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Old 11-06-2007, 06:21 AM
 
Location: Between Here and There
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Default What are the Bully Breeds...

Someone told me Boxers were considered bully breeds...is this true? Why?
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Old 11-06-2007, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Tejas
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Boxers are not in the bully group.

Bulldog
American Bulldog
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Bull Terrier

The list goes on. Moderator cut: Orphaned

Last edited by gizmo980; 11-10-2007 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 11-06-2007, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Between Here and There
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Boxers are not in the bully group.

Bulldog
American Bulldog
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Bull Terrier

The list goes on. Moderator cut: Orphaned
I didn't think so, but I'm thinking people are just using it as a label for any larger muscular dog...someone also told me at an event recently that Ridgebacks were in this class as well, again I thought that was wrong. I know lots of people with these breeds and they are just big cuddle bugs...so I was confused.

I met many Bull Terriers (don't know if they were Pits, Staffs or mixes) at an event in Baltimore last week, all were very nice and well socialized. So I'm sticking with the defective owners make defective dogs theory. If you own a dog that is large enough to do damage to another dog or child then you need to always train them well and supervise them, but people are lazy and that will probably never happen.

Last edited by gizmo980; 11-10-2007 at 11:28 AM..
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:14 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
Someone told me Boxers were considered bully breeds...is this true? Why?
I'm not really sure what breeds are in the bully breed group, but there are lots of breeds that are Bulldog breeds. These are the Bulldog breeds...

Boxer
Boxer

English Bulldog
English Bulldog

Olde English Bulldogge Olde English Bulldogge

American Bulldog
American Bulldog

French Bulldog
French Bulldog

Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog
Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog

Valley Bulldog
Valley Bulldog

American Pit Bull Terrier
American Pit Bull Terrier

American Staffordshire Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier

Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Bull Terrier
Bull Terrier

Boston Terrier
Boston Terrier

Bull Mastiff
Bull Mastiff

Banter Bulldogge
Banter Bulldogge


I couldn't tell you why they are all grouped together, but I would assume that they are all related, I guess you would say? I know that APBTs came from ASTs, which came from SBTs, which were bred from mixes of Bulldogs and various terriers. So, I would assume that's why those three breeds are considered bulldog breeds. As far as the bully breeds, as I said, I don't really know? When I talk about bully breeds I'm talking about Bulldog breeds. I always thought they were the same thing, bully is just short for Bulldog, but I don't know for sure.
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Between Here and There
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Ok why is this the cutest thing to me?...LOL

Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog

Anyway the term "Bully Breed" as applied to Bull dog breeds isn't the same as the slang that is it used for to indicate a problem breed, am I understanding this now?
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:36 AM
 
Location: St. Augustine, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
Ok why is this the cutest thing to me?...LOL

Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog

Anyway the term "Bully Breed" as applied to Bull dog breeds isn't the same as the slang that is it used for to indicate a problem breed, am I understanding this now?
They are cute, aren't they! lol!

I don't know? I had no idea that bully breeds were problem breeds? We own three APBTs and they have never caused any problems! lol! They are all 10 times better than the other dogs in our neighborhood, and they are extremely friendly!
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Old 11-06-2007, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Between Here and There
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitBullMommie1206 View Post
They are cute, aren't they! lol!

I don't know? I had no idea that bully breeds were problem breeds? We own three APBTs and they have never caused any problems! lol! They are all 10 times better than the other dogs in our neighborhood, and they are extremely friendly!
I'm not saying I think they are problem breeds, but that seems to be the way it is used. There are a lot of bans trying to be placed, and a lot of rescues are either dedicated to them specifically (which of course there are breed rescues for everything) and a lot of rescues, even all breed ones, that won't take them at all. So that is why the term was confusing to me and some of the breeds you listed I wouldn't think would even be in that list of dogs. Understand?

Like I said stupid people should be banned from owning dogs, the dogs don't need to be banned, IMO.
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:42 PM
 
829 posts, read 6,487,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitBullMommie1206 View Post
I couldn't tell you why they are all grouped together, but I would assume that they are all related, I guess you would say? I know that APBTs came from ASTs, which came from SBTs, which were bred from mixes of Bulldogs and various terriers. So, I would assume that's why those three breeds are considered bulldog breeds. As far as the bully breeds, as I said, I don't really know? When I talk about bully breeds I'm talking about Bulldog breeds. I always thought they were the same thing, bully is just short for Bulldog, but I don't know for sure.
PMB had a good list of bully breeds. The why for them being considered so lies in their heritage. They are bulldogs or descendants of bulldogs. So as she says they are related. The Boxer is considered a bully breed by some people because it is a descended of the Brabanter Bullenbeisser and an early version English Bulldog which is different from todays AKC version. The Boxer was also used in creating the Banter Bulldog which is created to be close to the Bullenbeisser.

As for the part about APBT coming from AST that is totally backwards. I've seen people claim this with no evidence. AST came from a lot of Tudor stock which is some of the most well known pit dogs of all time. They also descended from some others as well. APBTs have been here for many years before the name American Staffordshire Terrier was created. They were imported from English and Ireland. In 1898 the UKC was started as a way of recognizing APBTs as a breed, although they were of course here before then and the AKC did not want to recognize them. Then later in 1936 the AKC finally recognized them under the name American Staffordshire Terrier. This was almost 40yrs after they had been registered with the UKC, so IMO there is no way that APBTs could come from AST. The name American Bull Terrier as some AKC fanciers wanted did not flow with the already current Bull Terrier breeders who wouldn't have this. The American Staffordshire Terrier is a fitting name as it keeps part of the breeds origin Staffordshire in the name and adds the American part which is where they were refined. While APBTs have been in existence in this country for over 100yrs the AST was has only split from the breed for just over 70yrs.

That is why when you look at an AST pedigree it goes back to APBT and when you look in an APBT it doesn't, unless someone dual registered an AST as an APBT. That is the only way, and even then it will go APBT to AST back to APBT.

Another thing which seems to have recently become common is to claim APBTs are from either AST or SBT crossed to Bullmastiffs or American Bulldogs. People are frequently trying to discredit them as an actual breed of dog.

Here are a list of some bulldog breeds.

Alano Espanol (Spanish Bulldog)

Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog

American Bulldog

American Bully

American Pit Bull Terrier

American Staffordshire Terrier

Aussie Bulldog

Banter Bulldog


Boston Terrier

Bull Terrier

Campeiro Bulldog (Brazillian)

Ca De Bou

Catahoula Bulldog

Colorado Bulldog

Dorset Olde Tyme Bulldog

English Bulldog

French Bulldog

Hermes Bulldog


Irish Staffordshire Bull Terrier

Italian Bulldog/Giacobbe Bulldog

Miniature Bullterrier

Olde Angelic Bulldog

OldeEnglishBulldogOriginalEnglishBulldogStaffordshireBullTerrierValley Bulldog

Victorian Bulldog

Last edited by APBT_Samara; 11-06-2007 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 11-06-2007, 06:28 PM
 
Location: St. Augustine, Florida
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Quote:
As for the part about APBT coming from AST that is totally backwards.
What??? Everything that I have read about "pit bulls" says that APBTs are basically just a separate strand of AmStaffs. I have always read that when dog fighting was made illegal in the US two strands of AmStaff were developed, AmStaffs were show dogs and APBTs were fighting dogs. Although, I have also read that the APBT was first and then the AmStaff was a separate strand of APBT, but for the most part, I have always read that APBTs are a separate strand of AmStaff. Here is one site that I remember, just off the top of my head, that says that..

American Staffordshire Terrier Information and Pictures

Taken From Text:

Quote:
In the nineteenth century in the English region of Staffordshire, crossing among the Bulldog and various terriers developed a muscular, active, combative, Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Brought to the US, the breed was preferred by American breeders who increased it's weight and gave it a more powerful head. Now recognized as a separate breed the American Staffordshire Terrier is larger and heavier than his British cousin, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. After dog fighting was banned in the US in 1900, two strains of these dogs were developed, a show strain and a fighting dog strain. The show strain was labeled the American Staffordshire, while the fighting dog strain was labeled the American Pit Bull Terrier. The two strains are now being recognized as separate breeds.
Is that wrong? I haven't read all of your post yet, so I'm not sure if you explained further or not, but I will be back online in a little while and I'll finish reading then.

Oh, another question, even though I have almost always read that APBTs are a separate strain of AmStaffs, I have read several other "stories". My question is, how in the world do you know what the truth is? And why are there so many different versions?
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Old 11-06-2007, 07:15 PM
 
829 posts, read 6,487,238 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PitBullMommie1206 View Post
What??? Everything that I have read about "pit bulls" says that APBTs are basically just a separate strand of AmStaffs. I have always read that when dog fighting was made illegal in the US two strands of AmStaff were developed, AmStaffs were show dogs and APBTs were fighting dogs. Although, I have also read that the APBT was first and then the AmStaff was a separate strand of APBT, but for the most part, I have always read that APBTs are a separate strand of AmStaff. Here is one site that I remember, just off the top of my head, that says that..

American Staffordshire Terrier Information and Pictures

Taken From Text:

"In the nineteenth century in the English region of Staffordshire, crossing among the Bulldog and various terriers developed a muscular, active, combative, Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Brought to the US, the breed was preferred by American breeders who increased it's weight and gave it a more powerful head. Now recognized as a separate breed the American Staffordshire Terrier is larger and heavier than his British cousin, the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. After dog fighting was banned in the US in 1900, two strains of these dogs were developed, a show strain and a fighting dog strain. The show strain was labeled the American Staffordshire, while the fighting dog strain was labeled the American Pit Bull Terrier. The two strains are now being recognized as separate breeds."



Is that wrong? I haven't read all of your post yet, so I'm not sure if you explained further or not, but I will be back online in a little while and I'll finish reading then.

Oh, another question, even though I have almost always read that APBTs are a separate strain of AmStaffs, I have read several other "stories". My question is, how in the world do you know what the truth is? And why are there so many different versions?
Well for one you can't always trust dogbreedinfo, I think someone else mentioned that on here. Its not always accurate.

I did further explain instead of just saying that if you continue to read my other post (maybe you already did before reading this post..lol I don't know).

I'm not sure which other stories you read? Were they online? Do you have links? Some we can't accurately say for the history, just like many other breeds. Like the creating of Pit Bulls it was probably say a number of breeds that created Pit Bulls. Others the facts are pretty clear, as far as the APBT/AST thing. Since the UKC was started in 1898 and the AKC didn't accept them until 1936 thats pretty clear. Also looking at AST pedigrees which go back to Tudor, Colby and Feely all fighting stock APBTs.

If you read the AKC history they also say the same thing and they are the registry which accepted APBTs as ASTs.

In any event, it was the cross between the Bulldog and the terrier that resulted in the Staffordshire Terrier, which was originally called the Bull-and-Terrier Dog, Half and Half, and at times Pit Dog or Pit Builterrier. Later, it assumed the name in England of Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

These dogs began to find their way into America as early as 1870, where they became known as Pit Dog, Pit Bull Terrier, later American Bull Terrier, and still later as Yankee Terrier.

In any event, it was the cross between the Bulldog and the terrier that resulted in the Staffordshire Terrier, which was originally called the Bull-and-Terrier Dog, Half and Half, and at times Pit Dog or Pit Builterrier. Later, it assumed the name in England of Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

These dogs began to find their way into America as early as 1870, where they became known as Pit Dog, Pit Bull Terrier, later American Bull Terrier, and still later as Yankee Terrier.

In 1936, they were accepted for registration in the AKC Stud Book as Staffordshire Terriers. The name of the breed was revised effective January 1, 1972 to American Staffordshire Terrier. Breeders in this country had developed a type which is heavier in weight than the Staffordshire Bull Terrier of England and the name change was to distinguish them as separate breeds.

American Kennel Club - American Staffordshire Terrier History

I think that reading the dogbreedinfo thing it doesn't say that the APBT is from AST at all. At least what I get from it is that the AST and APBT are both separate strains that developed of the original SBT brought here. It doesn't say either came from the other only that they are both from SBT.

It is very vague without detail. This didn't happen in 1900. The Animal Welfare Act of 1974 is what really shot down a lot of dog fighting and made it a true crime. Before that people were *legally* matching dogs and still openly breeding game dogs. Regardless of a ban on dog fighting the AST didn't come about until 1936, so this split happened after 1900. Since the dogs were already known as APBT they came first. Now the AST and the APBT are normally considered at least 2 separate strains if not 2 different types within the same breed. Just like the SBT is considered a different breed. If you read the info in the curve nosed pit bull thread I thought I outlined it hopefully non confusing there?

Many people say that the AST is the show version and APBT is the fighting version but that is really over simplification and a generalization.

Here is also some APBT info, from UKC site.

Sometime during the nineteenth century, dog fanciers in England, Ireland, and Scotland began to experiment with crosses between Bulldogs and Terriers, looking for a dog that combined the gameness of the terrier with the strength and athleticism of the Bulldog. The result was a dog that embodied all of the virtues attributed to great warriors: strength, indomitable courage, and gentleness with loved ones. Immigrants brought these bull and terrier crosses to the United States. The American Pit Bull Terrier's many talents did not go unnoticed by farmers and ranchers who used their APBTs for protection, as catch dogs for semi-wild cattle and hogs, to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. Today, the American Pit Bull Terrier continues to demonstrate its versatility, competing successfully in Obedience, Tracking, Agility, Protection, and Weight Pulls, as well as Conformation.

The United Kennel Club was the first registry to recognize the American Pit Bull Terrier. U.K.C. founder C. Z. Bennett assigned U.K.C. registration number 1 to his own APBT, Bennett's Ring in 1898.

United Kennel Club: UKC-Recognized Breeds (broken link)

When I trace my dogs pedigrees back they are only APBTs behind them and it goes back to English/Irish imports after that. The Colby family has been breeding their APBTs for I believe at least 115yrs that I know of (probably longer) and AST have "only existed" (as in being called something other then APBT) since 1936.

Last edited by APBT_Samara; 11-06-2007 at 07:26 PM..
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