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eevee the links you gave me appear to just be for trainers. Don't I want a behavior specialist such as a Certified Dog Behavior Consultant (CDBC) or a Certified Vet Behaviorist?
It's very rare/hard to find a behaviorist operating out of their own place. It's been my experience that most work out of dog training facilities, though a few do work out of their own homes. At the very least, they may be able to guide you towards someone reputable.
I honestly don't know much about certified behaviorists. I think, while it's nice, certified doesn't guarantee results (of course, there are zero guarantees when it comes to dogs). You may find that the person who works best with your dogs is just a highly knowledgeable dog trainer. Your absolute best bet is to get recommendations. Again, I suggest you talk to your vet and see if they have any advice or can refer you to someone.
I also feel you need a behaviorist and not a trainer. Trainers are great for obedience issues but this is a behavior issue. Years ago I had a reactive dog and first I asked many different trainers how to handle it and I was not comfortable with any of the advice any of them gave me as my gut feeling was if I do what they tell me too the dog will start to fear me and no longer trust me or feel safe . I even had one trainer get mad and ask why I had asked her for help if I was not going to do what she told me too.
There were not many that specialized in behavior yet but I managed to find a vet with a PHD in behavior down in Del Mar which on a good traffic day is about a 5 hr drive. I set up an appointment and drove down.There was a huge difference in how he said we needed to deal with the issue and how the trainers had said to deal with it. He told me he was glad I had listened to my gut as had I done what they suggested the dog may have become fearful of me and then the issues would escalate. Because he was a vet he could offer medicine to help with a dogs anxiety but he told me he only does that if he fears the dog is in danger of loosing its home.When he met Jazz and I he knew there was no danger in that.So we just worked on modifying her behavior. He cost more then a trainer but it was worth it as I learned so much more then any trainer could have taught me. And while it would have been easier to not have a dog with issues I am glad I did have such a dog as I learned so many things I had never learned with my easy dogs. It was a case of you get what you paid for.
My brother has 3 english bulldogs and the two (neutered) males do not get along and they will get into fights that leave them both bloody and risks whoever separates them being injured too. They love all 3 so unless one of their sons wants to take the one male someday they will not get rid of one. So they have a house divided with baby gates and a yard that is divided into 3 areas as they have a pool so one area is off limits to all the bullies unless they are with them and the other rest of the yard is divided so each divided area of the house has a pet door going out to one of the areas so while they are at work all the dogs can go in and out as they please and never be together. The female can be in with either male. They do have a large wire crate in the family room so in the evenings if they are in there they often put one of the males in the crate with something to chew so that all 3 dogs can be in the same room with them then rotate the crate time between the boys. There does not appear to be a clear trigger as the one male seems to just hate the other and will even attack him as he sleeps! He came from a shelter and at first he fought with the female but she is a tough girl and put him in his place so now they get along but the boys have to be kept apart. Makes it hard when I visit and play with them as the one left out cry's and fusses so much.
Having two dogs that do not get along can create a lot of tension which I am sure then adds to the problems as the dogs read your tension and fear so I hope you can find a way to fix the issue between your dogs. Good luck!
About half the time 2 adult female boxers cannot live together peacefully once they both understand they are permanent residents in the house. The boxer rescue group I volunteer with won't let a female boxer be adopted from them if there is another female dog in the household. In the end I think you will need to rehome one of the dogs.
1: arethe dogs spayed? same sex agressio is VERY common among females, particulaly intact females.
2: im having a similar issue with my 2 male dogs (1 neutered, the small one due to be ...)
heres what, with the help of some wonderfull behavourist AND trainer frineds weve surmised. andit sounds similar in your case.
LITTLE dog is the atagonist...little dog is lacking confidence and thus becomming protective over "high value" items...little dog needs confidence building exersizes, socilization, more excersize a training.
BIG DOG has self cntrol and resource guarding issues, instead of givign warning signs to little dog when little dog oes something deemed unacceptable, big dog is missing out the "warning" steps and simply reacting immediatly...this wouldnt be quite so much of a issue if there wasnt a big size difference...
big dog needs to learn self control.
some things ive found have realy helped in my situation:
1: "crate an rotate" if your not 100% aware/able to watch closely...seperate...be it 1 in the crate the other lose and sw out or simply a doro between them. this shoul eb ANY time youcant watch em..nee a pitty break, put oe someplace safe, need to take a shower or make dinner ect....remove 1 dog to a "safe" area. this takes some stress and risk otu of the situatioduring times when it woudl be most vlitile.
2: dont give either dog acess to high value items whenyoucant 150% supervie the interaction. you need to be able to step in the MOMENT 1 og start to guard that item and remove the item from the "game" to control the situation and remove tension
at which point youll block untill redirect.
3: the BLOCK! look up nikki iveys DogSpeak book and vids on youtube. DogSpeak102 - YouTube
ivefoudn the body block to be INCREDIBLY helpfull in breaking tensioned moments, giving my 0-60 big guy chance to redirect and my little uncofindent "bully" chance to get of his high horse, but it must be done right.
I HIGHLY HUGHLY HIGHLY suggest DogSpeak, Nikki Ivey has been the biggest help, i thoguth i was going to have to rehome my big guy at one point because of issues EXACTLY like you describe...and thigns are still not perfect (and ive been working and trainign dogs for along time but ive neverhad this combinaiton ot personalities before) but the difference is wonderfull now im understanding better what im seeing. (I alway thoguth it was my big guy starting it...and its not, hes just "hyper-reactive" and i wasnt reading my little guys signals well enough to realize hes the antagonist!
Keep these two separated until you can have them trained. Put the one who started fight at a down stay position to show that you don't approve their behavior. For example, when your dog jumped up the bed to attack the small one, you would say a loud "No" and push her off bed and insist on a down stay position. Let her stay for a minute or two depend on how much training they had before. If the small one stole the big one food or toy, you should do the same to the small one. They need to learn what is allowed and what is not allowed. After two or three times, they will learn not to do it or stop immediately when you said "No".
Make sure you use a loud stern voice so they learn and know you mean business.
Not necessarily the best advice, without seeing the actual behavior. If the larger dog is actually the dominant one (whether the OP can't tell which one is or not doesn't mean they switch - one of them has this role), she has the "right" to be upset that the less dominant one is on the bed, exactly where she wants to be. In normal pack order, she would "discipline" the smaller dog by growling at her. The smaller dog, lower in the pack, should concede and do whatever the pack leader says. All is resolved, just by a simple growl from the lead dog. In this case, if the human disciplines the pack leader for growling at a lower dog, it throws the whole pack out of order.
Sounds to me like each of them were their own respective pack leaders before......and are now fighting for the lead role. But, I can't say for sure, without actually seeing behavior. The important thing is that it is the behavior of all involved, humans and dogs.
I have some experience with dog-aggressive dogs living in the same house. Unfortunately. Plus I have fostered and managed multiple-dog households for over 20 years.
Females are more likely to fight to kill, males more likely to get into a big noisy scary fight, but for the boys it's more about show of strength and dominance and they don't necessarily want to kill the other dog...females (dang I wish CD would let posters use the correct word for female dogs) are much more serious about eliminating the competition. Biological imperative. Although as stated it's hard to tell without seeing what is really going on.
I agree with NILIF, never ever** leaving these two dogs alone unattended together, being vigilant about high value items (toys, beds, water, food, whatever triggers altercations) and really getting to learn dog body language so you can step in before things escalate.
**When I was new to fostering and dogs, about 1992, I took in a Chow mix female foster while I also had in my house my three personal dogs: a mellow male Rottweiler, a bossy female French bulldog and a bossy GSD female. I was very inexperienced, obviously, and went out one night leaving all dogs loose in the house together.
I came home a few hours later to find: The Chow mix foster strutting around unscathed. The GSD mix girl needed over 100 stitches to close a gaping wound in her neck. The Frenchie needed about 300 stitches to repair repeated bites to her head and back. Both of these dogs were in my bedroom. The Rottie had retreated to the spare room and stayed there.
What probably happened was the Chow X foster went after the Frenchie, the GSD mix went back at the Chow, the Chow won and retreated, and my 110 lb big mean (ha, not) Rottweiler boy just backed away from everything and said see ya.
But, yeah. An obscenely high ER vet bill and thank doG all the dogs lived and now that I know what I know, I absolutely and positively would never let that happen again. Any inkling that there may be conflict, dogs are separated in my absence. And bottom line (now that I know better) this was my fault.
1) Separate between the dogs. You have way too many pets in one townhouse and I can tell you these animals need their territory. Do not let fights even start. Its dangerous and the smaller dog can get killed.
2) You sound very emotional and your attitude affects all pets in the household. Last thing they need is extra drama.
3) Behaviorists usually assist people in situations like yours. They will evaluate and tell what needs to be done or changed. On the other hand, a trainer will work with your dog to do (or perform) certain tasks or activities. A trainer may train your dog to be a gourd dog (for example). Or on the agility course. Or to retrieve birds from the water. That however, is in theory, since people call themselves different names and titles.
4) Its not that important which dog actually started the fight. More importantly is why they fight and what are the situations that spark these skirmishes.
Females are more likely to fight to kill, males more likely to get into a big noisy scary fight, but for the boys it's more about show of strength and dominance and they don't necessarily want to kill the other dog...females (dang I wish CD would let posters use the correct word for female dogs) are much more serious about eliminating the competition. Biological imperative. Although as stated it's hard to tell without seeing what is really going on.
A fantastic post, in it's entirety, but this part is especially important!
OP, my girls are likely going to be permanently separated. The behaviorist gave us suggestions and tips which may work, but they require two people here (ideally myself and my husband). Unfortunately, due to our schedules, we are rarely home at the same time, so we are unable to practice these techniques often (which is needed to put them together). We are able to make this separation work for us due to a fantastic house layout and rotation of dogs.
I am not saying that your girls will need to be permanently separated (but they certainly need to be temp. separated). But, please start thinking through what you will do if that is the case. Do not think you will be able to solve all of the problems. If so, there will be a horrible fight, and serious, serious injuries, if not death.
(to Chiroptera - my b**ch fights almost resulted in death. I, too, had thousands of dollars in bills, many of them for me. While I know never to engage in a dog fight, instinct made me jump right in. Wrong move. - oh, and both my boys ran and hid, immediately, from any confrontation or fight.)
4) its not that important which dog actually started the fight. More importantly is why they fight and what are the situations that spark these skirmishes.
My boyfriend and I are having some problems with our dogs getting along and I'm hoping someone here can help. Sorry this is so long. About 6 months ago I moved into his townhouse with my dog and two cats. He also has a dog and a cat. Both of the dogs are females around the same age and both show some dominant traits but some fear in certain situations too. Neither is dominant or submissive all the time. They go back and forth.
My dog is much larger than his and they get into fights where mine will pick his up by the neck and shake her around and we have to break them up. I know this is not going to go away on its own and in fact this week we had a pretty bad incident.
His Dog
- Lhasa Apso, female, 6 ½ years old, 21lbs
- Tries to bully the cats and was dominant over his other dog that has since passed away.
- Aggressive/protective with toys. She will collect them and then stand over them and not let anyone (human or animal) take them away. She will take them right out of my dog’s mouth and mine let's her 90% of the time.
- She will nip, lick, or be all up in my dog's business and usually mine will just try get away but not retaliate. She likes to play rough which mine takes the wrong way sometimes.
- She seems to be afraid of a lot of things, like the vacuum cleaner for instance.
- She is apprehensive of people on walks and will usually bark at them if they get too close. In our house she is fine with those she knows. She shows a bit of fear in the house with strangers.
My Dog
- Shepherd Mix (I think with Boxer), female 6 years old, 55lbs
- Is afraid of my oldest male cat. She is fine with the other cats.
- Is not aggressive with toys or dog food. Let's his dog take toys from her usually. After they are done eating his dog will go to her bowl and mine never reacts.
- She can be a bit aggressive when there is people food around.
- Is not aggressive with us at all. I can pretty much do anything to her, hold her, and touch her anywhere and she is fine with it.
- She humps us and visitors occasionally, usually when people are hugging.
- She is very attached to me. Even despite her size she always wants to be next to me or on my lap. She always wants to sleep next to me in bed but I make her go to the floor. When I wake up she is next to me usually.
- On leash she shows aggression to other dogs when they approach. She will go into stalk mode where she crouches down. Usually if I let her go up to them she is fine. It seems like she is more upset when I won't let her. She also gets upset when some strangers walk by. She is fine with anyone in the house though and loves everyone who comes to visit.
- She seems ok off leash. She does fine at the dog beach. I'm afraid to take her now though.
They usually can play nice and get along fine but we have had about 1-2 incidents a month where something will tick my dog off and she will grab his by the neck and start shaking her. Sometimes the same situation can occur without incident. Other times all hell breaks loose. His fights back but because of the positioning and size difference can't really get free. We have to break them up. This is almost always over a toy or his dog playing too rough with mine but it also seems like sometimes it's protective in nature. Also sometimes his is just standing there doing nothing. They are left alone all day together in the kitchen and they are fine. The inconsistency makes it hard to find the trigger.
2 days ago we were playing ball in the back yard and his got a hold of the ball that mine was playing with and was very protective over it. Mine was ok at first but then got a little too close and his snapped at her. Mine grabbed her by the neck and did the usual shake. My boyfriend stepped in and ended up getting bit by his dog in the arm 5 times. Lhasas are strong! My boyfriend was home with them the next day and says his was acting weird all day. That night his was on the bed with us asleep and mine had fallen asleep on the floor. We were watching TV and I started screaming in reaction to something I saw. Mine immediately jumped on the bed and grabbed his sleeping dog. We got them apart but I sat on the bed and mine immediately threw herself on top of me so it was obviously a protective move.
I think the issue is that mine is very protective of me and also because they are both trying to be dominant, even over us. However their contradictory traits makes is tough to figure out. Can anyone give tips on how to establish a pecking order in the house? We are now not leaving them alone together during the day. I plan to look into a trainer for some help but I’m not sure how quickly we can do that. Any advice you can give will be helpful. Thanks.
Some other random thoughts:
Both of your dogs seem to be apprehensive about interacting both with other dogs, and also with people.
A good positive-based training class may well help. If I were to guess, I'd say both of you guys tighten up on the leash and get tense and transmit "I'm tense!" body language whenever you encounter something vaguely scary. Your dogs get that feeling in spades and pick it up from you guys+
Dominance is not on a simple continuum, it is really complex so don't even go there.
A dog that barks at strangers or gets defensive with no good reason in NOT being "protective." This is probably the hugest misconception between people and their dogs...people like to assume their dogs are being "protective" because it buys into some sort of myth, when they are actually being neurotic and scared.
A truly protective and secure dog isn't going to wig out on a whim. Also it's only insecure dogs who act clingy and velcro with their humans...secure, truly dominant dogs have no need of such constant reassurance. They are not noisy or reactive, because they don't need to be.
NILIF.
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