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Old 10-20-2013, 11:41 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
509 posts, read 354,212 times
Reputation: 712

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Bear with me while i'm writing a long novel about my soon to be 13 year old male Boxer who was diagonized with IBD in Jan of this year.

our household compromise of me as a 7 months pregnant housewife along with hubby and our 2.5 year old toddler with a female 10 year old Boxer who's healthy. I'm at my breaking point over my sick male dog with a husband who's stressed out and flatly doesn't want to spend any more $$ on vet bills.

After initially figuring out my dog had IBD, we put him on a strict grain free diet we get from our vet that retails around 50 bucks (a lot cheaper than store retail selling it for 78 bucks) and it seemed to have worked until spring when my dog started losing weight rapidly. We upped his food intake to 2 cups per meal twice a day after feeding him 1.5 a cup twice, it didn't seem to work somewhat. He stopped losing weight but isn't gaining anything though and is now 58 pounds when should be 65-68lbs ideally. That's when our sick dog started behaving so unlike him and bleeding rectally. So, we took him back to the vet for various testings, parasite testings which had him taking his meds, deworming and everything else to rule out anything else. We finally found a medication that worked over the summer when he wasn't bleeding anymore, but behavior wise was becoming more destructive. He would rip the den apart (knocking down lamps, chew tv remotes, eat fire logs, etc) or eat anything that was on the kitchen counters. That was after letting him and the other dog have free run of den/kitchen for 8 years without any problems, so we started crating them in the den. However, the male dog would really mess up his crate by ****ting and throwing up bile all over inside crate, leaving me a guaranteed mess to clean up every.single.time i went out/coming home. By that point, it was happening daily. So hubby came up with the idea of just gating both dogs freely in the den only using our baby steel gate in the doorway. That didn't work well as he would still destroy stuff within the den, and now we have side tables, coffee table all scratched up and 4 broken lamps we've replaced so far.

Until one day i came home to let the dogs out, and took my toddler outside for a walk then came back in the house to let dogs in and left them inside the den with gate up while i went out again with toddler. I came back inside to only have my female boxer really going at my sick elderly dog, it gotten so bad requiring an emergency vet trip on a saturday evening with a tired toddler. Dog was all bloodied up, fur all gone from his face, deep lacreation marks around his ear/eye requiring stitiches. That was the last straw for hubby who just want to surrender both dogs as he was worried how they'll behave around my toddler and the new baby due after new years. Few days later, sick dog escaped the gate and went upstairs to our toddler's room while we were out, and destroyed his room by eating/tearing up 50% of books, toys eaten up and blinds on windows all tore out.

medically, he's back to bleeding rectally, despite being on the same diet as he was all year, so i took him to our regular vet and was on medication which helped his bleeding under control, took x rays (again) and found nothing. Vet wants to do explorative surgery and colonscopy but hubby doesn't want to shell out more money as we've spend 6.5k in vet bills since Jan alone. I'm pregnant with #2 and honestly do feel stressed out to the max by taking him out of house to do his deed every hour on the clock, otherwise he'll just go inside the house. i also dread coming home from my errands, outings with toddler, etc daily to be praying to have an intact house and unfortunately 95% it's not intact, always something ive to clean up/fix!

i really don't know how to handle my dog's needs when i have a newborn to take care of and a toddler who wants to go outside daily. I'm feeling like i want to put my sick dog down to sleep since he's old, serious medical issues and very destrustive behavior issues that i don't feel right to surrender this dog. Hubby on the other hand wants to give both away, even though our younger healthy boxer is fine and doesn't give us problems.

any advice??
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Old 10-20-2013, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Simmering in DFW
6,948 posts, read 19,389,010 times
Reputation: 7202
My advice is to have your 13 year old boxer put to sleep. I am a volunteer with a Boxer rescue group. Your dog is very old for a boxer and it would be incredibly cruel to take him to a shelter, where they would put him down and he would have the trauma of watching you desert him, then he would cry all day or shake with fright before strangers grabbed him and put him on a cold metal table and injected him.

Better you should feed him a nice steak dinner, take him for a short walk and then bring a blanket or his favorite bed with him to the vet while you hold and stroke him and he drifts off feeling the comfort and love of his owners.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
4,704 posts, read 10,126,357 times
Reputation: 8525
It sounds like quality of life for the old guy ( and for you) is not great. The poor old guy is old and sick so there is nothing wrong with putting him down you have tried and things just are not improving. If you took him to a shelter chances are very high he will not get adopted and if he did new owners might not be so caring so grant him that last act of kindness and love and put him down so he knows he was loved right up to the end.

As for your female I would keep her,Just because she beat up the male does not mean she has aggression issues. I am assuming she is fine with your toddler and people in general and that has not changed and has had no prior aggression issues.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Hot Springs, Arkansas
389 posts, read 1,003,463 times
Reputation: 454
It's time.
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Old 10-20-2013, 01:36 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,129,393 times
Reputation: 17198
Thank you for caring enough to reach out one last time.

Have him put to sleep. It is the compassionate thing to do. From your writing I don't think you really understand how SERIOUS your dog is. You added "ulcer" as almost an afterthought.

The PRIMARY dx is the gastric ulcer the secondary dx is the IBD which comes from the ulcer which comes from Helicobacter Pylori bacteria.

How and when did you get the diagnosis - from a scope?

The meds? You didn't mention the name so how is anyone supposed to help you, no offense.

Did YOU ABSOLUTELY GIVE THE MEDS AS DIRECTED INCLUDING THE CARAFATE????

You should have been giving two antibiotics, a PPI like Prevacid and Carafate.

If it was Reglan that was added and he got crazy... that is a typical adverse reaction. Your vet will deny that. I did a study in my megaesophagus board and 75% of ALL DOGS have some form of adverse reaction like that. My dog was like he was on LSD. Horses jump right through the barn doors on it. There was a class action suit for humans because of it.

The half life is 5 whole days and sometimes the side effects are irreversible.

The FIRST mistake with IBD was to put him on grain free and not for IBD. The proper food for this dog is fractionalized grain/carbs and very low MILD proteins and very low fat. Hills ID low residue. PRESCRIPTION The fat is causing acid burning into his body.

As you found out. But all the "experts" on the internet who not only don't know what they're talking about but never LIVED with an extensive case like this....love to TRASH the first preferred choice for IBD Hills ID food. A miracle food..

if this vet food was not for IBD then your vet was wrong.

Read ANYTHING by Dr Robert Washabau, a nationally recognized expert. Or anything from say, Cornell etc.

Regardless, as much extensive experience as I have in this disease it's just too much for me to think about and type out and I doubt at this point it would be helpful. Some days I just cannot get depressed over dogs and ruin my day reliving my own dog's awful experience with gastric ulcer, IBD and MEGAESOPHAGUS. NO offense, really. After some time, this condition can turn to stomach cancer.

Tell your husband I said how cowardly. To dump the dog instead of properly seeing him out peacefully. I also will pray tonight that he gets the biggest nastiest gastric ulcer possible. Then you can put duck tape on his mouth so he can't speak about pain or symptoms and let doctors GUESS what's wrong. I have no patience with abusers.



ETA there is a teeny tiny remote chance that if you get OFF the Reglan (an assumption) and address the ULCER correctly, he MIGHT reverse.

He is special needs and survived pretty long now that I reread since JANUARY. But then again, probably not. I just usually do NOT give up when I think the owners were non compliant. And my guess is with your "busy" life you did not give the carafate properly , as is the case with most people. No offense.

Last edited by runswithscissors; 10-20-2013 at 02:00 PM..
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:06 PM
 
10,604 posts, read 14,129,393 times
Reputation: 17198
And the fight is to be expected because the female was REACTING to his unstable energy in the absence of a LEADER in the house helping/controlling him.

LONG before Cesar Milan was on TV, a friend from my megaesophagus board met with him on a consultation and he very nicely told her until she gets the pack in order and treats her sick dog a certain way, the others would be aggressive.

And that's exactly what happened. She made a conscious choice to live in an unstable pack because she refused to accept that treating her sick dog any other way was an option.

They DID remain friends and she later said he was 100% right.

Do NOT blame the female, she's the only one that knows what needs to be done. NOW, step up and get the peace back into the house and show HER calm assertive leadership, that she is NOT responsible to make it happen, that you are there to do that and she can trust you.
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Old 10-20-2013, 05:13 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
509 posts, read 354,212 times
Reputation: 712
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
Thank you for caring enough to reach out one last time.

Have him put to sleep. It is the compassionate thing to do. From your writing I don't think you really understand how SERIOUS your dog is. You added "ulcer" as almost an afterthought.

The PRIMARY dx is the gastric ulcer the secondary dx is the IBD which comes from the ulcer which comes from Helicobacter Pylori bacteria.

How and when did you get the diagnosis - from a scope?

The meds? You didn't mention the name so how is anyone supposed to help you, no offense.

Did YOU ABSOLUTELY GIVE THE MEDS AS DIRECTED INCLUDING THE CARAFATE????

You should have been giving two antibiotics, a PPI like Prevacid and Carafate.

If it was Reglan that was added and he got crazy... that is a typical adverse reaction. Your vet will deny that. I did a study in my megaesophagus board and 75% of ALL DOGS have some form of adverse reaction like that. My dog was like he was on LSD. Horses jump right through the barn doors on it. There was a class action suit for humans because of it.

The half life is 5 whole days and sometimes the side effects are irreversible.

The FIRST mistake with IBD was to put him on grain free and not for IBD. The proper food for this dog is fractionalized grain/carbs and very low MILD proteins and very low fat. Hills ID low residue. PRESCRIPTION The fat is causing acid burning into his body.

As you found out. But all the "experts" on the internet who not only don't know what they're talking about but never LIVED with an extensive case like this....love to TRASH the first preferred choice for IBD Hills ID food. A miracle food..

if this vet food was not for IBD then your vet was wrong.

Read ANYTHING by Dr Robert Washabau, a nationally recognized expert. Or anything from say, Cornell etc.

Regardless, as much extensive experience as I have in this disease it's just too much for me to think about and type out and I doubt at this point it would be helpful. Some days I just cannot get depressed over dogs and ruin my day reliving my own dog's awful experience with gastric ulcer, IBD and MEGAESOPHAGUS. NO offense, really. After some time, this condition can turn to stomach cancer.

Tell your husband I said how cowardly. To dump the dog instead of properly seeing him out peacefully. I also will pray tonight that he gets the biggest nastiest gastric ulcer possible. Then you can put duck tape on his mouth so he can't speak about pain or symptoms and let doctors GUESS what's wrong. I have no patience with abusers.



ETA there is a teeny tiny remote chance that if you get OFF the Reglan (an assumption) and address the ULCER correctly, he MIGHT reverse.

He is special needs and survived pretty long now that I reread since JANUARY. But then again, probably not. I just usually do NOT give up when I think the owners were non compliant. And my guess is with your "busy" life you did not give the carafate properly , as is the case with most people. No offense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by runswithscissors View Post
And the fight is to be expected because the female was REACTING to his unstable energy in the absence of a LEADER in the house helping/controlling him.

LONG before Cesar Milan was on TV, a friend from my megaesophagus board met with him on a consultation and he very nicely told her until she gets the pack in order and treats her sick dog a certain way, the others would be aggressive.

And that's exactly what happened. She made a conscious choice to live in an unstable pack because she refused to accept that treating her sick dog any other way was an option.

They DID remain friends and she later said he was 100% right.

Do NOT blame the female, she's the only one that knows what needs to be done. NOW, step up and get the peace back into the house and show HER calm assertive leadership, that she is NOT responsible to make it happen, that you are there to do that and she can trust you.
He was neven given reglan at all, and was on carafete earlier this spring/summer which i give him religiously with proper attention. I had time as my toddler was going to a center 3x a week, so time to adminster meds along feeding was never an issue. Prevacid was another antibotic he was on, and there's couple of other meds i have to look up from my records later on tonight.

Yes, he got his dx from endo scope after doing x ray trials and parasite testing.

actually, i never blamed my female dog as i knew she was anxious with the inbalance of leadership in our household. it just added another level of stress for us all, is what i wanted to indicate and told my husband who never grew up with dogs like i did. He's ok with her, but was just freaked at that time over the aggression as we never had problems like that ever from her.

so i'd like some infomation from you on the proper diet if possible? i'll read up on the guy you're recommending later on.

Thanks for the advice as i'm pretty adamenent on NOT surrending him even though there is a very good boxer rescue organization that could take him in. i just feel, as a dog owner i'm just passing on my dog's problems onto another person, which isn't a very responsible thing to do. it's either sticking with him to the end or putting him to sleep humanly when i feel im out of options to keep him from discomfort.
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Old 10-20-2013, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Detroit Michigan
429 posts, read 782,839 times
Reputation: 534
Unless the IBD was diagnoised thur biopsy u cant be 100% certian it is IBD. IBD with animals is Inflammatory bowel disease and can only be diagnosed with biopsy. There is also irritable bowl syndrom which is often confused with true IBD (inflammatory disease). and i believe tha the irritable bowl syndrom does not need biopsy to diagnois. Which was your dog diagnoised with IBD (inflamatory disease) or irriatble bowel syndrom?


I went thru something with my cat similar. the vet susoected it was IBD but after nothing was impproving i was sent for untra sound. which didnt show why things were ging on with my cat. I was suppose take her for another ultra sound after 2weeks. i opted to have exploritory surgery done instead(it would have been the next step after 2nd ultra sound if we couldnt determine cause of illness. SHe had her surgery done and samples were sent out for testing and she was diagnosied with emerging small cell lymphoma. Thru talking to many many other pet parents online and reading numerous articles there are alot of cases where pets are being diagnoised with IBD and they are not biopsed to get a true diagnois. and it turns out IBD was a incorrect guess for a diagnois and the pet actually had cancer the whole time and had the pet been properly diagnoised it would have stood a betterchence had proper treatment been started sooner.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:16 PM
 
857 posts, read 1,768,718 times
Reputation: 1115
I don't say this lightly because I have just lost a very much loved dog.
BUT your dog is old and needs to be put to sleep.

The dog needs it and you and you husband and children need it.
I hope you are able to keep the other dog. I am sure it is very stressed out form your sick dog.

You will be doing the right thing.
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Old 10-20-2013, 09:49 PM
 
1,286 posts, read 2,961,380 times
Reputation: 2277
Quote:
Originally Posted by abbara View Post
I don't say this lightly because I have just lost a very much loved dog.
BUT your dog is old and needs to be put to sleep.

The dog needs it and you and you husband and children need it.
I hope you are able to keep the other dog. I am sure it is very stressed out form your sick dog.

You will be doing the right thing.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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