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Both parties sound like they were in the wrong. Your dogs were loose, no matter how it happened, someone else's animal was injured, even though it was loose as well.
If it were me.. I would offer 50% of the vet bill because my dog injured someone else's dog. I personally would feel horrible and responsible. If your dogs were not loose, your dogs would not have injured the other dog. So you are responsible whether we want to blame the other dog or not.
But let it go to court if you feel so strongly about it, see how it shakes out.
legally, I don't know where you stand...
MORRALLY, your fence wasn't secure enough to contain your large powerful dog, it got out and from the story YOU posted attacked a small dog in its own yard...
doesn't matter realy if the yard was fenced or not, or if the dog was on a leash, chain or loose...in the story given the little dog WAS on its own property that YOUR dog entered. doesn't even matter whos dog bit first, your dog was loose and if the story given is belived the little dog was in its own yard.
what would you do it your dogs had injured someones dog who was out in a yard surrounded by an invisible/underground fence? would you accept responsibility for your dogs entering someones "fenced" yard(inviable or not that person is "containing" their dogs) and hurting their dog?
personally id talk with them, tell them you understand your dogs got loose, and you will work to ensure your fence is PROPERLY secure, but that their dog was also not properly secure and that youd be willing to ASSIST with the vet bill in a *insert percentage amount* but will need to talk to the vet directly for a copy of the invoice for treatment for your own records
legally, I don't know where you stand...
MORRALLY, your fence wasn't secure enough to contain your large powerful dog, it got out and from the story YOU posted attacked a small dog in its own yard...
doesn't matter realy if the yard was fenced or not, or if the dog was on a leash, chain or loose...in the story given the little dog WAS on its own property that YOUR dog entered. doesn't even matter whos dog bit first, your dog was loose and if the story given is belived the little dog was in its own yard.
what would you do it your dogs had injured someones dog who was out in a yard surrounded by an invisible/underground fence? would you accept responsibility for your dogs entering someones "fenced" yard(inviable or not that person is "containing" their dogs) and hurting their dog?
personally id talk with them, tell them you understand your dogs got loose, and you will work to ensure your fence is PROPERLY secure, but that their dog was also not properly secure and that youd be willing to ASSIST with the vet bill in a *insert percentage amount* but will need to talk to the vet directly for a copy of the invoice for treatment for your own records
All of this.
You really should just offer to pay it. If you see the chi out in the future, call animal control. It doesn't really matter if the other owner lets his dog out or whatever. If your dog entered THAT dog's yard, your dog IS the aggressor. The chi could have been the "aggressor" but has the right to defend it's turf. Now, if the chi had entered YOUR yard and your dog bit him? Tough cookies, your dog has the right to defend himself/his yard etc
You are responsible for managing your dog and keeping your dog under your control. A weakened fence isn't an excuse for the dog getting out. If you knew the fence had been weakened by the weahter, the dog shouldn't have been unattended in the yard OR you should have had a backup system in place to contain your dog (ie: chain spot, tether, pulley system etc)
Let me start by saying we own two huskies both neutered, both vaccinated, and we try to keep them in a secure environment as they are known runners. We've never known them to be aggressive and they have never bit anyone, although they love to hunt our gophers and chase stray cats who peruse through our backyard.
Our rowdy husky broke the fence on saturday and got loose while we were grocery shopping. We came home and a neighbor told us or dogs were out. As we drove looking for them, (fearing only they might have been hurt by the busy highway that's close by) we had a person come screaming at us that our dog "attacked" his chihuahua (who was on a leash and in their yard no less)and was bleeding profusing and they they were taking her to an emergency animal hospital and that we would have to pay the vet bills. We assured him that after we had a chance to calm down(as we were still trying to catch our dogs), we could see about helping him out. Well he bugged and bugged all day telling us we had to pay him right then and there! When we finally realized where he lived, we realized that we've had multiple issues with their little chihuahua always unleashed in the streets, in our yard, and being snappy at my kids when we first moved in and used to takes walks in that direction, after a few run ins with their dog, we stopped walking in that area. We didn't feel comfortable just handing him 1500$ and "taking his word for it" especially when we hadnt gathered all the facts yet! He harassed us three times demanding payment and even threatened us! The next day we talked to three neighbors who told us that the dog was not leashed and that theyve also had issues with that chihuahua being aggressive. The owner of the injured dog told us that he witnessed the whole thing and it was in fact our dog who was the aggressor, which was shocking because even though he can be pretty curious and excited he's never been aggressive with another dog. When animal control followed up the following Monday, the officer confirmed that the little chihuahua was not in fact leashed, and that the only person who saw what happened was their young daughter(unsure of age), not the owner and that it was the officer's impression, it was likely that the chihuahua has little dog syndrome and could possibly had made the first lunge. She said the chihuahua was in their yard and informed us that since neither dog was leashed they pretty much canceled each other out. She also informed us that they had to take our husky and hold him until our backyard was secure, and because he allegedly killed a cat in the cat's own yard.
a few days later, the owner of the chihuahua came to bring me the bill. I told her why we did not feel responsible and she said they'd be taking me to court. do they have a legitimate case?
I would say that you owe. The Animal Control officer even stated that their dog was in its own yard. Your dogs were not in your yard, not secured. You say, "they were secured" but they were not. Your dogs got out, attacked another dog that was in its own yard, (leashed or not...my dogs are not leashed when they are in the yard...of course, I'm in the yard WITH them when they are out), and the little dog had to go to the vet. It doesn't matter if the little dog "was the aggressor", the little dog was IN HIS OWN YARD, of COURSE he's going to be aggressive when two large dogs come in to HIS yard.
Whether or not you've had issues in the past, this time your dogs did the damage because your dogs were not properly secured, and that little dog was in its own yard. Just pay.
Maybe the little dog wasn't in his own yard when attacked...maybe he just ran to his own yard ....It's a tuff call..maybe one for the judge.
Not sure what I'd do...probably pay for half...AFTER I've seen the vet bill.
The burden of proof is on the plaintiff, in the case the owner of the Chihuahua. If both dogs were loose, it was a case of mutual doggie combat. The fact that the Chihuahua was allegedly in his yard doesn't make a difference; he was loose as well, thus the Chihuahua's owner was also negligent. So it's both parties' fault. If you do feel like you should pay 1/2 the bill, be sure you get a statement from the owner of the Chihuahua IN WRITING saying he accepts this as full settlement from you for the dog's injuries. That way he can't win more money from you in court by saying you promised to pay the whole bill or some such nonsense. You certainly shouldn't pay the whole bill since the Chihuahua was loose, however.
Make sure You get statement in Writing from Animals control the other dog was Not leashed either. Make sure you receive a copy of the vet bill from the vet IF they refuse them Well How can you pay what you don't get a bill for? Make Sure the Vet Bill is ITEMIZED! Your paying for damage done by your dog not yearly shots etc! Then sit back & wait to see IF they sue. Keep your information just in case they do! BTW Go get Renters insurance! And a better fence!
Make Sure the Vet Bill is ITEMIZED! Your paying for damage done by your dog not yearly shots etc!
Great point. Frequently dog owners try to get other dog owners to pay for shots, microchipping, and all sorts of things not related to the actual injury.
I live in California and know that although there are state laws, most cities and counties have their own ordinances. For example, I have never heard of them impounding a dog for killing a cat, even in the cats yard. (if I read that correctly) If you can get your dog home and secured in your house or on your property, they can not take your dog for damage to another persons property (trash cans, cats, even dogs) Now if your dog bites a person that is a totally different story.
Unfortunately, I have had two situations with my leashed dog(s) killing an unleashed dog(s). In my case, I was totally following the law, my dog leashed and a small unleashed dog came barking into the street and chasing me and my dog.
That same little dog was often out and the neighbors said the dog would nip at their children on the way to the bus stop. In the eyes of the law, a few things happened, the small dog was preventing me from legal use of the public property. He started a fight and lost.
I was charged with failing to leash my dog. Even though my dog was leashed, at some point during the incident, I fell down and was dragged and did not have control of my dog.
And I am telling you all this because I had a very difficult time coming to my responsibility in the situation. I am responsible for my dog. (Matters not if I am present or not as the second situation happened while somebody else was again walking my leashed dogs) But I could not prevent the situation from happening, I could not pick up my dog, voice command, just like you could not prevent your dogs from having an interaction with the dog down the street.
If that little dog had somehow gotten into your back yard, would your dogs have injured it? (Assuming the dog would behave in the manner most little dogs behave) Say you had the little dog and they had the big dog, would they help or pay your vet bills?
Since both all dogs involved were unleashed, does it become your responsibility to pay for vet bills simply because your dog is larger and injured the aggressive small dog?
If your child was playing baseball in the street and accidentally broke a window of a car, who's going to pay for it?
I'm simply saying that people with large breed dogs, regardless of the breed, aggressive or not, should always take that extra step to make sure things don't “happen” unplanned.
In court, you will most likely win, as both dogs were in violation of the law.
Your responsible for your big dog, weather the dog is in violation of the law or not, another dog was hurt by your dog and you could not (at the time) prevent it from happening.
After reading all of this thread, I find there are many mis statements concerning the subject matter.
Some are perhaps mis-informed, or like making up rules more to their liking.
I assume this incident happened in California.
California law is just that, the law in California.
Most cities and towns within California have basic laws when it comes to animals, and with very few exceptions.
I will state what the law is in the city of Los Angeles, and again, this is pretty uniform through out the state.
I started the center for leash law enforcement a few years ago in response to so many dogs being allowed to run off leash in the public arena.
I make it my business to educate myself, and the few volunteers that are part of the center, on the laws regarding animal control.
Below is the rule,word for word, as written into the laws governed by animal control in the city of Los Angeles.
Sec.53.34. Animals at large.
(Title amended by Ord.No.162,537,Eff.8/8/87) (Section amended by Ord No. 162,748,Eff.9/24/87.)
A person who owns, or is in charge of, or controls, or who possesses a dog or other animal who permits, allows, or causes the dog or other animal to run,stray,be uncontrolled, or in any manner be in, upon,or at large upon a public street, sidewalk,park,or other public property, or in or upon the premises or private property of another person is guilty of a misdemeanor, if said dog or other animal bites, attacks,or causes injury to any human being or other animal.
Any person convicted under this section or section 53.53 shall not own, or possess, control, or be in charge of any animal of the species which caused the bite, attack, or injury, for a period of three (3) years from the date of conviction.
The department shall not issue, or renew any license or permit for said species of animal, except that upon the written request of the person so convicted.
The General Manager may authorize the issuance of a dog license pursuant to the provisions of section 55.15 (b).
Section 53.34.1. Menacing dogs.
(Added by Ord No. 168,864,Eff 7/7/93.)
No person, owning or having custody or control of any dog, whether or not restrained by a substantial chain, leash, shall permit the dog to unlawfully assault, threaten, or menace any human being or other animal upon any public street, sidewalk,park, or other public property, or in or upon the premises or private property of another.
The law is quite clear regarding the confinement of animals, and dogs in particular.
With regard to private property, and allowing one's dog(s) to run free, there are some stipulations.
The private property must be fenced in where by the animal is considered confined within the property.
If your yard is not fenced in, under no circumstances can you allow your dog(s) to run freely in the yard, regardless if you are present at the time.
They must be confined and under one's control at all times when there is no protective barrier to keep the animal confined.
This confinement up until January of 2007 usually meant the dog could be tethered to a chain, or rope, but in January of 2007, the law changed with regard to the time limit on tethering an animal.
In the case mentioned in the original posting, my observation is that even though the smaller dog was on it's own private property, it too was unleashed, with no physical barrier (fence) to keep it confined, or secure to the point where an entrance by another animal could not be possible.
This is clearly a 50/50 act of responsibility on the part of both dog owners.
Any expenses incurred should be divided equally among both parties.
Bob.
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