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Old 05-20-2013, 07:13 AM
 
149 posts, read 237,951 times
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Hello everyone,

My wife and I recently decided to bring a puppy into our home. While we are waiting to pick it up, we are obviously doing a lot of reading & prep work. One of the books that was recommended to us was written by Cesar Millan and we're obviously also familiar with his TV show. We've been watching re-runs & reading his books so we are learning a lot, but we also know that it is just 1 person & their ideas about things.

From the dog owner community, what are you opinions of his training methods. Do most of you agree? Disagree? Do you have any suggestions for other books/people? What he writes about seems to make sense but it's obviously better to get an idea from several people, as opposed to sticking to one philosphy that may or may not work.

Would love to hear from everyone!
Thanks

Last edited by NovaDragon; 05-20-2013 at 08:22 AM.. Reason: title change
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:30 AM
 
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I agree with some of his methodology, he is right in that dogs can sense your energy. If you remain calm, composed and assertive, the dog will respond in kind. I also agree with him about equal parts exercise, discipline and affection because a tired dog = happy dog, and a well behaved tired dog is a fantastic dog!

But, after doing my research on my own, I don't always agree with his methods for flooding dogs or things of that nature. Read Sophia Yin's blog Dog Category Archives | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS or Patricia McConnell's Patricia McConnell PH.D. | McConnell Publishing Inc. both are great alternate views of Cesar's methods.

That all said? I think there can be a mix of many methods, and it really depends on the dog himself. Different dogs respond to different things.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cottercutie View Post
I agree with some of his methodology, he is right in that dogs can sense your energy. If you remain calm, composed and assertive, the dog will respond in kind. I also agree with him about equal parts exercise, discipline and affection because a tired dog = happy dog, and a well behaved tired dog is a fantastic dog!

But, after doing my research on my own, I don't always agree with his methods for flooding dogs or things of that nature. Read Sophia Yin's blog Dog Category Archives | Animal Behavior and Medicine Blog | Dr. Sophia Yin, DVM, MS or Patricia McConnell's Patricia McConnell PH.D. | McConnell Publishing Inc. both are great alternate views of Cesar's methods.

That all said? I think there can be a mix of many methods, and it really depends on the dog himself. Different dogs respond to different things.

I would go with Patricia McConnell's methods any day. In fact, when we needed to have our old dog Jimmy's fears addressed, we took him to her behavioral clinic in Madison, Wisconsin.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:44 AM
 
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It's an interesting a sensitive subject. I am a Cesar fan, but more so about the awearness he raised regarding dogs and their relation with people. But there are many who strongly oppose his methods, deeming them outdated and cruel.
I found out that dog trainers and breeders are very defensive about their phylosophy and methods. Each one is absolutly convinced they understand dogs better then others. Very big Egos are involved in dog training.
Personally I think that nobody understands dogs as much as they want to belive and there are many ways to train a dog. If one way works for you, stick with it. Theories come and go. I am sure that in the future there will be new theories and discoveries as well.
That said, there are basic things most experts agree on, like the need to socialize a dog you bring home. Or that many dogs need to be active, working and doing things with their owners. Nobody recommends chaining a dog outside and leaving it by himself for days.
My 2 cents: if a puppy, start with one from good bloodlines. It makes a huge difference.

Last edited by oberon_1; 05-20-2013 at 11:55 AM..
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Stuck in NE GA right now
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Glad your doing your research to make your puppy feel at home and good start training. Cesar is just one trainer and there are plenty of others. I'd suggest also asking your breeder for insites too. I'd look for a positive reinforcement type trainer and if you have time go watch a class.

If you are getting a breed dog you might also contact the local/state breed club, often they have people who own and train your specific breed.

If you do go to a class and "feel" something is just not right or your un-happy - LEAVE - follow your instincts and don't be bullied into staying if you just don't like how it's working out. Finding a trainer can be a daunting task, so take your time to find someone you are compatible with.
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:09 PM
 
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if you use his methods from the git go, you should be fine. My biggest advice? Think about what you want this "dog" to do when he is an adult. Get on the furniture? Sleep on the bed? Be under the table when you are eating? Or are all of those things not good for you.

You and the family discuss how you would like this dog to be when he is full grown, and start those habits from day 1. It's hard to discipline a cute little fuzzy puppy.. but if you keep the picture of an adult dog in your mind... it's easier to get those good habits going!

Make a list, post it on the fridge..... refer to it often!
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:10 PM
 
149 posts, read 237,951 times
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Thanks for the responses. Yeah, I can't say that I've been unhappy with what we've gotten from the Cesar books, we certainly have learned a lot. But like you mentioned Oberon, there are a lot of different people who believe in other methods.

Just wanted to see who else came highly recommended so that way we weren't excluding ourselves from other perspectives on dog training. We'll have to check out the Yin and McConnel blogs/books as well. Though I'm sure that as soon as we bring out puppy in and he/she doesn't get it, we'll be looking for more advice too
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Old 05-20-2013, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
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I like Patricia McConnell, Suzanne Clothier ( she has some books but also great smaller Pamphlet type books like Body posture and Emotions..shifting shapes, shifting minds) And Pat Miller who has books Like the Power of Positive Dog Training and she writes training articles for the Whole Dog Journal. If you have a dog that is difficult to train a great book is When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion.
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Old 05-20-2013, 01:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashdog View Post
I like Patricia McConnell, Suzanne Clothier ( she has some books but also great smaller Pamphlet type books like Body posture and Emotions..shifting shapes, shifting minds) And Pat Miller who has books Like the Power of Positive Dog Training and she writes training articles for the Whole Dog Journal. If you have a dog that is difficult to train a great book is When Pigs Fly by Jane Killion.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention Suzanne Clothier. I love her stuff.

My two cents: I'm not a big Cesar Milan fan, especially now that he's marketing himself on leashes and other training tools and overcharging up the wazoo for everything. But the reason I've never cared much for him is that some of his methods use discomfort or other unpleasantness. Cruelty? Some might say so. I just think he goes negative too often.

I think the means are as important as the end. How you get to the point of a good recall is important, too.
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Old 05-20-2013, 04:11 PM
 
Location: North Western NJ
6,591 posts, read 18,906,829 times
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im with Tina...

on the plus side of cesars methods he teaches EXCERSIE and structure for a dog...this is GOOD, dogs need both pyshical and mental stimulaiton and some kind of structure inthier lived.

O the NEGATIVE side...everything else.
dogs arnt stupid they know were not dogs o this whole "be the alpha" is ridiculous...he doesnt "calm" dogs he pushes them tot he point that there so afaid of doing somehting wrong they simply shut down...(this isnt training its bullying) and the ONLY time a dog will force another dog onto its back or side is if it plans on KILLING the dog...dogs OFFER a roll or a belly as a sign of respect to another dog (or to a huma especially whe it results in a blly rubb or rid scritch) but to FORCE one is, to a dog, telling it your pretty much going to end it...
this is not teahcing a dog respect, but teahcing a dog you are agessive unpredicatbale and to costantly fear you...again causing a consufsed dog who doesnt do anything because its always getting mixed signals from you.

i also HATE that he punishes a dog for gowling, a growl is a WARNING its there to tell whoevers being growled at that they need to sotp and back up because the dog is uncmfrotable. by punishing the growl you dont fix the situation, you dot teach the dog how to handle the problem paropratly you simply teach the dog that growlign gets you punished so dont growl...however this just leads to a dog whos much mroe likley to snap or bits "without warning" because you punished the dog for warning instead of teaching the dog a better way to handle the situation.

again...like ANY training method, theres GOOD to take out of the method, again im a HUGE fan of a tired dog is ahappy dog methodology...im a HUGE fan of forming a respect bond with your dog by making it work for its treats, ect (NILF method) but making a dog work for the good thigns isnt the same as "alpha" theory which is what cesar WAS (i havent seen or read anythign by him in about 5 years) teaching with his Stare downs, alpha rolls and "tsssst's".

so take the good...
and think to yourself on everythign else "do i relay think my dog is stupid enough to think im "alpha wolf"? the answer is no and most of those "alpha theories are NOHTING like actualwoflbheaviour ayway...
I can tell you ina wofl pack, you roll another wolf its because your planning on taking its throat...
you stare down another wolf its becaue your Challenging it ect...this "wofl dominance theory" has no baiss i actual wolf behaviour.

i suggest nikky ivey, clothier, mconnel, miller ect.

Look for positive reinforcment methods coupled with identifying actual dog behaviour lik DogSpeak (nikky ivey)...youll d fine...why? becaus you had the sense to ASK! and that my frined is key.
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