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Old 11-23-2007, 08:13 AM
 
768 posts, read 1,925,122 times
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Am I in the wrong forum? I didn't realize that "Debate" is the purpose of our discussions. Religion and Philosophy forum, sure, but I didn't realize the Pet forum is for debate. What did I miss?

Nicolepsy, I find your suggestion of a pit bull forum ridiculous. The breed is a topic you know nothing about, but I'd bet you would be wanting to contribute to that forum too just like you (who are childless) do on the Parenting forum, telling people how to raise their children. From my perspective, it looks like you just want to argue.

 
Old 11-23-2007, 08:20 AM
 
Location: southern california
55,471 posts, read 74,358,652 times
Reputation: 47872
i was jus thinkin what a nice big thread this created, cops shot a mean dog.
but when a mean person shoots a cop, hardly anything.
the sky is cryin
(sing it)
 
Old 11-23-2007, 09:24 AM
 
Location: huh?
3,099 posts, read 2,021,750 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnyDayNow View Post
Am I in the wrong forum? I didn't realize that "Debate" is the purpose of our discussions. Religion and Philosophy forum, sure, but I didn't realize the Pet forum is for debate. What did I miss?

Nicolepsy, I find your suggestion of a pit bull forum ridiculous. The breed is a topic you know nothing about, but I'd bet you would be wanting to contribute to that forum too just like you (who are childless) do on the Parenting forum, telling people how to raise their children. From my perspective, it looks like you just want to argue.
wow! i have seen a ton of debating on every forum (not just religion/philosophy!) (discussion often turns to debate. totally natural)
double wow! how do you KNOW i am childless? what makes you think that?
also, i dont not tell people how to raise their children. i only offer suggestions whenever there is a plea for help/advice just like all the other posters do. i am in no way any different than every other poster.
i would love it if there were a pit bull sub forum because it seems that pit bull posts normally involve things like ear cropping and breeding and bull baiting (what ever that is!) and tons of bias and denial and waaay too many pictures.
i really dont think that most pet owners deal with things like ear cropping and such. ear cropping may be a normal issue to talk about amongst pit bull owners but for the average dog owner it seems foreign and odd and just starts controversy. this is why i think there should be a separate forum so that pitbull owners can just totally surround themselves with like minded people. i normally dont believe in segregation but.........
i think i have learned quite a bit about pit bulls and the basic psychology of their owners in the past couple of weeks and if anything i walk away with an even worse opinion now.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 09:28 AM
 
Location: huh?
3,099 posts, read 2,021,750 times
Reputation: 499
though i found the "proof" of what i think is laughing about tragedy, i have decided not to add fuel to the fire. anyone can find it themselves if they look hard enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolepsy View Post
o.k. i will try to show you some posts/ pix that seem to poke fun at tragedy as soon as i can. i will post it as an addition to this thread though and not try to turn it into a new one because frankly i am tired of this pro-pit bull anti-pit bull thing. i think it would be great if there could be a separate pit bull forum! i have noticed that whenver the pit bull controversy gets too heated here that some on this forum (excuse me for saying "some") start hijacking the thread with pictures and jokes. also, since this is a forum and not a one on one conversation i thought it perfectly reasonable and allowable to use terms such as "some on this forum". i feel it much more enlightening if we could all contribute instead of just two or three people debating. we all have different styles of debate and i didnt see the point of starting a new thread titled "riveree doesnt agree with nicolepsy regarding......". i would think that starting a new post with such a title would seem like a personal attack. i am not searching the web for news stories in order to start these debates/discussions. im only responding (albeit sarcastically which i have seen others do also btw) to someone's elses posting.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,541 posts, read 16,347,856 times
Reputation: 5077
I think people are oblivious to the fact that all breeds of dogs bite, every sing one of them.
The person who is uneducated about the pitbull type will tell you they bite more often, their bites are more vicious, they snap, yada yada yada. Its all wrong. But how can you convince a person that believes this ? The media put its out ALL The time. This is the same media, that if I were to believe it, black and mexican people are gangbangers and white people are either rich or rednecks, all Irish people are drungs yada yada.. But I know different. I dont buy into sensationalism. The media puts out WHATEVER it knows will stir people on the TV. A dog bite shouldnt even be in the news, especially when done unfairly. A lab bites, not in the news, a pitbull bites, its a 75% chance its in the news.
But what about the real real stuff that needs to be covered, immigration ? The news avoids that for some reason. What about the child abuse, sex offenders, whatever ? That should have been covered over an animal bite IMO.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 11:04 AM
 
Location: huh?
3,099 posts, read 2,021,750 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
I think people are oblivious to the fact that all breeds of dogs bite, every sing one of them.
The person who is uneducated about the pitbull type will tell you they bite more often, their bites are more vicious, they snap, yada yada yada. Its all wrong. But how can you convince a person that believes this ? The media put its out ALL The time. This is the same media, that if I were to believe it, black and mexican people are gangbangers and white people are either rich or rednecks, all Irish people are drungs yada yada.. But I know different. I dont buy into sensationalism. The media puts out WHATEVER it knows will stir people on the TV. A dog bite shouldnt even be in the news, especially when done unfairly. A lab bites, not in the news, a pitbull bites, its a 75% chance its in the news.
But what about the real real stuff that needs to be covered, immigration ? The news avoids that for some reason. What about the child abuse, sex offenders, whatever ? That should have been covered over an animal bite IMO.
i see your point of course but i also see plenty of news regarding child abuse, sex offenders and immigration also. it's probably not fair to blame people who pay attention to the news. why not just blame the media instead? why blame us who watch the news or reply to posts? i dont post these dog attack stories and if i reply am i not allowed to because i just might believe what is posted? the pit bull owners on this forum are allowed to respond to these stories. whenever a pit bull attack story is posted here if you will notice, the pit bull owners on this forum immediately say "im sure it wasnt a pit bull" "they surely misidentified the breed" "something sounds fishy" "it is the owners fault not the dog". i have also noticed that it is never ever the dogs fault (so say the pit bull owners on this forum). if a mother loses her child to a pit bull attack (this was a news story posted on this forum a while back and not by me either!) there is always more sympathy from the pit bull owners for the pit bull than the child or the mother. i think it is wrong to be so rigid in your thinking. it seems that the pit bull owners are soooo focused on defending their chosen breed that they are now blind to certain things like the possibility that alot of pit bulls may indeed be dangerous. look, not all pit bulls are dangerous (though i dont know) but to come to the defense of alllllll pit bulls and say "it's not the breed, it's the owner) is not a healthy way to reason or a valid argument. like i said, i dont post these stories. i post questions like "why would you want to own a pitbull?" because i am curious as to why when according to stats (that i believe, but are apparently untrue according to pit bull owners) it is a very very very big risk. i dont ask this question because i want to argue. believe me I had NO IDEA that pit bull owners were (in general) so rigid. i never post things like "all pit bulls should be destroyed!". if this post sounds like i am yelling i am not. i am doing my best to state my view in a civil manner. i only want for pit bull owners to open their minds a bit more so they can understand why others may be afraid or not as fond of the breed. i definitely see that this is a no win situation which is why i think there should be a sub-forum for pit bulls. i have always been the type of person to question everything, be open to the possibility of anything and speak up (i try my best to be polite) instead of sit by and watch. there are many people here who agree with things ive said in the past but dont feel the need to participate. i dont blame them of course.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,541 posts, read 16,347,856 times
Reputation: 5077
Id like to point out that pitbull owners arent blind to what goes on. Within the media you will hear about "family" pitbulls that attack. And when I look at that story and see the yard, green grass, big chain, doghouse with no grass around it that tells me that its not a family dog, but a tormented dog thats tied up 99% of the time. In many cases (and their is a website documenting it), X Breeds and dogs that are not pitbulls are called pitbulls. Its as frustrating as crap. They dont cover a lap biteing somebody, but have a high probability of showing a pitbull biteing.

I am blaming the people that watch the news, lap up the sensationalism and believe it. I never trust media anymore and heres a reason why. I went to Denmark to see a football game and when I got home the Irish media did a full page on the riots in Denmark that my club caused. It too the Danish FA and Police stating that there where no fights and we where peacefull friendly people who had a great time in Denmark and theyd have us back any time for the paper to put a 2 line retraction months later. The media LOVES to make stuff up.

As you can see, we spend 90% of our time defending the breed because of what I said above. People who are owners of "normal" dogs like to jump on our backs also, and say it serves there right theyre facing BSL. What people have to realise is that YOUR DOG IS NEXT!. If they ban pitbulls, German Shepheards will be next, then Irish WofeHounds then the next and the next and the next untill all dogs are banned. People need to realise this. The media is fueling this like nobodys business. They are like locusts trying to destroy our breeds reputation.

The thing about my breed is that some people do get them to look tough, be mean whatever. They are a fashion accesory for some people. It makes me sick. But if my city bans the "pitbull" like they are trying. Guess what. Theyll get a lab, do the same thing to make it as mean as they possibly can, then that dog will be next on the chopping board.

Can you feel my frustration though ? We all feel this.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 12:33 PM
 
Location: huh?
3,099 posts, read 2,021,750 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
Id like to point out that pitbull owners arent blind to what goes on. Within the media you will hear about "family" pitbulls that attack. And when I look at that story and see the yard, green grass, big chain, doghouse with no grass around it that tells me that its not a family dog, but a tormented dog thats tied up 99% of the time. In many cases (and their is a website documenting it), X Breeds and dogs that are not pitbulls are called pitbulls. Its as frustrating as crap. They dont cover a lap biteing somebody, but have a high probability of showing a pitbull biteing.

I am blaming the people that watch the news, lap up the sensationalism and believe it. I never trust media anymore and heres a reason why. I went to Denmark to see a football game and when I got home the Irish media did a full page on the riots in Denmark that my club caused. It too the Danish FA and Police stating that there where no fights and we where peacefull friendly people who had a great time in Denmark and theyd have us back any time for the paper to put a 2 line retraction months later. The media LOVES to make stuff up.

As you can see, we spend 90% of our time defending the breed because of what I said above. People who are owners of "normal" dogs like to jump on our backs also, and say it serves there right theyre facing BSL. What people have to realise is that YOUR DOG IS NEXT!. If they ban pitbulls, German Shepheards will be next, then Irish WofeHounds then the next and the next and the next untill all dogs are banned. People need to realise this. The media is fueling this like nobodys business. They are like locusts trying to destroy our breeds reputation.

The thing about my breed is that some people do get them to look tough, be mean whatever. They are a fashion accesory for some people. It makes me sick. But if my city bans the "pitbull" like they are trying. Guess what. Theyll get a lab, do the same thing to make it as mean as they possibly can, then that dog will be next on the chopping board.

Can you feel my frustration though ? We all feel this.
thanks for your polite reply. of course i feel your frustration. i dont think ive actually jumped on anyone's back though (though i know that youre probably not referring to me personally). i have only asked questions about why this and why that and then am verbally attacked by some of the pit bull owners on this forum so can you feel my frustration also? i am tired of the "what's next? labs? then all dogs?" argument. i truly dont ever see this happening to the extent that eventually ALL dogs will be banned. are you saying the media hates all dogs and it's true mission is to ban all dogs in the end? i understand your fear of losing your dog to a ban of course. it would be heartbreaking and unfair of course. i would venture to say that if you took a poll of a 100 people that approx. 90 would say that pit bulls are more likely than other breeds to attack other dogs or people. whether this is true, i do not know but you cant blame people for believing what they hear and see and read and since majority usually rules i do believe that within several years the pit bull will be banned. im not saying it is right or wrong. i simply wanted to know a few weeks ago "why?" "why with all the stories of pit bull aggression would someone want to own one? why take the risk?" i, would never take the risk or want to know that i may be inflicting fear on my neighborhood causing many to avoid me (by risk i mean not just harm to your own family but also to others and also in the legal area) and wanted to know why others would. what was their reasoning? if there were a media blitz about chihuahuas being aggressive and killing other people and other dogs i certainly would not go out and get a chihuahua. you may ask "well, if the media were to start flooding the news with horrible chihuahua stories then would you defend the chihuahua that you currently own?" and of course i would a bit but not so far as to discount as lies every story about viscious chihuahuas. i would not then call all people who are afraid of chihuahuas ignorant or misinformed or anything like that. but the real point is that i HIGHLY doubt that chihuahuas or labs or some of the other breeds that you say will be next will EVER get as much bad press at pitbulls. so thankfully i dont have to worry about a chihuahua ban. i do understand your fear of losing your dog.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,541 posts, read 16,347,856 times
Reputation: 5077
I beleive it was St Bernards that where targets before. They where the golden child of the media in regardst to bad publicity, now its pitbulls, and then it will be the next breed. I think it is very naive to think that Labs will never be the target of one.

Youre right, I wasnt singling you out, I am just generalising.

[quote]i would venture to say that if you took a poll of a 100 people that approx. 90 would say that pit bulls are more likely than other breeds to attack other dogs or people.[/b] I want to quote a website on this, "Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups". You can poll and poll and poll but that dosent mean that its an informed poll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by petlovers.com

This is the list of verified breeds we found in the United States
affected by bans or restricted in some way. If you have verifiable
information on any other breeds affected, please let us know.


Leisa & Judy



Dogs currently affected by BSL in the United States

This list is specifically named in ordinances

American Pit Bull Terrier
American Staffordshire Terrier
Staffordshire Bull Terrier
Bull Terrier (Monticello, Centerville, Alburnett & Hiawatha Iowa)
(Grandview MO) (N Little Rock, AR) (KY & WA)
Akita (Ulyssas, KS)
Alaskan Malamutes (Fairfield, IA)
American Bull Dog (North Little Rock, AR) (Aurora CO.)(Akron OH)
Belgian Malanois (Fairfield, IA)
Boerboels (Fairfield, IA)
Cane Corso (Aurora CO)
Chow Chow (Travelers Rest, SC), (Newport, RI) (Lynnville, TN)
Doberman Pincher (Fairfield, IA) (Sisston, SD), (Westfield, IL),
(Travelers Rest, SC) (Lynnville, TN) (Buffalo Center, IA)
Dogo Argentino (Aurora CO)
English Mastiffs, (Yale, IA)
Fila Brasileiro (also known as the Fila, Brazilian Mastiff) (Aurora
CO)
German Shepard (Fairfield, IA) (Lynnville, TN)
Great Danes (Fairfield, IA)
Irish Wolf Hounds (Fairfield, IA)
Mastiffs (Fairfield, IA)
Malamutes (Fairfield, IA)
Presa Mallorquin (also known as the Ca De Bou) (Aurora, CO)
Presa Canario (Lanett, AL) (Aurora CO)
Rottweiler (North Little Rock AR) (Buffalo Grove, ILL) (Fairfield,
Conrad, Lake Mills & Lockridge IA) (Walkerton, IN) (Inman, KS) (Carl
Junction & Salisbury MO) (Binghamton, NY) (Velva, ND)(Pawtuckett, RI)
(Travelers Rest, SC)(Lynnville, TN)(Smithville, UT)(Neah Bay, WA)
(Buffalo Center, IA)
Scottish Deerhounds (Fairfield, IA)
Shar Pei's (Smithfield, UT)
Siberian Huskies (Fairfield, IA)
Tosa Inu (Aurora CO)


NOTE These are breeds that are typically over 100 lbs according to
UKC & AKC Standards. If your dog is over 100lbs in Fairfield, Iowa it
is considered a restricted breed.



1. Akbash

2. Anatolian Shepherd

3. Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog

4. Borzoi

5. Bull Masiff

6. Dogue De Bordeauxs

7. Estrela Mountain Dog

8. Great Pyrenees

9. Italian Mastiff

10. Komondor

11. Kangal Dog

12. Kuvaz

13. Leonberger

14. Neopolitian Mastiff

15. New Foundland

16. Otterhound

17. St. Bernard

18. Spanish Mastiff
If that above quote dosent scare you into thinking a beloved lab could be next I dunno what will. I have always loved the Greaty Pyrenese and Irish Wolfhounds that ive come across. With groups like PETA encouraging BSL, belive me, the labs time will eventuall come if they get who they are after now.

At this stage I highly doubt ill see a chihuahua ban also. But remember, the press dosent need facts to print or report a story. So you just never know what will come up.

There is some degree of "risk" in owning any dog. No matter what the breed. They are animals, you never know 100% what they will do. Other breeds bite, and statistics show, more often than allot of the dogs being faced with BSL now. Id like to point out that I put my Lab / Retriever mix down at christmas because it tried to bite two children.
 
Old 11-23-2007, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Jax
8,204 posts, read 32,153,448 times
Reputation: 3392
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post

At this stage I highly doubt ill see a chihuahua ban also.
I don't know.......remember years back when the media was all over the "turtles carry salmonella"? How many turtles lost their homes due to the "scare"?

It's a stretch, but who knows? Maybe we'll find Chihuahuas carry a particular type of dangerous bacteria in their mouths and biting Chihuahuas will become public enemy #1.

We're all on this forum because we love dogs and I'd like to think the majority of us love all dogs even if it's not a breed we ourselves would want to have in our homes.

I can't imagine wishing ill on someone else's dog or aggressively questioning why in the world my neighbor would want a Pomeranian??? Does he know how fluffy they are???

Getting back to the original post, have we even confirmed what type of dog this was yet?? Have any more details come to light?
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