark that often makes for a great pet...they're always ready and willing to go out and have fun. But it's also what makes them dangerous when they do become aggressive. Pits don't have 'locking jaws', but they will latch on and hold in a way that other breeds don't. Every responsible pit owner should carry a break stick (a stick that can be inserted between the jaws to open the mouth.) That's not because every pit is a monster just waiting to bite, but because if the worst should happen for WHATEVER REASON, these dogs CAN inflict major wounds. Again, ignoring the fact that they have a different bite style is not helpful.
I love pits. Truly, I've met so many great dogs. But dog aggression and predatory aggression DO exist in this breed moreso than many other breeds, and human aggression IS part of the breed's history. I don't believe in nonsense like breed bans, but I do believe in education so that people can manage problems BEFORE they turn into a news headline. Ignoring these factors only guarantees more tragedies.
Last edited by ParallelJJCat; 04-03-2013 at 01:24 AM..
The main problems with Pits are human caused by poor breeding and by the breed becoming the tough dog of choice by gang members and others with either just plain bad intentions or ignorance.
No child, especially a young child, should be left unsupervised with any dog but especially with any large dog or group of dogs.
Pits being both a bully breed and a terrier have the tenacity of both those types. Most breeds that are either a Bully or Terrier breed are not recommended for inexperienced owners. Unfortunately too many people impulse buy (often from a BYB) and have no clue as to how to raise one of these dogs to be a good, well-balanced and trained pet.
And, as already mentioned, the media and even shelters, etc. mis-label dogs as pits based strictly on looks. And insurance companies are refusing insurance based on many breeds not just Pits.
Parallel, I've seen that picture (How can you miss it? It's everywhere! ). No, I would not expect the majority of pit bulls, or the majority of dogs in general, to be so laid back with such a variety of animals. And I agree a pit bull may be among the breeds that are not the best choice for some first time owners, as it does have that tenacity (a very good substitute for the word gameness, imo) and of course size and strength, and an unbridled enthusiasm for life that is positive, but a little much for uncertain owners to temper. A spoiled little dog who has been allowed to act any way it wants can at least be picked up and controlled by its owner. But I do think you're overstating the commonness of dog and small animal aggression among pit bulls. Like you, I've worked with many pit bulls, in a setting of more chronic stress (shelter) than acute stress (vet's office), so perhaps there is a difference there. I just know too many grown pitties who live peaceably with other dogs and cats to believe they are so different from other large dogs. I have seen a few pit bulls that I'd never put in a home with a cat, and the idea of one of those dogs actually getting hold of a cat is frightening. But I've seen far more that were nonreactive, submissive, or playful with cats (hence all those other viral pictures and videos we've all seen ). Compared to other breeds of dogs, I have not seen more aggressiveness to other animals with the pit bulls, truly. I see this almost every weekend at adoption events with ever-changing groups of several dogs. It has not been that many years since pit bulls were "underground" and owned by either dog fighters or people who wanted an intimidating lawn ornament. As more and more shelters are adopting them out in larger numbers instead of putting them to sleep, and as average families are adopting or buying (sigh) them in larger numbers, I think it will become more apparent that most of them are wonderful dogs that can live is a world of not just people, but other dogs, cats, and small animals without creating mayhem. My quiet middle class subdivision of maybe 100 homes has 4 homes with pit bulls in them. None are chained outside to guard the house. They're just dogs. Things are changing, and I hope it won't be too long before people in general regard them as just dogs.
The main problems with Pits are human caused by poor breeding
The first time I read this sentence I interpreted it as poorly bred humans, LOL! I don't think that's what you intended, but you know, when you get down to it, that IS a big part of the problem, isn't it?
im in support of mandetory birth control for all...you only get a "kid pass" if you attend and complete a special parenting class...and you have to take home one of those electronic babies for a month first too!
LOL!
most dog bites, no matter what the breed are 100% due to human error...
HUMANS are to blame 98% fo the time...
I'm not sure whether to respond to "most," "100%", or "98%", but I was bitten by one in December and it was NOT my fault. I was walking on a sidewalk and a couple came the other way walking a pit (and I go to dog shows, I know what they look like) on a leash. I didn't make eye contact with them OR the dog. As they walked past me, the dog lunged in front of them and bit me on the leg. I was able to jump away before it tore too much of my leg off. As reported too often in the news, the couple were upset and said the dog had NEVER acted that way before. I think they were more shocked than I was.
Another time my friend and I were walking our small dogs, on leashes, and a pit chained in front of a house suddenly broke its chain, ran across the street, and nearly killed my friend's dog, who again, hadn't even noticed the dog until it came after her. And these people had an infant crawling around the house.
THAT is my problem with that breed/mix. Besides the young, macho, irresponsible owners who encourage their dogs to be vicious, too many pits injure people and other dogs out of nowhere with no warning and the owners are always shocked.
I don't care if people want to own them, but I wouldn't have one. I prefer a dog with a more stable temperament, whatever it may be.
I'm not sure whether to respond to "most," "100%", or "98%", but I was bitten by one in December and it was NOT my fault. I was walking on a sidewalk and a couple came the other way walking a pit (and I go to dog shows, I know what they look like) on a leash. I didn't make eye contact with them OR the dog. As they walked past me, the dog lunged in front of them and bit me on the leg. I was able to jump away before it tore too much of my leg off. As reported too often in the news, the couple were upset and said the dog had NEVER acted that way before. I think they were more shocked than I was.
Another time my friend and I were walking our small dogs, on leashes, and a pit chained in front of a house suddenly broke its chain, ran across the street, and nearly killed my friend's dog, who again, hadn't even noticed the dog until it came after her. And these people had an infant crawling around the house.
THAT is my problem with that breed/mix. Besides the young, macho, irresponsible owners who encourage their dogs to be vicious, too many pits injure people and other dogs out of nowhere with no warning and the owners are always shocked.
I don't care if people want to own them, but I wouldn't have one. I prefer a dog with a more stable temperament, whatever it may be.
ANY question or comment about "pitbulls" always end up as pit bashing. It's really a shame.
I love pits. Truly, I've met so many great dogs. But dog aggression and predatory aggression DO exist in this breed moreso than many other breeds, and human aggression IS part of the breed's history. I don't believe in nonsense like breed bans, but I do believe in education so that people can manage problems BEFORE they turn into a news headline. Ignoring these factors only guarantees more tragedies.
We agree on the bottom line: Breed Specific Laws or 'bans' are nonsense. Once people can agree on that, there's plenty of room for different opinions what kind of dog they want, or whether it's a good idea to have certain dogs (or any dogs) with small children, are multiple strong dogs in a household a good idea, should responsible parents leave a child with a baby sitter who owns multiple strong dogs (as in one recent tragic incident) and so forth. 'Let a thousand flowers bloom' as far as people having their own opinions..as long as they are not dictating to me how to live when I and my dog have done nothing to interfere with their lives, and won't.
As just a topic of academic interest your points about breed history are interesting. I think you'll agree though that this sort of debate (were 'pit bulls' 'nanny dogs'? how much were human aggressive ones really culled? etc) often becomes the proxy battleground for BSL, when it's largely irrelevant to BSL. Humans are constantly changing the nature of dogs via selective breeding. As a 'pit bull' owner I think the old pictures of dogs which look exactly like mine with little kids, taken perhaps in late 19th or early 20th century, are kind of cool, but they really don't tell us much about the typical dog of that appearance *now*. Likewise with how fighting breeders operated in the past, interesting but doesn't tell us that much about what the typical dog of this general description is like now, and tells us nothing basically about the propensities of the typical temperament tested, spay/neutered 'pit' mix from a responsible shelter (like mine).
I also agree it's very important for people to distinguish dog and human aggression in dogs. The BSL debate often switches gear rapidly between arguments about 'pit bulls' propensity to hurt other dogs or other people as if those are comparable things. But they are totally different, not only from the point of view of dog behavior, but the moral equation involved on the human side. I'm fine with putting down, sadly, any individual dog, especially any strong one, which shows, as an individual, any propensity to be hostile to people, unless training is immediately and effectively applied to reverse that behavior. I don't even believe in guard dogs (as in ones which bite people who trespass), of any breed. It's an abuse of canines IMO (though note, I'm not proposing any laws against it, just expressing my opinion). Even if an individual dog shows it just *might* go after somebody if it gets loose, that's too great a risk. OTOH it's immoral to put down a dog, especially one targeted because of its 'breed' ('pit bull' in common use isn't even a 'breed', more a general appearance) because it *might* hurt another *dog*. Dogs are dogs. A cute little dog's life is not worth more than a big strong strong dog's life. Specifically, I refuse to accept that my dog should have been left to die in the shelter because she's dog aggressive. We handle her so as to virtually eliminate any chance she'll hurt anyone else's dog (any other responsibly handled dog; if someone lets their dog illegally off its leash in public and it attacks mine on her leash sorry, I might not be able to save that dog, but that's the other owner's fault). Any remaining small chance we might fail to control her does not justify killing her preemptively. Again, if she had one iota of human aggression in her (she has zero), that would be a different story, wrt our individual dog. The fact that some other dog who looks like her might be human aggressive is a totally immoral reason to kill my dog. IOW BSL is immoral, besides being nonsense.
I was bitten by a GSD and a Lassie dog, got pretty good too. Common sense tells me it was hardly the breeds fault, I am not going to take a few bad experiences tarnish the whole lot. Dogs tied up outside and can break a chain is most likely not a family dog either, which backs up what I said about people saying "family" dog thats chained 24/7 and goes buck crazy, I would too.
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). No, I would not expect the majority of pit bulls, or the majority of dogs in general, to be so laid back with such a variety of animals. And I agree a pit bull may be among the breeds that are not the best choice for some first time owners, as it does have that tenacity (a very good substitute for the word gameness, imo) and of course size and strength, and an unbridled enthusiasm for life that is positive, but a little much for uncertain owners to temper. A spoiled little dog who has been allowed to act any way it wants can at least be picked up and controlled by its owner. But I do think you're overstating the commonness of dog and small animal aggression among pit bulls. Like you, I've worked with many pit bulls, in a setting of more chronic stress (shelter) than acute stress (vet's office), so perhaps there is a difference there. I just know too many grown pitties who live peaceably with other dogs and cats to believe they are so different from other large dogs. I have seen a few pit bulls that I'd never put in a home with a cat, and the idea of one of those dogs actually getting hold of a cat is frightening. But I've seen far more that were nonreactive, submissive, or playful with cats (hence all those other viral pictures and videos we've all seen 
). Compared to other breeds of dogs, I have not seen more aggressiveness to other animals with the pit bulls, truly. I see this almost every weekend at adoption events with ever-changing groups of several dogs. It has not been that many years since pit bulls were "underground" and owned by either dog fighters or people who wanted an intimidating lawn ornament. As more and more shelters are adopting them out in larger numbers instead of putting them to sleep, and as average families are adopting or buying (sigh) them in larger numbers, I think it will become more apparent that most of them are wonderful dogs that can live is a world of not just people, but other dogs, cats, and small animals without creating mayhem. My quiet middle class subdivision of maybe 100 homes has 4 homes with pit bulls in them. None are chained outside to guard the house. They're just dogs. Things are changing, and I hope it won't be too long before people in general regard them as just dogs.
