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Old 07-07-2014, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,477 posts, read 43,582,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dualie View Post
why is it sad that the appearance of some breeds have changed in 100 years?
It's not just a matter of appearance. their health has been greatly compromised. In seeking a smaller and smaller head the King Charles Spaniel's brain is so compact in the skull that there are too many problems to discuss here.
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:01 PM
 
621 posts, read 1,038,939 times
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not all German Shepherds look like the over angulated dogs you are talking about. In fact the vast majority probably don't.

How do we know Cockers from 100 yrs ago didn't have worse health issues?

My breed, German Wirehaired Pointers have changed some from their original form, but today are much healthier, more physically and mentally sound they the original model. Heck, they are much better today then the first one's I had in the later 1970s .

We need to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush.
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Old 07-07-2014, 08:06 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
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I've seen a lot of German WHP's in Helena Montana. Lot's of Griff's too.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:59 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
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We can put the blame for this destruction of dog breeds squarely on the kennel clubs. They are the ones responsible for judging in the show ring and accepting changes to the breed standards.
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:13 PM
 
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We can also put the blame squarely on the buying public who accepts and wants these problematic breeds.

German Shepherds are # 2 in AKC registrations, Bulldogs # 5.

Shepherds have always been popular. But Bulldogs have gone from # 16 to solidly at # 5 in the past several years. People can't get enough of them. Breeders don't breed what they can't place.

By the way,when you go to a dog show and see those crippled looking German Shepherds running round the ring, consider this. Those dogs all have acceptable OFA hip numbers .The breed is almost 100% shown by pro handlers. No one will put the money into showing a dog with bad hips. Exterior looks and hip conformation do not necessarily match up. We'd like to believe it should, but it doesn't.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Montana
1,752 posts, read 1,645,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
this. It has been deliberate and mostly to the detriment of the breed. So sad.
Part of the problem is the AKC and other registration organizations focus on pedigree over health.

The fact that Fiona (outcrossing Dalmatian ~10-15 generations removed from the outcrossing and genetically better than 99.9% pure! but without kidney and bladder issues) was controversial at Crufts does not reflect well on the majority of breeders or the registering organizations that "claim" to have the best interests of the dog/breed in there requirements.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
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It is the breeders who determine the standards and the AKC is just a registry. frankly I don't think AKC stand for much any more.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Space Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It is the breeders who determine the standards and the AKC is just a registry. frankly I don't think AKC stand for much any more.
Almost... It is the national breed clubs that determine standards. Ideally they put it to a vote by the members, though in some breeds it somehow passes without members having a chance to vote or who have their votes 'lost' by the clique board of directors.
Yes, AKC is just a registry that keeps track of parentage, and I'm glad that was pointed out. I am sick to death of people blaming AKC or any of the other registries.


IMO, the blame for the poor structure in many breeds rests on the judges who reward them the wins at shows and the breeders who cater to what's currently winning (which is NOT all breeders) coupled with John Q Public who helps create a market for these dogs by buying them.
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Montana
1,752 posts, read 1,645,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
It's not just a matter of appearance. their health has been greatly compromised. In seeking a smaller and smaller head the King Charles Spaniel's brain is so compact in the skull that there are too many problems to discuss here.
And Kidney problems in 100% of non outcrossed Dalmations.
Pedigree Dogs Exposed - The Blog: Fiona at Crufts - a win for the breed

And Shar Pei Fever in a high percentage of Shar Pei.
Dr. Vidt's Website - Health Issues

I am sure there are a lot of others that could be listed. It seems the working breeds are less prone to some of these health issues because they allow lattitude in appearance to get behaviors/performance instead of focussing on a "look."

It may be a bit arbitrary, but IMO any dog that meets appearance standards and is 10 or more generations removed from an out cross should be registered "purebred" and allowed to compete as such. I think that would really help (healthwise) in certain overbred purebred dog lines that have known health and genetic issues due to breeding pool limitations.
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