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We have two female German Shepherds one is dominant and the other is submissive. However, they don’t get along. They are both spayed. They came from the same breeder and parents. We got the first one when she was 10 weeks old and the other when she was 9 weeks old. The dominant one is 1 ½ years old and the submissive one is 1 year old. They will play together occasionally but most of the time the older one is showing her dominance all the time. She doesn’t allow the younger one to do anything. They don’t sit near each other or do anything together. Lately, it has been a lot worse. Nothing has change in our routines. The older one is now causing harm to the younger and it is requiring vet visits. The younger is always submissive and now acts like she is an abused dog. I can’t bear the thought of having to get rid of one so I’m reaching out for some help. Neither have ever bit any human and both are very loving dogs.
Sorry to say but in my experience when two dogs do not get along it means either rehoming one or keeping them apart by use of baby gates or what ever it takes. I have always been told to get dogs of opposite sex and that are not real similar. I had 3 dogs 2 females and 1 male and the one female would go after the other who would cower and scream in terror and then the male who was the side kick of the attacker would jump in to help his " queen". I have always worked hard to have dogs with inhibited bites so the dogs never hurt the one but she was terrified and to me that is just as bad.
The victim was a 2 yr old deaf vision limited border collie that had spent 6 months in the shelter and was such a sweet loveable dog .After not being able to fix the problem and keeping her separate from the other female for 1.5 yrs unless I was right there with them, I made the difficult decision to rehome the deaf one as keeping her separate just seemed unfair to her as she already lived in a silent world. I was lucky as my parents had just lost one of their dogs and loved her so were able to take her. We visited my parents often and at their home my other female tended to just ignore her so for years it went pretty well. Sadly she out lived my parents and I took her back in. I still had the other female but she was 14 and the old male was gone but I had Dazzle who was a young male then.This time everyone got along and the two old gals seemed to enjoy one another and the deaf one even grieved when her old attacker died. Despite being terrified of her when they were young dogs she was oddly drawn to her. When I got her she did not seem to know how to be a dog and learned much by watching her and I do think that was the root of the problem with them. The deaf one had vision issues would stare at other dogs and that would set my other female off and thus she would attack and pin her down There was nothing I could have done to prevent her from staring .
My brother had 3 english bulldogs and the 3rd one decided to take on the other two starting first with the female who was the dominant dog but she quickly put him in his place so then he started going after the submissive male even attacking him as he slept and those would be bloody fights. They had found the 3rd one at the shelter and he is a great dog so they did not want to take him back so they too tried keeping them separate but every now and then some one left a gate open for a minute and bam there would be a fight and the submissive boy would get injured. One of their sons was moving out and found a place that would take dogs so the 3rd bulldog the aggressor left with him and there is peace once more.
Is this behavior new for your two as did they get along when they were both younger? I ask because my current female Chaos loved every dog she met for her first 1.5 yrs but around age 1.5-2 yrs she started becoming selective and stopped tolerating puppies. She will pin a puppy down and make it scream once again she has a very inhibited bite so she does not hurt them but they are terrified. I am not talking young pups but the 5mo-1.5 yr group who seem to need discipline as they have reached that age where dogs are less likely to tolerate that annoying puppy behavior and expect manners from them. Chaos seems to feel it is her job to enforce that and I have noticed that of quite a few dogs once they reach that 1.5=2 yr age. The fact yours ends up injured would suggest #1 your dog never learned to inhibit her bite or# 2 your dog is not disciplining but rather is out to harm the other one either way it could become a very dangerous situation. Sadly I have known very few people who could ever fix the issue so the two get along rather they live separated. Wish I could be more encouraging , maybe someone else can?
Am assuming both are spayed and getting enough exercise, it just seems like #1 would rather be an only dog, dog #2 clearly has no life, is unhappy and insecure, thus acting abused, she cant help it, she is being abused by the older one.
If injuries and vet visits are happening often, it's time to seriously consider rehoming one - it's not fair to the submissive one to be the dominant one's punching bag (or worse), sooner or later one is going to end up very hurt or even being killed, it's a tough situation but if they continued living together, they'd have to obviouly eat separately, live in separate rooms, go out at separate times etc.
Separating 2 big dogs in the midst of a fight isn't safe for anyone, esp. you, many well-intentioned owners have gotten maimed or even killed that way.
German Shepherds are one of those breeds that known to often develop same sex aggression. It may not happen as puppies but more when the dogs are both fully mature.
That doesn't mean that every same sex pairing will hate each other, but does mean that there is a stronger chance it will happen in that breed than in some others.
Really the only way to cope with this is to make sure they are kept separated as has already been suggested or to place one dog.
Some dogs just are horrible with other dogs, especially the same sex. There will always be a natural pecking order, and it appears your two has that figured out. But that doesn't mean you have to go along with it all the time!
There are a lot of theories on how to handle this, some will say just re-home one. That will work of course. But if you don't want to do that... there are other things to try.
At one time I had 4 intact males living together in my home. If I was home, they got along just fine. If I was out of the house, and my husband was alone with them.... never failed there would be a problem of some sort. You see, when I was there- there were hard and fast rules and I always paid attention to what was going on when they were together. Hubby- well he just didn't.
My rules were pretty simple. If one dog got bossy or growly- everyone got corrections! They learned to avoid each other when someone was grumpy. I watched for staring, body language, stiff legged walking, tails held up in the air. The offending dog would get a very loud - Knock it off! And all the rest knew to vacate the area.
I also insisted they spend time together in the same room being calm and just hanging out. No one was allowed to pester me for petting because that would get the other riled up. No one was allowed to hang at my feet or get possessive of me or my space! They all had to stay "over there" on their own beds. I watched them like hawks.
Feeding time, all had to be under control before anyone got dinner. The boss dog got dinner first, then the next, then the next and so on. They were fed in the same room, but with substantial distance between them. And I watched until dinner was over and pans taken up. No one was allowed to go and try to steal from another. There had to be rules! Especially if there is a known problem.
This worked for us. But you have to be willing to set rules up and be willing to be diligent and quick with corrections and your reactions. The boss dog is allowed to be the boss dog, but not a bully!
One other thing, make sure you really know who is the problem child. Sometimes we think it's dog #1 and in fact it's dog #2 egging the other dog into things. Some dogs are really sneaky about this... and until you really figure out who and why......
unforutnatly female on female same sex aggression can be the hardest (and most dangerous) to work with.
if both females are spayed and your REALY ready to work through this id say you need to find a Private animal BEHAVIOURIST (not a dog trainer, not someone whos going to come in and yank them around or correct them, or "teach" them tricks, but instead someone who can come in, properly observe them interacting, watch body language and se if they can find a root cause that can be changed, or managed...
it could be something as simple as the way you do something like feeding routine, or not being consistent in your behavior....
but you msut be prepared t crate and rotate if you realy plan on keeping both is a real behaviourist cant help, 2 females with this kind of tension will eventually rip eachother apart...
in my experience same sex aggression is difficult to manage in general, but when its 2 males, its TYPICALLY a lot of posturing, noise and "show"
when its 2 females however...theres no "show" about it, their intent is to seriously wound or kill the "interloper"
and unfortunately female on female aggression when it flares up, tends to be worse between sisters.
I pass this name around the forum quite a bit but id personally take a look at nikki iveys "dog speak" and mabe drop her a line.
Rehoming is not the problem that many may think it is. I have been on both ends of the rehoming situation. Sometimes it is simply necessary for myriad reasons. These particular OP dogs are young and easily adaptable to new living environments. Although, even age doesn't make rehoming difficult. I have found that some dogs adapt within days, others take a few weeks, none have taken longer than 30 days. The dog that is being picked on certainly deserves safety. If she is your favorite temperament keep her, if you prefer the other one, get her a male companion or none and keep her. Now as an option, if your dog only aggresses because you are the prize and are fine alone otherwise, training can be done, but if there is aggression even when they are alone and you have to enjoy a real life and not be available to monitor and aggression train, then rehome. It will be fine if you pick great new parents.
One other thing, make sure you really know who is the problem child. Sometimes we think it's dog #1 and in fact it's dog #2 egging the other dog into things. Some dogs are really sneaky about this... and until you really figure out who and why......
I so agree with this as with my Jazz it was other dogs staring at her that would send her into a frenzy. Staring is a very aggressive thing in their world especially with the herding dogs. Some people would get upset because she would growl at their dog but when I suggested they watch the dogs and indeed it was their dog that started things by a long hard stare . They needed to pay more attention to their dog when around others and prevent it from doing that. Some people got it some did not. There are so many small visual clues that start an aggression episode and often it is not the dog that appears to be the aggressor that started it. With Jazz I enforced a 3 second sniff then go rule to dogs we did not know as longer sniffs often left to posturing and if I did not step in there would be a scuffle. She was a queen and did not tolerate posturing from dogs of lower ranking however she was not what people call an alpha dog as when we were around true alpha dogs she melted and offered very submissive posturing.She was a cattle dog X border collie and really a coward who's genetic makeup was telling her take control so when a dog's posturing came across as a challenge she reacted Life was never boring with her around but as a result I learned much about dogs that I had never known and reading body language was one and it is a good one for a dog owner to have. Fights just do not happen there will be shifts in posture that if you pick up on and react fast enough you can prevent a fight. I got to be very good at seeing Jazz about to go after Phoenix and could call her off before it became an attack but it makes it hard to relax when you have to always be on the look out when the dogs are together and as I said in a previous post I did not have to worry about her being hurt but rather her being terrified and the thought of such a sweet dog feeling that way was just as bad as the thought of her being physically harmed. If I was upstairs and the dogs were down stairs by the time I got down there and pulled Jazz and her side kick Dash off of Phoenix poor Phoenix would be screaming like a pig and shaking from fear, she was much better off rehomed with my parents. Yeah I missed her living with me but it was best for her and sometimes we have to do what is best for a dog even when it may not seem the best for us.
This isn't just about same sex dogs, this is about sibling dogs.
I have sibling dogs. Any reputable breeder, vet, and even trainer will tell you NOT to get sibling dogs. There is a reason for that, and I have learned it, first hand. Those PetCo training classes are not the classes to go to when it comes to sibling dogs. People can deny all they want, until they are blue in the face, that people won't have an issue with sibling dogs. That's simply untrue. You will have a problem, and it is up to you to learn the correct way to resolve that problem. You will also need to make adjustments.
They get fed separately. They have their own beds, in different areas of the house. They have their own toys that the other is NOT allowed to play with, and they each get their own one one one time with me. You have to give each dog personal time with you, away from the other dog. It is imperative that this is done.
I can never, no matter how much training they endure, ever leave them alone together if I'm not home. Ever. I have to monitor them when they play outside, I have to monitor them inside, I have to keep them separate by a baby gate when I leave the house. I am willing to do that, I've been willing to learn how to read their body language, I've paid a lot of money for training, (mainly it was training me), and I've accepted that it will always be this way.
You need to decide if you are willing to accept that you will have to adjust life accordingly for both dogs. You should also learn safe ways to break up a dog fight, if it ever comes to that, BEFORE it happens. You need to learn to read the signs that one is about to happen. You need to be strong and assertive and catch that moment, right at that moment, and order them to concentrate on something else. One second too late, you have a fight. Too many people get serious wounds breaking up fights because they all reach for the damn collar. That's the LAST place you want to reach for when trying to break up a fight. Grab the hind legs and start pulling.
. They came from the same breeder and parents. We got the first one when she was 10 weeks old and the other when she was 9 weeks old. The dominant one is 1 ½ years old and the submissive one is 1 year old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow
This isn't just about same sex dogs, this is about sibling dogs.
I don't understand how that can be siblings, and have the same parents, and one is only 6 months older than the other. That means that this breeder bred the dam on the first heat after delivering puppies. That's HORRIBLE and indicative of an unethical breeder. You may have a lot more issues with these two coming from this breeder.
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There was nothing I could have done to prevent her from staring .
