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Old 12-14-2009, 07:41 PM
 
82 posts, read 203,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK802 View Post
Cooking your dog's food destroys all vital nutrients and should never be done. Raw, meaty bones. Feed that and you won't see a single allergy or skin issue.
We cook our own food, how are we retaining any of the nutrients? Years ago at home when I was a child..Looong Looong ago..our dogs lived healthy lives being feed what we ate..real cooked food. One of them was close to 18 years old. You can add enzymes, a multivitamin and bone meal if you wish.
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Old 12-14-2009, 09:06 PM
 
Location: San Diego
5,058 posts, read 7,721,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lana C View Post
We cook our own food, how are we retaining any of the nutrients? Years ago at home when I was a child..Looong Looong ago..our dogs lived healthy lives being feed what we ate..real cooked food. One of them was close to 18 years old. You can add enzymes, a multivitamin and bone meal if you wish.
One does not need to heat a dog's food. As I stated, raw, meaty bones are the way to go. No vegetables, no fruits, no grains. Dogs are obligate carnivores and people need to start treating them as such. Here are some great resources:

Myths About Raw: Have dogs adapted to cooked diets?

Jane Anderson's Raw Learning Site
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Old 12-15-2009, 05:08 AM
 
3,384 posts, read 7,467,138 times
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This is a decent article on the topic.
Food Allergies & Food Intolerance in Dogs
Merck Veterinary Manual

I would agree the raw diet is an excellent food choice but it does not cure everything - I was feeding this diet between 10 and 2 years ago [though I did add small amounts of veggie mush, primarily green beans and sweet potatoes] and still wound up with one dog allergic to chicken and another dog developing hip dysplasia, both on the diet, the younger dog from puppy to age 5.

I did an elimination test with my own dog to figure out that chicken was the culprit and gave him several years of itch free life.

To do the elmination diet I went ahead and fed Z/D [NOT a good long term food but it gave us some relief and room to test!] and introduced pure forms of the proteins from the most common suspect list. He could not tolerate chicken, lamb, of flax [flax not on list but I always noticed more problems when he was fed a food with flax] ............ He *could* however tolerate chicken fat but that does make sense.

You can also do an elminiation test by feading foods with one meat and one grain or other carbohydrate ingredient. It will just take longer to go that route.
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Old 12-15-2009, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Missouri
1,554 posts, read 2,965,380 times
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I have been wanting to feed raw.... but I don't know where to begin. How much and afraid that it will be expensive to feed raw? I read Jane Anderson's Raw Learning Site but need a push. What is the first step I should do? and how?
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Old 12-16-2009, 12:31 AM
 
Location: San Diego
5,058 posts, read 7,721,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kareybear View Post
I have been wanting to feed raw.... but I don't know where to begin. How much and afraid that it will be expensive to feed raw? I read Jane Anderson's Raw Learning Site but need a push. What is the first step I should do? and how?
The sites I posted above are excellent starting points. This site might answer questions you may have as well:

BARF for Beginners - Most Frequently Asked Questions

And here is a site with recipes:

Raw Feeding Recipes (http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipe/List - broken link)

Feeding raw is actually a lot cheaper than the high-quality kibble. Here is a link to a raw feeding spreadsheet. This is one of the best I have ever seen. Just plug in your dog's weight and it will do the rest for you.

PERSONAL RAW FEEDING GUIDE (New and Improved) - Raw Food Diet Forum
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Old 12-16-2009, 04:43 AM
 
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I bought a brand sold at petsmart,I forget the name it might have been science diet they make different foods I chose the one for SENSITIVE SKIN its about 32.00 for the big bag but my dogs scratching stopped
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:45 PM
 
166 posts, read 301,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAK802 View Post
Cooking your dog's food destroys all vital nutrients and should never be done.

One does not need to heat a dog's food. As I stated, raw, meaty bones are the way to go. No vegetables, no fruits, no grains. Dogs are obligate carnivores and people need to start treating them as such.

MAK, sounds like you have a very, very strong opinion about this. I have also heard the same type of statements from some others who feed their dogs raw food.

If what you say is true, that "cooking your dogs food destroys all vital nutrients", wouldn't all dogs who are fed a diet of commercial dog food (which is made of cooked ingredients, not raw) die very early deaths due to malnutrition? If there were no nutrients in cooked food, they wouldn't last a month. In fact, I also would have died a long time ago since I cook my own food. Considering that probably the majority of people feed either cooked or a commercial diet, and we have seen testimonials from so many whos dogs have lived long and healthy lives on commercial food (mine included), doesn't that suggest that cooked food does contain the necessary nutrients to support healthy lives for dogs?

I am not saying one is better than another - like many things in life, there isn't a right or wrong answer to the cooked or raw debate. I like to keep an open mind about these things and I avoid making sweeping statements because I realize that if I start thinking I know everything about a subject, then I will never be able to learn anything new. It is important to realize that there are many factors one must consider when deciding what one will feed their dog. Personally, I would not feed raw, and I have my reasons, but that doesn't mean I would tell you that you are wrong for feeding your dog raw. What you do is your choice based on your particular situation, just like what others do is their choice based on their particular situation. What is important is for us to share our experiences with one another so we can learn from each other, and those who are trying to decide which method they will choose can have information from all sides of the discussion so they can make their own informed choice.
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Old 12-18-2009, 01:21 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
402 posts, read 658,993 times
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Just to add a few things...for those interested in learning about raw, check out the Rawfeeding Yahoo group:

rawfeeding : Raw Feeding for dogs and cats!

The folks there will walk you through how to start and answer any questions about raw. I found it very helpful. And yeah, some people feel VERY strongly about it, LOL.

For the dogs that are allergic to chicken - do you know if it was enhanced chicken? A lot of grocery store chicken has additives (sodium, etc.) which some dogs can't handle. It's usually in the very fine print on the package, so easy to miss.
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Old 12-18-2009, 09:07 AM
 
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My allergic dog was eating chicken frames [ribs with filets stripped off] straight from the chicken processing plant or unprocessed leg quarters. I doubt there was anything added to it. We were buying them in 40 lb boxes filled with ice. I am very aware of additives because I watch my own frozen chicken breasts which are often packed full of sodium. Did not even bother buying a frozen turkeny this year because of the high levels.

You can't have an allergy to sodium; if you do you would be dead as sodium is the main extracellular electrolyte and postassium is the main intracellular electrolyte. Allergies to salts of sodium may be possible.

MAK802 - you are advocating raw, with no fruits or veggies required very vigorously but on another thread you say you feed Orijen? That food is baked and has fruits and vegetbles in it so I am confused.

I did feed a very pure raw diet, following the guidance in "give your dog a bone" and several other raw feeders for 8 years, and left due to an allergic dog with bloody mucousy stools from it and constant ear infections**, another who still managed to develop hip dysplasia on the diet plus the requirements for freezer space for larger dogs, and decided that commercially available chicken [which is the primary affordable food] was a very limited diet and decided I would rather do some rotation feeding with different protein sources which is probably also a more natural diet. It used to be that lamb was the choice for allergic dogs because it was a novel protein rarely used in dog foods. That changed and they started adding it to a lot of foods, reducing its effectiveness.

I am switching off of EVO though to drop the protein and phosphorus contents a little.

**and that dog did fine on Purina ONE senstive systems but I did not want to feed it to the other dogs because if the menadione.

___________________________

Listen if I sound a bit harsh it is because, for many, BARF becomes a "religion" with the most zealous supporters often having zero or next to zero experience feeding the diet. In this religion, anyone feeding dog food needs to be "converted". It is a choice, just like feeding prepared dog food is a choice. Many of the most ardent barfers I know would be well advised to be buying natural produce and meats for their own consumption instead of worrying about their dogs so much, as their dogs are still only going to live 14-15 years but they should have 80-90 which is much more time to accumulate toxins in their bodies.

Dogs have survived as "dogs" about 10,000 years with people pretty much eating our garbage and scraps. Believe it or not< I know a few allergic dogs who THRIVE on BENEFUL after failing on other more expensive higher quality foods.! I believe the ONE that I fed my dog had corn in it. He did not have an issue with corn. With an allergic dog you do what it takes......to stop the insane itching and ear infections.........

Last edited by grannynancy; 12-18-2009 at 09:36 AM..
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:21 AM
 
Location: San Diego
5,058 posts, read 7,721,385 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
MAK802 - you are advocating raw, with no fruits or veggies required very vigorously but on another thread you say you feed Orijen? That food is baked and has fruits and vegetbles in it so I am confused.
He gets Orijen when he's at the pet sitter's house, which is a couple of times per year. Somehow I doubt she'd be willing to do raw, given that she has around 7 dogs at her house each time he's dropped off. And, some people are just not into it so to make her life easier, we give him one of the better kibbles out there for that time period.
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