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Just started Bruno 8 year old, 95 lb chocolate lab, on it for Cushings disease. He was quite ill about a month ago with a bladder infection and has fully recovered.
However he is urinating in the house and I'm unsure if it is behavioral and/or medical. He has excessive thrist which makes for excessive urination. He's not doing either as much since the bladder infection cleared but both are also symptoms of hypothroid/Cushings.
My brother is saying he thinks the sudden increase in house soiling is a side effect of the medication. I find that difficult to believe since he's only taken it for a couple of days. I don't know how long it takes to titrate to efficacy but I'd think more than a couple of days. I didn't see it listed as a side effect for humans, I couldn't find any listed for dogs.
It's not enough of an issue at this point to call/visit the vet as he doesn't do it consistently which I think indicates it may be behavioral vs. medical. I've noted that he will ask to go out and if we don't respond quickly enough he'll relieve himself inside, sometimes right in front of us. I'm wondering if bladder training works with dogs??
The 'back' story is he lived with my brother for a few years and I think he may not have paid attention to the dog when he asked to go out. And now the dog's behavior is reflective of that neglect, but I'm unsure and equally unsure how to approach the problem, or problems.
Blood work doesn't indicate diabetes, but we thought that too at first as did the vet. Thyroid is low, his skin was a mess and he's always hungry and had zero energy so Cushings is the current diagnosis. But I still wonder if it isn't a combination of thyroid and behavior? It's difficult to figure out in humans but I have no idea how to do it with a dog since he can't tell me how he feels, I have to rely on my observations which can be waaaaaaaaaay off.
Blood work doesn't indicate diabetes, but we thought that too at first as did the vet. Thyroid is low, his skin was a mess and he's always hungry and had zero energy so Cushings is the current diagnosis. But I still wonder if it isn't a combination of thyroid and behavior? It's difficult to figure out in humans but I have no idea how to do it with a dog since he can't tell me how he feels, I have to rely on my observations which can be waaaaaaaaaay off.
OK those symptoms are for thyroid not JUST Cushings. And that medicine is for thyroid. So .....are you SURE they give it for Cushings? I'm no expert but I don't think so, in fact I think there's a theory that there's some linkage between people who take Synthroid and THEN develop Cushings. But don't quote me. I never really paid strict attention to my Cushings dogs' meds and haven't been doing them lately.
You're in a tricky area now. Possible concurrent/secondary diseases.
They must have had a sale on Cushings Training for Vets lately - I'm hearing so many dogs being "pre-diagnosed" based on nothing, really then tests not confirming it anyway. The very FIRST thing I think with skin/hair is thyroid. It's also the first thing I think of when someone reports unexplained anxiety/grouchiness even aggression. The last one I had was a fat beagle who was shaky, panting, tremoring, circling, then collapsing still panting...couldn't support her own weight... obviously in pain and not able to eat unless I hand fed her. Long story short the owners claimed dementia and I made them go to the vet who thought it was Cushings because I dont' know why. She's 13 and collapsing? And fat and drinks alot (because they leave her and the other two outside in 99 degree Florida heat!). She had a back injury NO Cushings LOL.
Anyway, join the Yahoo Cushings group, they can give you statistical probabilities of everything and other people's successes and failures. There are GUARANTEED many dogs on there with both thyroid and Cushings etc. Someone else here recommended this group too: Canine Cushing's Information and Support Forums - Powered by vBulletin
Sometimes the adverse reactions are slightly different in dogs with meds. Like Reglan makes people anxious and nervous and grouchy but on a megaesophagus dog it's like they're on LSD (not even hyperbole). It can make some horses so nuts they break OUT of their stalls and barns.
I did see a couple of people report incontinence on Synthroid around the internet. And for sure a side effect is some nervousness and other stuff that I could make a case that it's related.
Dr Dodds is the expert in this area (and epilepsy) if you want to read more, I remember her having alot of info out there. Her testing lab is extremely popular with these hard cases, too.
Now that he's a rule in for Cushings and has thyroid, housetraining should be a bit forgivable, IMO. YOu can also go with a belly band. He IS going to eventually have a bladder problem if he has Cushings and it progresses over time. My BFF's dog was diagnosed years ago and she REFUSED to EVER go in the house. She never had symptoms and still really doesn't. Except now she's having trouble with stairs (she's 14 and 1/2) ...about 4 years later she uses training pads when she can't hold it. OR she goes in the SHOWER! She thought of that on her own!
He's going to drink more IMO and there's an adjustment period. I'm so glad you caught that! He's a lucky bog. Make sure nobody is withholding water from him unless a vet directs it. There's also some linkage with doing that and epilepsy and that's another disease you don't need!
Last edited by runswithscissors; 09-22-2013 at 10:47 AM..
I really doubt it's the thyroid hormone. It could be as simple as continuing effects of the UTI. Or maybe it's not completely cleared up.
Thyroid hormone takes about 6 weeks or so (if the dosage is correct) to take full effect in humans. I suspect it's not much different in dogs (although their metabolism is quite a bit different). Note that is IF the dosage is correct. It's often the case that the dosage will need to be adjusted a few times before everything gets evened out.
As for the relationship between Cushing/Thyroid/Diabetes (which the urinating symptoms you describe sound VERY MUCH like) they are all auto-immune disorders. And there is some kind of relationship between those. Generally if a person has one, they are much more susceptible to others. I've had thyroid problems for years and was recently diagnosed with diabetes. My Sally dog had thyroid problems when we adopted her and was diagnosed with diabetes about 6 years later.
If there is any chance at all this is diabetes related, get your pup back to the vet, you don't want to mess around with that.
You might also consider a change in food to something lower in carbohydrates/fat and something "low-glycemic".
I really doubt it's the thyroid hormone. It could be as simple as continuing effects of the UTI. Or maybe it's not completely cleared up.
Thyroid hormone takes about 6 weeks or so (if the dosage is correct) to take full effect in humans. I suspect it's not much different in dogs (although their metabolism is quite a bit different). Note that is IF the dosage is correct. It's often the case that the dosage will need to be adjusted a few times before everything gets evened out.
As for the relationship between Cushing/Thyroid/Diabetes (which the urinating symptoms you describe sound VERY MUCH like) they are all auto-immune disorders. And there is some kind of relationship between those. Generally if a person has one, they are much more susceptible to others. I've had thyroid problems for years and was recently diagnosed with diabetes. My Sally dog had thyroid problems when we adopted her and was diagnosed with diabetes about 6 years later.
If there is any chance at all this is diabetes related, get your pup back to the vet, you don't want to mess around with that.
You might also consider a change in food to something lower in carbohydrates/fat and something "low-glycemic".
Oh right, the UTI. I'd get it rechecked for sure.
And yeah, don't mess with diabetes for real.
I also noticed I failed to mention that dog I was talking about had the back injury but also came back with thyroid on her tests - very low. She's like a different dog now on the thyroid meds and pain meds. But she had no urinary symptoms either.
The vet diagnosed Cushings before Bru started on the med, it's been less than a week. I seriously doubted it was the med but my brother is a stone head so I told him I'd ask after all what do I know about dog respone to meds? Zip, that's what. I've seen some weird reactions to meds in humans, tongue suddenly protuding, that may sound funny it's not if it happens you're in serious trouble.
I'm sure if it's his thyroid and the dose is correct we'll see changes. Goofy hormones cause all sorts of problems in humans and I'd think it'd be similar in other mammals. He's more active now that he's feeling better and urinating/drinking less but it remains excessive. I hadn't thought to have the UTI re-checked, can you say, 'DUH!?' I certainly can't ask him if it burns when he goes. Thanks for the suggestion!
The vet diagnosed Cushings before Bru started on the med, it's been less than a week. I seriously doubted it was the med but my brother is a stone head so I told him I'd ask after all what do I know about dog respone to meds? Zip, that's what. I've seen some weird reactions to meds in humans, tongue suddenly protuding, that may sound funny it's not if it happens you're in serious trouble.
I'm sure if it's his thyroid and the dose is correct we'll see changes. Goofy hormones cause all sorts of problems in humans and I'd think it'd be similar in other mammals. He's more active now that he's feeling better and urinating/drinking less but it remains excessive. I hadn't thought to have the UTI re-checked, can you say, 'DUH!?' I certainly can't ask him if it burns when he goes. Thanks for the suggestion!
You're right, the reactions are basically the same. Like if you read the medline plus labels. Sometimes just more pronounced/hidden. Cuz like you say, they can't talk! Years after vets telling me I was overreacting to the Reglan (on our board survey 75% had bad adverse reactions)...there was a class action on the drug for the very same thing. But because Mega-E is a neuro disease humans don't get - the dogs' adverse reactions were much more pronounced. Also because humans "hide" it better than dogs. or vice versa. Or humans think the dog is "just being a dog" urinating or getting grouchy/snappy or whatever. "Oh he just doesn't feel well". When it's actually the drug.
Dogs do the tongue thing, too! But it also turns into involuntary nose licking!
The recommended water guideline is one ounce of water per lb of his weight, per day. If you want to measure it out and chart it to see if its actually excessive. The variables are, of course, weather, activity, and dry food versus other foods. Dogs who eat canned or raw drink lots less.
Just make sure your bro isn't withholding water out of some misguided thought that it'll stop urinating in the house. Lots of people do that and it makes things worse.
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The very FIRST thing I think with skin/hair is thyroid. It's also the first thing I think of when someone reports unexplained anxiety/grouchiness even aggression. The last one I had was a fat beagle who was shaky, panting, tremoring, circling, then collapsing still panting...couldn't support her own weight... obviously in pain and not able to eat unless I hand fed her. Long story short the owners claimed dementia and I made them go to the vet who thought it was Cushings because I dont' know why. She's 13 and collapsing? And fat and drinks alot (because they leave her and the other two outside in 99 degree Florida heat!). She had a back injury NO Cushings LOL. 
He IS going to eventually have a bladder problem if he has Cushings and it progresses over time. My BFF's dog was diagnosed years ago and she REFUSED to EVER go in the house. She never had symptoms and still really doesn't. Except now she's having trouble with stairs (she's 14 and 1/2) ...about 4 years later she uses training pads when she can't hold it. OR she goes in the SHOWER! She thought of that on her own! 
