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Old 09-20-2013, 07:48 AM
 
Location: On the corner of Grey Street
6,071 posts, read 8,365,038 times
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Hi everyone! Hope you're all doing well! Max and I completed another cross country move a couple months ago. We moved back to Virginia to be closer to family and for me to take a new job. We are settling in nicely and I am adopting another dachshund, so Max will have a brother! Charlie was supposed to stay with me temporarily as a foster dog until dachshund rescue could find him a permanent home. The rescue pulled him out of a shelter and he is a great dog - so great that I can't part with him, so I am joining the "foster failure" club!

Charlie is really really really skinny. I know Max could probably stand to lose a pound or two, but Charlie is all skin and bones. I've had him about a month now and I've been feeding him a high quality food (Blue Buffalo) twice a day, but he hasn't really gained any weight yet. Does anyone have any advice? Should I feed three meals a day? Add in extra protein like boiled chicken? Is it abnormal he hasn't put on any weight yet? He acts healthy. No abnormal poos, he has lots of energy, good appetite, etc. I don't know anything about his past. He was dumped at the shelter by someone who said someone else gave him Charlie and he didn't want him. He was at the shelter for a couple weeks and about to be put down when the wonderful amazing dachshund rescue stepped in. So, he very well could have been starved/mistreated prior to coming to live with me. He has been seen by a vet (orchestrated by the rescue so I was not there), and even had a dental, and as far as I know the vet said he is healthy.

Any advice would be much appreciated!
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:47 AM
 
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Yes I'd add a meal. Maybe add some canned unless you don't want to "create a monster" LOL. If you go to the Blue website you can compare the KCALS of each "flavor" and use the one with the most calories if he doesn't have allergies etc. That's one step that's not so radical. Change over a period of about 2 weeks slowing adding new flavor till you complete the change over.

Blue has a good amount of fat (compared to say, Pedigree) so I'm surprised he's not gaining a bit but a month isn't very long, I guess. Ar you weighing him or eyeballing?

Then: I wouldn't do chicken since that's a low calorie food. I would maybe think about changing foods altogether to a more weight building food like Solid Gold. When I sold dog food, some breeds just didn't do well on certain foods. Example my bulldog gained too much on Solid Gold (8 lbs in a month!!) but was perfect on California Natural. But my customers with Rotts or Great Danes did not thrive on Cal Natural and were too skinny so they did better on Solid Gold and Eukanuba. I don't really know why that is because the KCals are similar but the Hund-n-Flocken Adult Dog has lots more grain than Cal Nat. Euk has a high active performance food with higher protein and fat etc so that makes sense to me but I guess it really depends on the entire ingredient composition.

I'm just mentioning these brands but there are lots of brands now to pick from

But before taking on that giant undertaking and dealing with having two dogs and the food thing, maybe add Satin Balls. There are alot of sites with the recipe and variations. We use them for weight building or maintaining weight on our megaesophagus dogs (it's a disease preventing animals from eating and/or absorbing food). Rescues use them and show people, too. SHORT TERM or supplement just occasionally or just one a day or something...(unless it's a mega e dog or some other disease).

Here's the basic recipe scaled down from the giant recipe to 1/10th of the volume for small dog trial:

1 pound cheap raw hamburger (for high fat %) (or turkey 70/30)
1 1/3 cups Total cereal
1 1/2 cups uncooked oatmeal
1 raw egg
6 tablespoons wheat germ
1 package Knox unflavored gelatin
2 tablespoons oil
2 tablespoons unsulphured molasses
Pinch of salt

Don't overhandle the meat, mix everything after the meat up...then put the meat in a cold bowl (I use a stainless mixer bowl) then mix the ingredients together, make "balls" with a melon baller, and freeze in batches. Work quick I scoop them onto parchment paper, freeze like that, then remove the frozen balls and put in freezer baggies or small tupperware. So they don't stick together.

You are supposed to feed Satin Balls in a base of raw meat because of the fat content but if you are adverse to that you can make them cooked. I did that for a 17 yr old I watch for a lady with dementia.

I made a version of the Satin Ball recipe:

Baked sweet potatoes and chicken thighs then mashed & shredded and added the wheat germ, Total cereal, molasses, coconut oil, oat, egg, Knox. I also started out with raw ground beef but it was too cumbersome driving there with it etc.

Don't be put off with the ingredients of Satin Balls, they are in there for a reason. The formal recipe includes Total cereal because of all the vitamins in it, for example.

Always check with your vet before this. Also make sure you take him to a vet you never know what really happened at the former custodian's. And chart how much he's actually eating. It could be he has something that didn't show up with a basic exam like thyroid. But a full panel thyroid is only what really shows the full picture and they're not cheap.

Cue the pearl clutching over the ingredients in 5...4...3...2...
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Old 09-20-2013, 10:43 AM
 
Location: On the corner of Grey Street
6,071 posts, read 8,365,038 times
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LOL no pearl clutching here!! Thank you so much for your thoughtful advice! Much appreciated!
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:38 PM
 
Location: The Help Desk
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Dogs don't need grain, nor do they need meat cooked. Who cooks for wolves?

My rescue smartly gained ten pounds eating raw hamburger and raw turkey.
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Old 09-20-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
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One month. Relax a little bit. It is much more healthy for him to be a little thin and if he needs to gain weight, it should be put onto him very gradually. A bunch of high calorie rich food is not good for him.

Unless you can fit your fingers between his ribs, he is not too thin. Feed him good food, in the correct amounts, make sure he has been thoroughly dewormed, and relax. His weight will gradually float up, especially if he is young. Young healthy active dogs tend to be thin.

Extra weight is very bad for dachshunds. Both of those hounds should be kept a bit on the thin side for the health of their backs.

If he is very active, he might need a few extra kibbles added to his dinner over what the recommended amount it.
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Old 09-20-2013, 04:00 PM
 
Location: North Western NJ
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Satin Balls all the way for sinny and hard to gain/maintain dogs!!!
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Northern California
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I know some people swear by oatmeal for extremely active dogs, and we give it to our own occasionally with his normal food. We have also used a modified version of satin balls.

However, if you haven't the dog very long, weight gain takes time. It's also better to have a dog that is slightly too thin over too fat.
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Old 09-21-2013, 04:31 AM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,193,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Help Desk View Post
Dogs don't need grain, nor do they need meat cooked. Who cooks for wolves?

My rescue smartly gained ten pounds eating raw hamburger and raw turkey.
Yes "most" dogs don't need the grain. But dogs with certain diseases or GI issues DO need the fractionalized grains because raw meat fat content and proteins create acids that linger in the GI because of slow motility. And slow motility causes acid reflux and other life threatening conditions like megaesophagus which can kill a dog very quickly. There are two medications for slow motility and neither one is a walk in the park, in fact, Reglan causes severe adverse reactions not limited to aggression, paranoia, anxiety, insomnia, incontinence, and other fun neurological problems like whining, circling, facial tics, drooling and getting lost facing walls or outside in the yard. The half life is five whole days if you're lucky sometimes the conditions are irreversible. Then you get to watch your dog act like they're on LSD day and night.

Also, it should be stipulated that if you are not feeding bone with the meat, a diet of just raw meat is not complete, albeit I'm sure you only supplemented with that for a short time, but some readers may not be familiar and think it's ok to just feed raw meat by itself.

Also, the oat balances the GI in terms of preventing diarrhea or constipation. Rice blows up in the colon, but oat bran is a control for dogs (and humans) who tend to have both conditions (as long as they don't need an antibiotic for a bacteria or if the diarrhea gets out of hand if for example, they ate acorns or berries outside). Also very helpful for IBD or IBS with projectile diarrhea during a thunderstorm or panic attack type thing instead of medicating them while you're trying to find the fix longer term.

Not every dog comes with the complete picture especially over the internet.

Check it out how many times people talk about "sensitive stomachs" then you look at their photo albums and see all kinds of crap like pigs ears, rawhide etc.

There is also the issue that not every human wants to feed raw. It's my belief that we should respect that choice and provide alternatives. You're not going to change most people's minds anyway if they're not "the type" to feed raw bones and meat. As a pet sitter I've had hundreds of dogs with owners spending a fortune and I mean even single people paying $23,000 in one year for my services. And EXACTLY ONE raw feeder out of the bunch.

Right now I work for an athlete who is pretty well known in the community. He knows about nutrition. I noticed the dogs all of a sudden have a huge loose stool and accidents in the house near the patio door. On my way out of the garage I found a 50 lb empty bag in the trash. Purina Dog Chow. It's not what they fed before.

My 17 year old client takes her meds in chicken breast pill pockets I poach. I switched her to baked thighs to put weight on. The difference in the dark meat compared to white is tremendous. The pills barely stay in the meat it's so heavy and greasy. Much more difficult for me to handle, too. And I use Easy Cheese for the "glue" LOL. I WANTED the heavier meat but just sayin'...

Also, I'm not thrilled with feeding her cooked fats in the meat but because of her living conditions (dementia owner in assisted living) I can't really do raw because I go there 2-3 times a day and can't leave the Satin Balls or raw meat in the owner's apartment. So I choose to not let the PERFECT be the enemy of the compromise.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 09-21-2013 at 05:11 AM..
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:15 AM
 
Location: The Help Desk
255 posts, read 543,265 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post

Also, it should be stipulated that if you are not feeding bone with the meat, a diet of just raw meat is not complete, albeit I'm sure you only supplemented with that for a short time, but some readers may not be familiar and think it's ok to just feed raw meat by itself.


Check it out how many times people talk about "sensitive stomachs" then you look at their photo albums and see all kinds of crap like pigs ears, rawhide etc.
Wife feeds the kibble, it's sweet potato and salmon.

Help me with the raw meat thing. What should I add? I currently add coconut oil, grass fed butter, cod liver oil, oregano oil, iodine and Concentrace minerals.

They also like blackberries, cherry tomatoes and a few other veggies.
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:19 AM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,193,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Help Desk View Post
Wife feeds the kibble, it's sweet potato and salmon.

Help me with the raw meat thing. What should I add? I currently add coconut oil, grass fed butter, cod liver oil, oregano oil, iodine and Concentrace minerals.

They also like blackberries, cherry tomatoes and a few other veggies.
Well the Salmon and potato sounds like a limited ingredient diet for allergy - is that why or just because she likes it? I wouldn't change the protein if the dog has allergies or I'd be very cautious.

There was a thread here that drifted into raw feeding I'll find it and put it up for you to read through.

I would not use the blackberries, they gave my bulldog and mother's Lab bloody diarrhea - while some dogs might tolerate them I prefer to try and not invite Irritable Bowel.

Usually people stick with all raw meat and bones "RMB" (and some add things that might resemble what a dog would eat out of the stomach of it's "kill" and that's called the BARF diet)....OR kibble. Not a diet of both simultaneously. Of course this doesn't mean you can't give Satin Balls or something on the side. I guess a few people feed the raw meat and bones as a treat weekly or something along with kibble.

I don't think it's good to mix the two in a meal because they digest at different rates.

It all depends on what you want to do. If you want to supplement the kibble with a raw treat every now and then (what it sounds like you want to do) you can go with the raw bones NEVER EVER COOKED. Most people do a beginner trial with a chicken wing. Some people grind up the bone with the meat like me, because Bulldogs are accident prone and have jacked up teeth, jaws and trachea/esophagus etc and are scared the dog will choke. Mine even aspirated eating raw ground up and was in ICU for 5 days $5000.00 (aspiration pneumonia).

You're feeding alot of fats/oils. I believe animal fat and coconut fat is healthy (cue the pearl clutching) but you're messing with the composition of the kibble and I'm not too crazy about that idea. I'm also surprised you don't have a really loose stool. The iodine and minerals I don't know what or why you're doing but I'd review with your vet. Make sure you're not interfering with the contents of the kibble. When a dog gets admitted to all the well respected vet hospitals they will NOT permit ad hoc additions to diet like that or even herbs because it's dangerous. Kinda like a person on a blood thinnner are supposed to be very cautious with vitamins or foods with high Vitamin K. I saw a woman keep SNEAKING herbs into U of P hospital and the staff had an alert on her! She REFUSED to stop and causing disturbances so they kicked her and her dog OUT.

My 17 year old client weighed in at a half pound more yesterday in a month of trying...and I was so happy the Satin Balls and changing to a canned food that is STEW not ground (which she inhales) worked. I also added a 3rd meal.

She used to be 16 lbs, the owner let her deteriorate to 10 !!! with her dementia. Once the family got her into assisted living and hired a sitter, the former sitter got her up to 13.5 but the owner was still over feeding Milkbones which I put a stop to when I took the job. But she dropped to 12.5 lbs. So last month I started one or two 3/4 inch Satin Balls per day for two weeks. I didn't want to fill her up with them and tried different canned foods because she was not crazy about her existing food. Then when I switched her food from that - Hills prescription which she really didn't need once we stopped the stupid Milkbones...she started woofing the stew down. YAY. Plain old Science Diet small breed senior. I also mixed several other ones in the mix like Innova etc but nobody else makes senior small bites and stews!! WTH it's pretty obvious that senior dogs may love stews! sigh. Anyway YAY for her. She's 13 lbs now.

No thanks to the owner who fed her a bunch of pork and gravy from her dinner last night behind my back so she has some diarrhea today. FACEPALM. LOL poor girl.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 09-22-2013 at 09:40 AM..
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