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Hey listen, Harley_man: laugh all you want, but I have done my own research on the subject of pitbulls, and it's not through the news media, either. I 've personally talked to several pitbull owners and ex-pitbull owners who've agreed that their fighting propensity is definitely in their DNA, and that they're tougher to deal with and to train than most dogs, that they've gotten rid of them because they've proven to be too much trouble, and too much of a risk to keep dealing with, and others who've said that as soon as their present pitbull dies, that's it; they won't get anymore. So, that's fact enough, imo.
Just curious...do you have any credible links to back up your theory, facts and research? And are they one sided opinions and or written by APBT owners?
I'd be curious to see the links....but I think I already know.
Don't forget people, that most if not all of the negative hype and mentality was created by the media. And then sensationalized and spoon fed to the alarmists of the world. It's sad.
Hey listen, Harley_man: laugh all you want, but I have done my own research on the subject of pitbulls, and it's not through the news media, either. I 've personally talked to several pitbull owners and ex-pitbull owners who've agreed that their fighting propensity is definitely in their DNA, and that they're tougher to deal with and to train than most dogs, that they've gotten rid of them because they've proven to be too much trouble, and too much of a risk to keep dealing with, and others who've said that as soon as their present pitbull dies, that's it; they won't get anymore. So, that's fact enough, imo.
I will keep laughing because every pit bull I have ever owned has been the best dog I could ever ask for. I'm sorry but Your sources sound fake because if you ask most trainers a pit bull is easy to train because in their dna they are bred to want to please there owners more than anything. They only fight to please their owners because thats how their owners trained them. So you are contradicting yourself. You just have a dislike towards them and your prospective is searching for reasons to hate them. It's sad that most people think like you because if they really did there research instead of shooting there mouths off they would know that pit bulls out of any breed of dog was bred specifically to obey their owners. Ive talked to vets and breeders who dedicate their lives to studying this breed, and they have told me that pit bulls are more suitable as pets than anyother dog because they have had the pack mentallity bred out of them, because they are specifically bred to relate towards humans. My advice to you is read some books, talk to some vets, and talk to some respectable pit bull breeders before you have such a hatefull opinion.
Hey listen, Harley_man: laugh all you want, but I have done my own research on the subject of pitbulls, and it's not through the news media, either. I 've personally talked to several pitbull owners and ex-pitbull owners who've agreed that their fighting propensity is definitely in their DNA, and that they're tougher to deal with and to train than most dogs, that they've gotten rid of them because they've proven to be too much trouble, and too much of a risk to keep dealing with, and others who've said that as soon as their present pitbull dies, that's it; they won't get anymore. So, that's fact enough, imo.
What? Harley_man is a Pit Bull owner. So are several other members of this board. They are obviously not agreeing with what you and these other so called Pit owners have said. So why are you believing those pit/ex pit owners and not current Pit owners?
Even people who have owned a breed of dog will disagree. How well ownership of a certain breed works out for an individual depends on the particular dog and very much so on how the owner raises that dog. The reason most people get rid of their dogs - not Pit Bulls - any breed is because the dogs have bad habits barking, biting, nipping, digging, potty inside, tear things up, chase other animals, ect. They say the dogs are unruly, can't be trained or are just stupid. One person spoke of their dog it was a lab x pointer and they called it BB for Black Bitc..you know the rest. Their opinion was the dog was stupid and they didn't like her and complained about her. Too dumb to hunt, always jumps on me. There are so many more examples look up rescue groups of different breeds. Most people get rid of their dog because they are problematic. Most rescue groups list the dogs history, how it came to be there (stray, owner gave it up, ect) and why and any other history it that is known.
*I 've personally talked to several pitbull owners and ex-pitbull owners who've agreed that their fighting propensity is definitely in their DNA, and that they're tougher to deal with and to train than most dogs, that they've gotten rid of them because they've proven to be too much trouble, and too much of a risk to keep dealing with, and others who've said that as soon as their present pitbull dies, that's it; they won't get anymore.*
Well I didn't know how to break this up as it was a sentence with a paragraphs worth of words. So I'll try to respond to each part. Yes their fight drive is hardwired into them genetically. They can be naturally dog aggressive. This is the reason why dogs are culled who won't fight, they couldn't be forced into fighting just as a hunting dog can't be made to tree coon and those who don't are culled. The ones which quite during a fight would be killed and ones who did not would be bred. The trait being preserved was culled gameness, even a dog which lost a fight but showed great gameness (determination and never giving up in the face of adversity) was prized and sometimes given "best in show" even though it lost. This though again is just another positive that has come from a negative history, this same trait is what makes them put determination into other task even helpful ones like search and rescue. They won't give it.
Also this doesn't mean that all Pit Bulls will be dog aggressive and dog aggression levels can vary. It does mean that any potential owner should be aware of it. The owner shouldn't get this breed if they are going to get rid of it because it has DA issues. They knew the risk beforehand or should have it is their responsibility to train and socialize the dog as much as possible and work with any issues that arise. Traits are bred into all breeds of dogs genetically, they can also be bred out or lessoned. Example would be Filas, some people breed them to be unapproachable by any stranger (one owner even mentioned that at certain shows the dogs are allowed to growl at the judge and the judge shouldn't be able to touch the dog) others breed them with a softer temperament, they are still formidable guardians but are also sociable or at least indifferent to guest not aggressive.
What the owners have said from their personal experience really doesn't mean anything. Not in regards to restrictions or if they are a good/bad breed. While APBTs are one of the easiest breeds to train even if they were the worse and most hardest breed to train on the planet doesn't mean that they are dangerous to others and their owners. There are many breeds known for being stubborn and independent, it takes a lot of patience to work with them. Sometimes it even means backing off as some were meant to work without much direction from humans, others need it but the owner must know how to train them -trick the dog into thinking they want to do what you want them to do. There are plenty of breeds I won't own because they are stubborn, independent and hard to train. I will take one that is slightly challenging and even dominant but I don't want anything that will try my patience too much.
I have owned several breeds of dogs. Still to this day Pit and Boxer have been the easiest to train. Any breed that is handler sensitive, naturally human submissive and willing to please is going to be an easier breed to train. I happen to have a couple youngsters a Cane Corso and Pit Bull about the same age. The Cane Corso is definitely a challenge. I still love CCs too and I won't get rid of her just because she is harder to train or deal with. Got to love those great owners who dump their dogs when they are tired of them. She is harder to train then any APBT I've ever had. Of course I knew this going in as they are a smart and dominant breed. I do like that CC also thrive on human attention/praise because it can make them motivated to please but still a bit of a challenge, try and make me or turn it into a game where they can win by challenging you back and not doing what you wanted. I've had to totally readjust my training method to deal with a dog that isn't easy to train, one that won't do what I say when I say. While I must be consistent I can't be too firm either because if pushed she will challenge and push back. She would even bark at me, she knew exactly what I was saying and wanted but she had to see if she could get away with telling me off and not doing it. I have to stay calm and very patience. I have to ask firmly but nicely to get results. While I still very much enjoy CC I prefer the temperament of an APBT where they will just snap to attention and do as you wish right away. The 5 month old APBT has "always" been crate trained. She didn't really have to learn this. This is natural to dogs not to potty where they sleep but with pups sometimes they can't hold it or for some reason don't get the concept.
My 5 month CC has had a problem with pooing in the crate. She usually wouldn't pee, but almost always pooped. It has only been in the last month or so that I feel I can finally trust her. If we bring the Boerboel in the mix I will say the BB was even harder then the CC. Crate training wasn't the least bit fun (I thought she'd never get it, I couldn't allow her the least bit of opportunity to mess in it) and obedience training was very slow. BB mature slow and while they are large and sometimes dominant they are handler sensitive in reading moods. Many BB are ruined by their owners and become overly aggressive or excessively timid. This is because the owner expects too much of them too young and/or pushes them too hard. The owner gets angry or frustrated they pick up on that and the reaction is negative.
My 5 month old CC I have to take out. While she doesn't have a problem with "going" in the house I make sure that I take her out in time so that she doesn't because she won't let me know when she's got to go. My 5 month old APBT has been house trained since she was very young. I take my young pups out so that they don't have an accident, prevention is the key. I did the same with the APBT and CC. However the APBT is the one who has been going to the door since she was 9wks old when she needs to go out. The time she had an accident was my fault, because I probably missed her going to do the door. She pulled out some newspaper that was stacked and pooped on it. Great save for my carpet lesson learned for me to make sure I pay attention to her.
When it comes to obedience the APBT is already more advanced. The CC does know her basics, sit, stay, down, come, she also knows things like water, drink, food, toy, daddy. The APBT knows the same basics sit, stay, down, come and also knows lay down, on/off of something, come over (to jump over something), go under (to crawl under something) I just taught her that like 2 days ago what she went under was 7" and she learned it within 2 mins, stay down (to not jump something), crate (to go in her crate I think the CC knows this one too but she DOESN'T want to go in), she picked up on her weight pull commands within a few sessions, I also started teaching her to climb up or across things she isn't scared as the CC seems to take longer to warm up to things like that. Oh and she also knows things like drink, water, food, toy, daddy, couch, think thats it. These dogs are only a about 2 weeks apart with the APBT being younger. So it is very easy for me to gage who is learning faster and also who is easier to train.
One female (APBT) never saw a goat in her life until she was 6yrs old. Yet she learned to herd/drive them within just a couple weeks using voice command and hand signals. She new a lot of commands and words and learned to do many things. I don't understand how that would be considered hard to train or harder then most dogs. I have this same plan for my 5 month (the same which I'm teaching weight pull/agility).
Some people certainly are not bad owners and once their Pit passes on they won't get another. This is true of most any breed though. People keep to their responsibilities of that dog but find that the breed really doesn't suit them that well. They are being responsible to not get a breed which doesn't agree with them. One Pit owner elsewhere said that their current dog will be their last. They specifically said they love bully breeds and it isn't meant to be taken negatively. They just don't like dealing with dog aggression and the responsibilities that come with them.
My mom has said that she doesn't plan to own another Pit Bull and probably not a Boxer either. This isn't because they are hard to deal with or train. She said it is because of OTHER people. There is insurance black list and BSL. There are people who are scared of them by breed and she doesn't know how far they will go. If they will do something stupid or even evil. There is prejudice if her dog were to be attacked and defend herself she would be the one in trouble likely not the owner of the other breed. Pit Bulls are a breed sought after to steal and that would be a painful experience to wonder if the dog would end up being mistreated. Also there were a few Boxers stolen in her town too but I don't know if thats above average of other breeds. Pit Bulls were stolen a lot more.
I would just like to ask were did their dogs come from? Did they get them from a reputable breeder? And if they're owners didn't like them how much training did they really do with their dog?
Any dog can kill a human being, it's not just a bully.
None of this is based on any facts, just your media obssesed opinion. Your history of the breed is dead wrong. Your generalzation of breeders is dead wrong. Your storys of pitbull attacks on people are twisted around to make your point. You forgot to add about these storys and yes I did research that the dogs were neglected, beaten with bats, never taken out for walks, and tortured. I'm sure your temperment would be a little differant if I beat you with a bat and left you locked up in a one bedroom apartment all day. All you know about this breed is from what you have heard or seen on tv and 95% of the time is it's not even a pitbull. Please stop watching the news or reading articles to get all your facts. And stop generalizing about this breed.
Well, let's just agree to disagree here, because I stand by my positions on this subject.
I would just like to ask were did their dogs come from? Did they get them from a reputable breeder? And if they're owners didn't like them how much training did they really do with their dog?
Any dog can kill a human being, it's not just a bully.
Any dog can kill a human being?!? Now....that's what I'd call laughable. I don't agree with that assessment.
Ya know, If i wanted to, and I know I will be doing soon I can get all the info on dog attacks / roaming from around the town. I can get the breeds of dogs that have been put down for being vicious. Animal Control has already told me that "pitbulls" are not top of the list. People dont seem to care. They find a breed, read into all the sensationalism and run with it. Do you care that my friend wont walk his Pit because it was attacked by a Shepheard ? Probably not.
And dont forget this "This eventually led to bloodsports such as bull-baiting, popular for both entertainment and the potential for gambling. These practices extended not only from the British Isles but also to the colonies she acquired during this time, including what is now the United States and in particular the South; many settlers brought their dogs with them to help around the farm, hunt in the woods, guard property, and use in gambling."
Absolute rubbish, its a proven fact that "pitbulls" do not have a locking jaw. This is pure myth and its been proven they have regular jaws. Research this.
They were bread for 100% loyalty to people, a trait, which when trained right (like ANY) dog still shines out. The bit about drug dealers is obsurd too, they use any dog that will bark to let them know people are here, my ex neighbor used a GSD and Lab as his guard dogs.
Pitbulls do not just attack out of the blue no more than a lab or retriever does. In fact, there are studies out there to show that Pits have a better temprement, just troll the forums to see.
I always have my dog on a leash, so its a no brainer. EVERYBODY should have their dog on a leash. Muzzles are foolish. I muzzle my Staff, a lab attacks it and the I am in danger. I have to put my arm in their and pull the lab off my muzzled and leashed Staff, I get bitten. Well guess who I sue ? I sue the owner of the lab for me being bitten then Ill sue the City / County for putting me in that situation in the first place. Good law right there. A warning sign ? Should it have "Please Sue Me" under there too ? or "I have a dog thats classed as dangerous, please get scared for no reason and sue me". Absolutely foolish. If one person has to do it, every breed owner should.
So now you are lumping me and my family dog in with an ignorant multi millionaire thug with nothing better to do ?
I know there is no way to make people of your beliefs see sence, but come on! LMAO
Oh, baloney, BrianH. Nobody's conspiring to take your dogs away from you!! All that's being asked of people who already own pitbulls is for them to take responsibility and comply with the muzzling laws if they have one in their city or town. Not so much to ask.
The thread got moved from the Massachusetts forum to the Dog forum since I made that post... but I know that the pit bull supporters would have made it over there.
We all knew that this subject would attract the sharks, who're now here on a feeding frenzy
I get furious when I hear people downing these "bully" breeds. They are not for LAZY OWNERS who just want to bring home a companion. They require TRAINING. They are not a breed for people who are never home. They have to be socialized, like any other breed.
They want to WORK for you. The terrier in them is strong. Their special gifts have been used in crime prevention, search & rescue, and in Hollywood.
These regulations going up against them should apply to ALL breeds. In 2000, in LA, a Pomeranian killed a 6 week-old baby. Rotts & German Shepherds have high fatal bite records...
I am a Certified Veterinary Technician. I can say from personal experience that the breeds I have been in more danger around haven't had a drop of pit bull blood in them. In fact the bites I have received have been from a Border Collie, a Blue Heeler, and a Miniature Poodle. The pits & crosses we have had the pleasure to know have been perfect patients. Also, interestingly enough, in the vet med field, you will find a LOT of vets & techs own pits & their crossed cousins. There are a TON of labs but the least owned breed, for surprise aggression, are Chows. Ask your vet staff what kinds of dogs they own.
I own a Boxer/Pit, an American Bulldog, and an English Staffordshire Bull Terrier. All rescued, all trained, all family members, all love-a-bull (and they get along fine with 4 cats)!
Do you live out in the country, or in an urban or suburban area? Just curious, because, imho, one doesn't have to be a vet or vet tech to realize that these dogs don't belong in densely populated areas, particularly where there are lots of elders and young children around.
My second pit bull came with the house, I didnt know him from adam.
That's a big risk that you took there.
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She is harder to train then any APBT I've ever had. Of course I knew this going in as they are a smart and dominant breed. I do like that CC also thrive on human attention/praise because it can make them motivated to please but still a bit of a challenge, try and make me or turn it into a game where they can win by challenging you back and not doing what you wanted. I've had to totally readjust my training method to deal with a dog that isn't easy to train, one that won't do what I say when I say. While I must be consistent I can't be too firm either because if pushed she will challenge and push back. She would even bark at me, she knew exactly what I was saying and wanted but she had to see if she could get away with telling me off and not doing it. I have to stay calm and very patience. I have to ask firmly but nicely to get results. While I still very much enjoy CC I prefer the temperament of an APBT where they will just snap to attention and do as you wish right away. The 5 month old APBT has "always" been crate trained. She didn't really have to learn this. This is natural to dogs not to potty where they sleep but with pups sometimes they can't hold it or for some reason don't get the concept. 
