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Old 11-12-2007, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Camano Island, WA
1,913 posts, read 8,225,281 times
Reputation: 1114

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Our dogs are on BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) and are being banned or trying to be in allot of cities. Your dogs will be next. When they get 'pitbulls' then itll be German Shephears, then Labs, then Golden Retrievers etc etc etc. We all have to stick together and support good owners with good dogs.

More people need to OPEN up their eyes to the BSL reality. ^^^
I can proudly say I am one of the good owners with a good dog.

*I'm done with these threads...they ALWAYS turn into something else, unfortunately.
Sad thing is I think some people thrive to turn the threads into something else.
I'll stick with my local APBT clubs where like-minded people meet-up and discuss
the positives and not off track subjects.*

 
Old 11-12-2007, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,541 posts, read 16,351,968 times
Reputation: 5077
Quote:
Originally Posted by citybythebay View Post
More people need to OPEN up their eyes to the BSL reality. ^^^
I can proudly say I am one of the good owners with a good dog.

*I'm done with these threads...they ALWAYS turn into something else, unfortunately.
Sad thing is I think some people thrive to turn the threads into something else.
I'll stick with my local APBT clubs where like-minded people meet-up and discuss
the positives and not off track subjects.*
What APBT forums do you use ? I was contemplating starting an "Endgangered Dogs" group. Fight BSL and educate people and whatnot.
 
Old 11-12-2007, 02:43 PM
 
768 posts, read 1,925,518 times
Reputation: 427
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarriedWithOutChildren View Post
You can post whatever link you want Call it what you want!!
Thank you. Now what were you trying to add to this thread? Because so far you haven't had anything to add to it. Please don't forget: the topic is the ABPT breed of dog in the Pet forum.

P.S.--If you were trying to be PC when you used the phrase "mentally retarded", you failed. That is an old term which has negative connotations and is inadequate to cover the broad spectrum of disabilities for which it has been used. Personally, I find *that* term insulting and offensive, since you brought it up, but I didn't want to mention that and was trying to stay on topic. Now, again, what was it that you hoped to add to this thread about this particular breed of dog in the Pet forum?

Last edited by AnyDayNow; 11-12-2007 at 02:54 PM..
 
Old 11-12-2007, 02:45 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 8,069,804 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolepsy View Post
BUT BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF THE PITBULL BITE (VS THE CHI) ARENT YOU MORE LIKELY TO LOSE YOUR HEAD INSTEAD OF A MEASLEY THUMB? this is my question: why have a dog that is so powerful and so hard to control when needed? why?
Yes they are more powerful, which could obviously mean more damage. Anyone should admit that. But then why are you only asking about Pit Bulls. I realize that you did start the thread on them, BUT why are you choosing only one breed?

They are not hard to control. I have found them to be one of the easiest breeds to train and they are generally a people submissive breed. A dominant breed is going to be harder to train and if someone doesn't know how to do it a lot harder to control. I also like the fact that they quickly potty train vs other breeds I have.

There are many powerful breeds I can think of, some larger then the APBT.
Rottweiler, Doberman, German Shepherd, Alano Espanol, Cane Corso, Presa Canario, American Bulldog, Akita, Dogo Argentino, Boerboel, Belgian Shepherd, Bullmastiff, English Mastiff, Kangal, Fila, Anatolian, Chow, Dogue De Bordeaux, Tosa, this is just a few which are large, powerful and mostly dominant dogs which requires more training, firmer training and a real know how. Some more then others of course. As well most of the breeds, unlike the Pit Bull, have been bred for guard, protection and defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolepsy View Post
what about genetics? what about the dog's lineage? even if you have trained and raised your dog properly don't you worry that there could be some deep down hidden trait in your pitbulls that you just havent witnessed yet? a trait that he/she received from his relatives? of course this could be said about any breed but because of the power of the pittbull it seems more frightening to me.
You make a good point but then go no where with it. Exactly what about genetics. Since APBTs breeders have for a long time culled out human aggression the genetics are for a friendly dog who is willing to please. This means though that they might be overly friendly. Lineage is very important. So buy a dog from good lineage. I stress this over and over, I'm glad you at least brought this up. People will say out of ignorance "its all in how you raise them" or "Pit Bulls are only mean when trained to fight". Both false statements. First consideration is how the dog is bred, then socialized and raised. You can take a poorly bred dog and maybe get a decent dog or you can get a terror. You can take a well bred dog and ruin it or other times do everything wrong and still have a great dog. Breeding, natural temperament, personality and coping ability all play a major role. You can get dogs which are aggressive, fearful, ect from breeding. Genetics works BOTH ways. That makes sense doesn't it? It can't be any other way.

How does a 120lbs Presa Canario who has a bad temperament not seem frightening? I'm not a person who thinks they are dangerous, but it just seems weird for me for someone to fear one breed that is powerful and not others.

No I'm not at all worried about such a thing. They are dogs like any other and governed by genes. How can there be "something hidden" you are not making sense. Now if someone doesn't know the lineage I think you are right. If they get a dog and they don't know bloodlines, find a pup, adopt a pup, ect they can't know their dog will be stable even with correct training. Especially as a pup. They say their 4 month old pup has the best temperament of any Pit Bull they've seen. That is irrelevant, it is of course a good thing because some pups have issues, but that doesn't mean anything for the dog as an adult. Temperament problems usually start to develop as the dog matures, so what they don't know can be bad. However something can't just be hiding in the genes, it would have to show itself wouldn't it? So the lineage is important and if they have good temperaments so will your dog. If they get it from their relatives then their relatives would have had to have it at least some of them and since they don't I'm not worried. I have no concern at all that my lil pup will grow up and turn out bad, she is 7th generation from the bloodline and the person who had the couple generations back from that had stable dogs. The lines trace back to imports, no I wasn't there that long ago obviously but there are people which can attest for the temperament through generations. Just as we know which dogs were the man biters in history we also know that most the lines were stable from stable dogs. So there isn't anything to worry about for myself.

There isn't any deep down hidden trait of aggression or anything like that because it is against the nature of the breed and the lines have been kept this way for me. Maybe for someone else they will get a rude awakening from their dogs for not knowing whats behind them. I admit to having one dog of which we really didn't know so much about. Came from someone else, was given to DH. Out of having probably around 100 APBTs he is the only one that had a temperament issue. He was man aggressive and unpredictable. He was such a beautiful dog and would have been great in the show ring (physically) BUT man aggressive dogs eat dirt here. I have a zero tolerance for it. Later found out his dam was a man biter!!!!! I have been around 1000s of APBTs and only know of a handful of unstable dogs.
 
Old 11-12-2007, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 10,982,798 times
Reputation: 1658
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolepsy View Post
BUT BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF THE PITBULL BITE (VS THE CHI) ARENT YOU MORE LIKELY TO LOSE YOUR HEAD INSTEAD OF A MEASLEY THUMB? this is my question: why have a dog that is so powerful and so hard to control when needed? why?
Pitbulls aren't the only dogs that have enough power to hurt someone. Any large breed dog can do that if they want. I don't have pit bulls but I do like big dogs, so therefore I am taking the same risk of the dog hurting someone. I do think the risk increases with some breeds (especially guardian breeds), but proper training and supervision would get rid of that issue. I know I will never be that really strong owner that should ever own one of these breeds, so I won't. But I also know my own limits, that has nothing to do with the dog or their breed.

The real problem with pitbulls seems to be that stupid people are attracted to them for some reason. Although there does seem to be more media focused on them, have you ever noticed that the owners of the dogs that have attacked this one or that always seem to be defective also? I think that has a lot to do with it. That is something that unfortunately probably won't ever change. That's why people here that are all for the breed don't get it, because they have trained their dogs, spent time on them, and supervised them...which unfortunately a lot of people don't do.
 
Old 11-12-2007, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Hooterville, NV
216 posts, read 734,471 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyDayNow View Post
P.S.--If you were trying to be PC when you used the phrase "mentally retarded", you failed. That is an old term which has negative connotations and is inadequate to cover the broad spectrum of disabilities for which it has been used. Personally, I find *that* term insulting and offensive, since you brought it up, but I didn't want to mention that and was trying to stay on topic. Now, again, what was it that you hoped to add to this thread about this particular breed of dog in the Pet forum?
I have to take responsibility for the "mentally retarded" term - which I use because it's a pretty common term but I also don't take offense to "tard" or anything like it if it's not being directed in a personal way. I admit to not being very PC
 
Old 11-12-2007, 03:03 PM
 
98 posts, read 362,804 times
Reputation: 41
Default Yes, I know..

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyDayNow View Post
Thank you. Now what were you trying to add to this thread? Because so far you haven't had anything to add to it. Please don't forget: the topic is the ABPT breed of dog in the Pet forum.

P.S.--If you were trying to be PC when you used the phrase "mentally retarded", you failed. That is an old term which has negative connotations and is inadequate to cover the broad spectrum of disabilities for which it has been used. Personally, I find *that* term insulting and offensive, since you brought it up, but I didn't want to mention that and was trying to stay on topic. Now, again, what was it that you hoped to add to this thread about this particular breed of dog in the Pet forum?
Look, I added my two cents and you keep replying. You are right, it was off topic and I eluded to that in my original post.

I have a degree in Psychology/Sociology and work with the Intellectually & Developmentally Disabled on a daily basis...I know the PC term, but thought I may have to dumb it down for other people. Furthermore, the word originally used, 'tard', goes back to 'mentally retarded', hence my post on being offended by that word. I am not going to keep 'defending' my post, going back and forth, just as you do not feel that you have to defend your dog breed of choice.
 
Old 11-12-2007, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Hooterville, NV
216 posts, read 734,471 times
Reputation: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
That's why people here that are all for the breed don't get it, because they have trained their dogs, spent time on them, and supervised them...which unfortunately a lot of people don't do.
And people don't care if you do or not. If they are against pit bulls because they've been led by the media to believe they should be, there's no changing their minds for the most part. Most people are content in their ignorance.
 
Old 11-12-2007, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Camano Island, WA
1,913 posts, read 8,225,281 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
What APBT forums do you use ? I was contemplating starting an "Endgangered Dogs" group. Fight BSL and educate people and whatnot.

Brian, that would be awesome if you do.
I don't really go on any other APBT forums.
Reason being that so many ignorant people that know absolutely
nothing pertaining to the breed flock to forums like that to post their two cents
Along with their hype, or take a thread and go in a complete other direction...which gets really old after awhile.

I am TOTALLY convinced that without voice inflection we might as well talk
to a wall than get anywhere with people like that in a BB setting.

Online APBT forums turn into a back and forth headache...blah, blah, blah.
At least in "real" life where people meet with the same intentions don't
get involved in the ridiculous debates and everyone is there for a reason.

The APBT group I started is still in it's infancy. We have six members so far.
It's not paid by a sponsorship or anything like that.
We meet at my house twice a month right now and discuss the relevant issues.
BSL being one of them. Along with responsible ownership, training, adoption procedures, foster homes...etc...
 
Old 11-12-2007, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 10,982,798 times
Reputation: 1658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Five View Post
And people don't care if you do or not. If they are against pit bulls because they've been led by the media to believe they should be, there's no changing their minds for the most part. Most people are content in their ignorance.
No I think people would care a bit more if there were some positive press out there from responsible owners. At least there may be more open minded people out there. I go to a lot of dog events and have met many breeds so I actually am not afraid of any breed, but I've seen the best of the best from full breeds to mutts...so I am probably biased on the other side of the issue. I think it has everything to do with the owners and little to do with the dogs themselves.
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