Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ok well it doesn't really matter before yesterday how often he was going outside. Honestly, I couldn't tell you because we have had him out and about so much. If you don't like that answer oh well but I would take him out first thing, after he ate first meal, middle of day, another time before second feeding, after second feeding, and before bed, and of course in middle of the night. And no, I did not get him from a pet store. I got him from a breeder who did not train him in any way.It's in the past and I'm asking for advice for the current moment. He has no problem using the grass now. The issue that's occurring is if I see him peeing and take him outside to the grass and he does nothing and as soon as he comes in he will go again and sometimes go a second time in a matter of minutes. He isn't marking furniture, just certain carpet areas.
When I see him sniffing, I take him outside. How is that too late? That's telling us he needs to go. Heck as I was typing this I saw him sniffing and I let him out on the balcony and he went.
What happened in the PAST is a clue to what is going on NOW. LIKE HAVING A UTI. Do you seriously think that people can have a crystal ball and tell you what they think is going on or help him NOT KNOWING "the past"?? YOU didn't even mention a UTI you were worried about marking and neutering. Because you don't know what you don't know. NOW the "past" UTI is the main suspect.
The first thing a doctor does is get "a history" for humans OR animals.
Also I don't understand your post. You say he has no trouble going on the grass then say you take him on the grass then he won't go on the grass.
Seeing him sniffing before taking him out is too late because it's too late. You live on top of a high rise. By the time you get down it's too late. Sorry if his body is not conforming to your idea that you developed somehow. I posted to your before he needs to go out NO LATER THAN every four hours like clockwork not including twice at meals. And that was before I knew he had no training for 4 months and a UTI.
You posted you're taking him out:
am meal 2x,
mid-day,
later on meal 2x
and bedtime. (not including overnight) - so call it 4 times
That's not enough trips outside IMO, UTI or not. I would be doing every 3 hours (especially now that we know he had a UTI and was sick when he should have been learning housetraining). That means more like 6 times or 8 if you count twice for the meal
Quote:
It was for a very small UTI but it is now cleared up.
Oh jeeze. This changes everything. I'd take him to the vet on Monday. If you have his vet records they can see if a urinalysis/culture was done 10 days after treatment FINISHED. And do another one. Not all antibiotics cure every bacteria and it's possible he needs a different or additional class of antibiotic. If they did a follow up too soon it could have been too soon to show up if it was only partially resolved. Also can you really be sure the BREEDER gave the antibiotic for the prescribed period of time? This could turn into a serious thing, not to be played with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PAinSC
Won't he be able to chew those up? I just spoke to his vet (she was calling to check on him since he was on some antibiotics) and I brought this issue up. She said I really need to have him in the crate. When I was on the phone with her, he peed again! It was like the 5th or 6th time he did it in the house today! I thought by at least having him be on a leash and having it be tied to me, it would prevent him from peeing but it didn't. So now I have him in his crate. I feel sooo bad and guilty when I put him in there but I have no other choice. It's like he is taking advantage of me.
He's not taking advantage of you. He's only a baby. He was also recently sick; no small thing. AND NEVER HOUSE TRAINED BY AN IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDER IMO.
I'm not too thrilled with this vet's response and would be taking him elsewhere. IMO SHE should be concerned that the UTI may be "back".
Even IF his UTI is resolved that's just another reason why he's so far behind in training.
Rule in for UTI:
Recent UTI
Incontinence
Small amounts
Illogically going randomly even after being outside - going 3x in 30 minutes repeatedly
Rule out for UTI:
Previously urinated carpet
No housetraining for 4 months
Since he only held it ONCE for 3 hours at a friends, I don't think that really counts but...
I understand your frustration but seriously. YOU bought a puppy at 4 months old with no housetraining, who had a UTI, and live on the top floor of a high rise. Talk about a triple whammy. So don't blame HIM for "taking advantage of you".
And I would not remove his water. If he has a UTI HE NEEDS TO DRINK!
Last edited by runswithscissors; 09-08-2013 at 12:52 AM..
What happened in the PAST is a clue to what is going on NOW. LIKE HAVING A UTI. Do you seriously think that people can have a crystal ball and tell you what they think is going on or help him NOT KNOWING "the past"?? YOU didn't even mention a UTI you were worried about marking and neutering. Because you don't know what you don't know. NOW the "past" UTI is the main suspect.
The first thing a doctor does is get "a history" for humans OR animals.
Also I don't understand your post. You say he has no trouble going on the grass then say you take him on the grass then he won't go on the grass.
Seeing him sniffing before taking him out is too late because it's too late. You live on top of a high rise. By the time you get down it's too late. Sorry if his body is not conforming to your idea that you developed somehow. I posted to your before he needs to go out NO LATER THAN every four hours like clockwork not including twice at meals. And that was before I knew he had no training for 4 months and a UTI.
You posted you're taking him out:
am meal 2x,
mid-day,
later on meal 2x
and bedtime. (not including overnight) - so call it 4 times
That's not enough trips outside IMO, UTI or not. I would be doing every 3 hours (especially now that we know he had a UTI and was sick when he should have been learning housetraining). That means more like 6 times or 8 if you count twice for the meal
Oh jeeze. This changes everything. I'd take him to the vet on Monday. If you have his vet records they can see if a urinalysis/culture was done 10 days after treatment FINISHED. And do another one. Not all antibiotics cure every bacteria and it's possible he needs a different or additional class of antibiotic. If they did a follow up too soon it could have been too soon to show up if it was only partially resolved. Also can you really be sure the BREEDER gave the antibiotic for the prescribed period of time? This could turn into a serious thing, not to be played with.
He's not taking advantage of you. He's only a baby. He was also recently sick; no small thing. AND NEVER HOUSE TRAINED BY AN IRRESPONSIBLE BREEDER IMO.
I'm not too thrilled with this vet's response and would be taking him elsewhere. IMO SHE should be concerned that the UTI may be "back".
Even IF his UTI is resolved that's just another reason why he's so far behind in training.
Rule in for UTI:
Recent UTI
Incontinence
Small amounts
Illogically going randomly even after being outside - going 3x in 30 minutes repeatedly
Rule out for UTI:
Previously urinated carpet
No housetraining for 4 months
Since he only held it ONCE for 3 hours at a friends, I don't think that really counts but...
I understand your frustration but seriously. YOU bought a puppy at 4 months old with no housetraining, who had a UTI, and live on the top floor of a high rise. Talk about a triple whammy. So don't blame HIM for "taking advantage of you".
And I would not remove his water. If he has a UTI HE NEEDS TO DRINK!
PLEASE do not get smart or rude with me. Everyone else on this thread have been very helpful and to the point without sounding like a jerk. And I did mention he goes out in the middle of the night. I didn't mention the UTI because its gone. I also didn't mention it BECAUSE ITS NOT THE PROBLEM. IF IT WAS, HE WOULD BE PEEING ON ANY TYPE OF SURFACE AND IN HIS CRATE BC ITS A UTI! HE HAS NO ISSUE GOING ON ANY SURFACE BUT THE CARPET!!!! And if you don't understand that if I take him outside, wait for him to go, he walks around and just sits down and stares at me so I bring him in, and he decides to pee inside, then that's your problem. Obviously you haven't read my posts carefully because I have training grass on the balcony, so no, when I see him sniffing, I take him to the balcony and he goes. And he has gone out plenty of times during the day. Sorry I don't keep track of his pee schedule. A lot of people have wanted to see him so he's been to friends houses, training classes, vet check-ups, pet stores, etc. And I was the one who caught the UTI and started the antibiotics for him and had the vet make sure it's gone. So stop making it seem like I'm a horrible pet owner.
PS - The breeder had hardwood floors so that is what he is used to, hence what another poster was saying why he would be accustomed to that flooring and not carpet.
1) Of course a UTI is going to disrupt potty training.
2) You are dealing with what is known as a substrate preference. Research that as it applies to potty training.
The potty training process can feel like it is taking forever while you're in the thick of it, but ultimately it's a short term sacrifice for a long term payoff. Here are the basics:
- Frequent trips outside to maximize opportunities for success and therefore rewards. Whatever you think is frequent, make it even more often at first.
- Accompany dog outside each time. Reward for potties immediately, not once back inside. * Remember: rewards are defined by the dog, not what the human thinks is rewarding. Make sure you aren't bringing the dog directly inside after successful potties. We don't want to teach him that potties equal the end of outdoor time.
- Constant supervision so that all accidents can be caught and interrupted. The only time you can address an accident is when it is in progress. How you interrupt the accident is very important. If your interruption is intimidating or frightening you will end up with a "sneaky" dog who won't potty in front of people. Your interruption must convey "woops! wrong spot buddy - let's get you to the proper potty place asap" - not "no no bad dog". When he's caught in the act, interrupt by briskly moving toward him while clapping and saying "no no no no no" in a pleasant but urgent HIGH PITCHED tone then RUSH him outside to finish. If he finishes outside, big rewards, praise, and party. If he doesn't finish outside back inside and watch him like a hawk.
- Confine to a safe zone when direct supervision can not be provided. Safe zone means an area in which he is unlikely to eliminate. During times when you'll be briefly distracted consider tethering the dog to you/keeping him on leash to make sure you eliminate the possibility for accidents to go unnoticed.
- The worst thing that can happen: accident goes unnoticed. It is it's own reward i.e. "relieving" so he is in effect being rewarded for going in the house.
- Clean all accidents thoroughly with a specially formulated enzymatic cleaner such as Nature's Miracle or Simple Solution, NOT a regular household cleaner.
- Never ever show a dog his accident and then punish him for it. After the fact, the dog will NOT make the connection that you are punishing him for pooping in the house. All he'll learn is that you are a highly unstable psycho that lashes out at him unpredictably and for some weird reason involves poop in these meltdowns. If you want to punish someone for accidents, punish the person who was supposed to be watching the dog when the accident happened.
- Stick to a consistent feeding schedule and learn how soon after eating your pup tends to "go". Be mindful of water intake and let out accordingly.
- Learn your pup's unique "need to potty" signals and respond accordingly. Potty signals can include sniffing, circling, pacing, staring, vocalizations, and taking a break in play. Always bring pup outside right away after he wakes up in the morning or from a nap.
- We want your dog's experience to be: "Every time I go to potty in the house I get interrupted. Every time I potty outside, I get treats, praise, play and petting." He'll choose to potty outside.
Now here's a potty training plan for people who want to use the crate more often:
However, you absolutely do not need a crate to potty train IF you are able to provide supervision.
But really, the main issue you're dealing with is substrate preference. You indicate that he is conditioned to pee on carpet, not other types of surfaces. So we have to overcome that problem in order to move forward.
I also think that getting all scent of pee out of the carpet is of the utmost importance.
If your kitchen has flooring other than carpet you can use that space as a "safe zone" as an alternative to the crate for times when you cannot provide direct, focused supervision.
Keep at it, you'll get through this.
Thank you very much for this information, especially about the substrate preference. We were at a pet boutique the other day and the store had hardwood floors but he went and peed on a rug. So I think that's really the big issue as he thinks its either grass or he smells other dogs scents.
what about a few squares of real grass and replace it as it browns up?
I don't think that's necessary now. I just took him out for his middle of the night potty time and he had no problem going. He really doesn't have an issue using it now. It's just sometimes he goes on the balcony and chooses not to and comes inside and pees.
Thank you very much for this information, especially about the substrate preference. We were at a pet boutique the other day and the store had hardwood floors but he went and peed on a rug. So I think that's really the big issue as he thinks its either grass or he smells other dogs scents.
Substrate preference is basically about what a dog is conditioned to feel under his feet while he eliminates. So a paper trained puppy is going to become conditioned to pee on surfaces that feel like newspaper, a dog that lives in a carpeted home with no potty training is going to develop a habit of peeing on carpet, so any time a rug-like surface is underfoot he'll see that as a potential place to potty. Substrate preference works to our advantage when we train dogs to potty on grass - the dog learns to associate the feeling of earth under his feet with the act of eliminating. Eventually the grass itself triggers the dog to eliminate.
If I was potty training a dog with a substrate preference for carpet, what I'd do is limit his contact with carpet to minimize the possibility of accidents until he formed a replacement preference. I would of course allow him on carpet when I really wanted him in a carpeted room for whatever reason, but those are the times I'd be expecting him to start to pee, which just presents me with the opportunity to interrupt and take him to the proper potty area to finish. I want to break the HABIT of peeing on carpet, and if you've ever quit a habit you know it takes day after day of NOT doing that thing in order to stop for good. So for example if this dog just simply does not have the opportunity to potty on carpet for the next 2 months, we will certainly achieve a shift in substrate preference.
Lady Peed on carpet for a Long time WHY Cause her breeder Left her in a Carpet Lined cage she had no choice! Yet she had Hardwood floors. So Start over! When he Pees & Poos he Get FREEDOM! But only for short while 10 min to start then back in crate for 30 mins then back out to Pee in correct area...where you want. Then another 10 mins of FREEDOM on the carpet to play etc over & over & over... After a WEEK of no accidents you can extend the time on carpet to 15 mins. IF he messes in the crate WASH him he needs to Learn what Clean smells & feels like & NO Cloth or Carpet in the crate. Buy plenty of Vinager & Paper Towels!
When Lady Breeder Finally told me what she done I found this & followed it to the T... At 2.5 yrs old she had Whole House freedom for 6 months No Accidents on or off the carpet...goes right to her potty area inside its a Litter box with newspaper other wise she goes outside In the grass! Where I get to clean it up LOL http://www.ehow.com/how_5766598_hous...uppy-mill.html
I Not saying your dog nor my LadyBug came from a puppy mill just some breeders dont think what they do & don't allow when pups are newborn counts. I Always had towels & rugs under Nursing moms for better traction I Never After pups were totally on there own left towels for them to potty on I switch to paper. Once they were 12 weeks the went out side! Several times a day. For play potty. Lady is the 1st dog & I pray the only dog I had to deal with this problem...good luck reprograming your dogs mind!
Last edited by Katie1; 09-08-2013 at 01:03 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
