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Old 12-10-2014, 02:44 PM
 
14,376 posts, read 18,320,068 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
I know about that-- it's still a kennel. A kennel is not a home. For a stray that has never had a home- for a dog that lives on a chain in a yard, maybe it's step up. For a house pet, it's misery.

The OP's dog has dementia in addition to possible other problems. Have you ever had a dog with dementia, lived with one ? I have- more than once.

Old Beagle is not looking for dog buddies. Move her from familiar surroundings and she'll be so beyond confused that it's a tragedy. This old Beagle sleeps in a bed with her owner. You want to take her from that and put her into a concrete floored kennel with a little bed in a corner- how is that a good thing ?

There are worse things than death for a pet. Breaking a dog's heart and and foisting it off on someone else at the end of its time is one of them. The dog knows, you do understand that- they know they've been kicked to the curb.

I do breed rescue for two different breeds. We get the real old timers in sometimes. The ones no one wants because they're loaded with cancer or have half a dozen old age problems that make them impossible to live with. Their owners really think someone is going to adopt them or is going to pour tens of thousands of dollars in cancer treatment into them. Blind to reality, they convince themselves that dumping their dog onto someone else is just wondrous. Abandonment just hastens the end of these old guys. They go downhill fast.
I think it may depend on the dog. I have a 14-year-old border collie (15 in April) who is a one-person dog in a major way and is definitely dealing with at least a little dementia. She literally waits by the door when I go out until I return. I work from home, so she is used to basically spending about 20 hours a day with me. But when I leave her behind to go on a long trip she is distraught for a day or two and then just kind of latches on to my housemate. She's DELIGHTED when I return, but she pretty much just bumps along pretty happily as long as she gets some snuggles, regular feedings and a cozy place to stay. If I died tomorrow, I really hope that the family and friends handling my estate wouldn't put her down or anything like that but would instead provide her with a pleasant home.

I really wouldn't blame the OP for putting her dog down right now (that is probably what I would do, actually), but I think if Popcorn Park has an opening it wouldn't hurt to see if the dog settles in ok there. I've actually been to the place and toured their facilities about a decade ago. They were quite nice back then, with tons of volunteers, and the place has only grown more popular since then. Maybe giving her a few days to settle in wouldn't hurt, and then make the decision.

In particular, if they have other elderly beagles, the OP's dog may do ok. I grew up with hunting dogs, and the older dogs really always just wanted to hang out in the sunshine with other old dogs. Granted, those were not "pets," but the OP's dog apparently had her beginnings in that kind of situation, so maybe it wouldn't be THAT traumatic.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
37,029 posts, read 41,087,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
I know about that-- it's still a kennel. A kennel is not a home. For a stray that has never had a home- for a dog that lives on a chain in a yard, maybe it's step up. For a house pet, it's misery.

The OP's dog has dementia in addition to possible other problems. Have you ever had a dog with dementia, lived with one ? I have- more than once.

Old Beagle is not looking for dog buddies. Move her from familiar surroundings and she'll be so beyond confused that it's a tragedy. This old Beagle sleeps in a bed with her owner. You want to take her from that and put her into a concrete floored kennel with a little bed in a corner- how is that a good thing ?

There are worse things than death for a pet. Breaking a dog's heart and and foisting it off on someone else at the end of its time is one of them. The dog knows, you do understand that- they know they've been kicked to the curb.

I do breed rescue for two different breeds. We get the real old timers in sometimes. The ones no one wants because they're loaded with cancer or have half a dozen old age problems that make them impossible to live with. Their owners really think someone is going to adopt them or is going to pour tens of thousands of dollars in cancer treatment into them. Blind to reality, they convince themselves that dumping their dog onto someone else is just wondrous. Abandonment just hastens the end of these old guys. They go downhill fast.
Yes, I have lived with a dog with dementia. We lost her last month at age 14. Fortunately we did not have to deal with urinary incontinence, but she did do the "walk and drop" with poop. Godiva was my son's dog. She was diabetic and, by the time she died, almost blind. She came to live with us because their toddler was too much for her and she had problems negotiating the stairs in their home, including a long flight from their deck to go outside. She had no problems adjusting to our house. Of course, she did get visits with her former "pack", but there would be no reason that OP could not visit Cookie, too.

The only way to know whether Cookie would adapt to a new environment would be to try it. Essentially what you are saying is that any elderly pet should be euthanized rather than re-homed. Would that include one whose owner died?

Cookie, as far as I know, does not have cancer. I do think another vet evaluation would be a good idea.

Certainly it would not hurt for OP to visit the facility, see it first hand, and see if they would take Cookie.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:25 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,980,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
I know about that-- it's still a kennel. A kennel is not a home. For a stray that has never had a home- for a dog that lives on a chain in a yard, maybe it's step up. For a house pet, it's misery.

Old Beagle is not looking for dog buddies. Move her from familiar surroundings and she'll be so beyond confused that it's a tragedy. This old Beagle sleeps in a bed with her owner. You want to take her from that and put her into a concrete floored kennel with a little bed in a corner- how is that a good thing ?

There are worse things than death for a pet. Breaking a dog's heart and and foisting it off on someone else at the end of its time is one of them. The dog knows, you do understand that- they know they've been kicked to the curb.

Blind to reality, they convince themselves that dumping their dog onto someone else is just wondrous. Abandonment just hastens the end of these old guys. They go downhill fast.
I agree. I say that as someone who has worked in rescue for many years, and has taken in many senior dogs. I have a 10+ year old foster dog sleeping at my feet now. I have seen dogs confused when they are dropped off at my house and the owner can't wait to leave; I have seen dogs slowly come to understand that their human isn't coming back and to work through that grief. I can't imagine doing that to an 18 year old dog who, let's face it, may only have days or weeks left to live.

The OP mentioned that Cookie hasn't been to a vet, so we don't know what is wrong with her. It could be anything, and Cookie may be suffering- we just don't know. Cookie should have been taken to a vet a long time ago when this first started, but she wasn't, so now the owners want to get rid of her for something that might be treatable. This is wrong. These owners need to step up and do the right thing for Cookie.

No, I don't think a dog should be euthanized because it is old or its owner dies, but each situation is different. Here, yes, I do think that the owners should take responsibility for Cookie and allow her to pass gently with the only family she has ever known. They need to do what is best for Cookie, not what is easiest or most convenient for them.
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Old 12-10-2014, 11:35 PM
ZSP
 
Location: Paradise
1,765 posts, read 5,109,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
Oh for goodness sakes- you should have guilt about what you're planning. Popcorn Park is not a sanctuary for old dogs. They try to adopt out their dogs.

Your dog is not adoptable at her age and with her conditions. Even if they agreed to take her, they would just take her out back and put her down when you left.

You surely don't think your dementia afflicted dog is going to adapt to kennel living. Can you imagine her fear and terror at changing her living situation. She's confused enough as it is. Going from people she knows to strangers and a kennel where she will be alone, to listening to the constant barking of other upset dogs.

If you want to do right by your dog, take her to the vet and have her put down. Be there with her. At least she will die in the arms of people she knows. Dogs live in the present, they don't know about tomorrow, they're not worried about tomorrow. Let her go peacefully with you.

At this point in time, it's about what is best for the dog if she is too much to care for anymore. Being abandoned to strangers, and that is what it is, is not in her best interests. It's about dumping her problems onto to someone else, making her last days miserable and kidding yourself that you're doing a good thing. You're not. You should have no guilt at putting her down. She's an old dog with a tangle of problems and her time has simply come. Between your two options, euthanizing is the better one for the dog.

Sorry you're going through this. It is never easy.
I agree with this too. I've always said there are things worse than death.
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Manchester Township, NJ
474 posts, read 1,257,559 times
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Interesting viewpoints. Just so people know--Cookie has rarely shown any affection towards us. She has never greeted us when we come home. She slept apart from me until she went deaf. Really never a "pet" in the sense of having affection and bonding with owners. We've had 5 dogs so we are not novices. At the shelter when we went to find a dog she was all friendly and happy but as soon as we got her home it was like night and day. We had two weeks to give her back but thought if we did so they would euthanize her. So we kept her, not wanting a healthy dog to be put down.

Apparently she has missed out on socialization with humans to a large degree. We did our best since 2006. There has been some improvement but she still wouldn't be considered a house dog and seems quite happy to be outside. She has never played with toys no matter how hard we tried to get her interested in them. When my husband had his bypass surgery in 2012 she stayed with my brother and his family for a week as the operation was done out of town. She basically ignored his two dogs. When I arrived to pick her up and take her home she didn't even look at me.

When I had my cancer surgery it seemed like she didn't even notice I had been gone. I am so used to dogs greeting owners but not once has she done this. Still, we have gotten used to having her around and it is obvious she wants to be near us now that she is more infirm.

Cookie does not have cancer, and only lately has some arthritis crept into her hind legs. She can go on 1 1/2 hour walks with no problem.

She simply is not that ill otherwise. "Putting her down" right now would seem like murder, which is why we are desperately trying to find the best solution. We've grown to love her over the years, but the sleep deprivation, urination all over the house (with the ammonia fumes) etc. has really taken its toll on us. Last month I had a bad fall in the kitchen because it was dark and I did not see the puddle of urine on the floor. That is why we are looking at the Popcorn situation not for anyone to adopt her but to assure she gets better care than we can possibly give her at this point. I am constantly tired and can fall asleep at a moment's notice.

My mother finally entered a nursing home earlier this year because my brother could no longer take care of her in her deteriorating condition. She passed away this past June. It almost feels like the same kind of thing now with Cookie--slow but sure going downhill and wearing out the caregivers to the point of exhaustion.

I hope some of you can see my point. Even not being an affectionate dog, we care for her and yes, love her. Last night she did a rare thing--slept right up against my body. But usually she just stays at the foot of the bed. If I try to pet her paw or leg she just pulls it away like "don't touch me". A strange combination in a dog, for sure. I put it down to her being a hunter for probably all her life until we adopted her. Plus beagles are very independent and stubborn!

So those who want to think ill of us-I understand. Years ago I would have felt the same way. We kept her predecessor who was riddled with cancer at home until she died in the living room with me right next to her. But she never was high maintenance. So we don't just rush to have an animal put down. I'm worried about my hubby's heart condition and the stress this is putting on him. Hope this clears up some of the questions people might have.
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Old 12-11-2014, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,788 posts, read 21,942,589 times
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I wanted to answer in defense of the neighbors having lived through someone who kept a dog "going" and watching it suffer. Almost 10 years ago, I had to make the decision to have our 14 year old 75 lb dog put down. It was the hardest decision I ever made in my long life. This was after watching the neighbor with her suffering dog. She told me "I'm not ready to let him go." and I said "It's not about you."

I read that dogs often try to hide their suffering from their owner. I could see that the neighbor needed her dog and I am sure the dog knew it. it was a terrible ordeal to watch and because she had watched the dog slowly decline, I am not sure that she saw the situation for what it was.

It is not murder to have an suffering animal put down. It is about compassion and obligation. There are worse things than death with suffering being at the very top of the list.

OP, you cannot afford to care properly for these dogs anymore so please don't take in anymore. You have done your part in the past. I hope you find the compassion to do the right thing whether that entails begging the vets in your are to allow your dog to be seen with payments into the future, calling around to see if there might be any funding in your area for low income people with ill pets or compassionately and unselfishly letting the dog go.
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Old 12-11-2014, 10:27 AM
 
Location: SW Florida
14,888 posts, read 12,049,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecayingAngel View Post
Interesting viewpoints. Just so people know--Cookie has rarely shown any affection towards us. She has never greeted us when we come home. She slept apart from me until she went deaf. Really never a "pet" in the sense of having affection and bonding with owners. We've had 5 dogs so we are not novices. At the shelter when we went to find a dog she was all friendly and happy but as soon as we got her home it was like night and day. We had two weeks to give her back but thought if we did so they would euthanize her. So we kept her, not wanting a healthy dog to be put down.

Apparently she has missed out on socialization with humans to a large degree. We did our best since 2006. There has been some improvement but she still wouldn't be considered a house dog and seems quite happy to be outside. She has never played with toys no matter how hard we tried to get her interested in them. When my husband had his bypass surgery in 2012 she stayed with my brother and his family for a week as the operation was done out of town. She basically ignored his two dogs. When I arrived to pick her up and take her home she didn't even look at me.

When I had my cancer surgery it seemed like she didn't even notice I had been gone. I am so used to dogs greeting owners but not once has she done this. Still, we have gotten used to having her around and it is obvious she wants to be near us now that she is more infirm.

Cookie does not have cancer, and only lately has some arthritis crept into her hind legs. She can go on 1 1/2 hour walks with no problem.

She simply is not that ill otherwise. "Putting her down" right now would seem like murder, which is why we are desperately trying to find the best solution. We've grown to love her over the years, but the sleep deprivation, urination all over the house (with the ammonia fumes) etc. has really taken its toll on us. Last month I had a bad fall in the kitchen because it was dark and I did not see the puddle of urine on the floor. That is why we are looking at the Popcorn situation not for anyone to adopt her but to assure she gets better care than we can possibly give her at this point. I am constantly tired and can fall asleep at a moment's notice.

My mother finally entered a nursing home earlier this year because my brother could no longer take care of her in her deteriorating condition. She passed away this past June. It almost feels like the same kind of thing now with Cookie--slow but sure going downhill and wearing out the caregivers to the point of exhaustion.

I hope some of you can see my point. Even not being an affectionate dog, we care for her and yes, love her. Last night she did a rare thing--slept right up against my body. But usually she just stays at the foot of the bed. If I try to pet her paw or leg she just pulls it away like "don't touch me". A strange combination in a dog, for sure. I put it down to her being a hunter for probably all her life until we adopted her. Plus beagles are very independent and stubborn!

So those who want to think ill of us-I understand. Years ago I would have felt the same way. We kept her predecessor who was riddled with cancer at home until she died in the living room with me right next to her. But she never was high maintenance. So we don't just rush to have an animal put down. I'm worried about my hubby's heart condition and the stress this is putting on him. Hope this clears up some of the questions people might have.
I don't have any suggestions that haven't been mentioned by others, but I just wanted to say that the love and devotion you have given to Cookie over the years are obvious in your posts, and I find it touching. She's one lucky dog, especially as she sounds like she's been difficult to have around lots of times. I'm sorry that you're going through such a struggle with her at this time, with your own health issues it's even worse.

I wish you the best, and know that whatever decisions you make about Cookie, whether you take her to Popcorn Park, or decide the best and maybe only thing you can humanely do is to put her down, you'll have done out of your love and concern for her.
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:43 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,980,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DecayingAngel View Post
Just so people know--Cookie has rarely shown any affection towards us. She has never greeted us when we come home. She slept apart from me until she went deaf. Really never a "pet" in the sense of having affection and bonding with owners.

When I arrived to pick her up and take her home she didn't even look at me.

When I had my cancer surgery it seemed like she didn't even notice I had been gone. I am so used to dogs greeting owners but not once has she done this. Still, we have gotten used to having her around and it is obvious she wants to be near us now that she is more infirm.

>I am not sure what it is that you want us to take away from these statements about the way you interpret her behavior? Dogs have individual personalities just like people. That she didn't show you the affection you felt she should doesn't mean she isn't bonded to your and your husband, nor does not lessen your responsibility to her at this time<


Cookie does not have cancer

>How do you know this? You haven't taken her to the vet. Cancer can grow very quickly. I had a little beagle mix who was dead from cancer 6 months after a full exam. You won't know what is wrong with Cookie unless she has a full workup including blood and abdominal x-rays. Her incontinence may be dementia, but it also could be treatable.<


I hope some of you can see my point. Even not being an affectionate dog, we care for her and yes, love her. Last night she did a rare thing--slept right up against my body. But usually she just stays at the foot of the bed. If I try to pet her paw or leg she just pulls it away like "don't touch me". A strange combination in a dog, for sure. I put it down to her being a hunter for probably all her life until we adopted her. Plus beagles are very independent and stubborn!

>This breaks my heart- for so many reasons<
If you really care for this dog take it for a full vet exam to see what is wrong with her- pretty simple. Take a taxi or ask a friend for a ride; explain your situation to the vet and ask to pay over a couple of months. She may have a simple bladder infection or something else that is treatable.

I read your explanations, but your professions of love for don't jive with the tone of your words-the multiple statements about how she isn't affectionate- or your actions thus far- not taking her to the vet. Not sure what is really going on here but my gut says something stinks.
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Old 12-12-2014, 10:35 AM
 
2,756 posts, read 3,792,083 times
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Take the dog to a vet. Very likely a bladder infection that can be cleared up quickly.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Manchester Township, NJ
474 posts, read 1,257,559 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txdemo View Post
Take the dog to a vet. Very likely a bladder infection that can be cleared up quickly.
She was treated for a bladder infection but it did nothing to help
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