Please rethink that spay/neuter... (lab, bulldogs, veterinarian, train)
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I am not trying to argue with you but I must point out that he actually does address mammary cancer. He writes, in part: "These animals with breast cancer were likely multiply vaccinated, for years if not for life. They were likely fed kibble, a very species inappropriate diet, full of toxic byproducts, preservatives, and starches. They may also have been treated with the ever present flea pesticides. Add in the risky heartworm drugs given monthly, and you can imagine spaying was perhaps one small reason for their disease."
And I think that's where I started to get a creepy "non-vac" vibe from the author. MOST dogs eat kibble, MOST dogs are probably over vaccinated, MOST dogs are treated with flea and tick killer (and heartworm preventatives)...and many are probably neutered. But I would find it just as likely that neutering is MUCH less likely to be the cause of the problems.
I agree that most vaccinations are given at a "one size fits all" approach. I agree that neutering is also suggested at those schedules. I also agree that as an owner, I choose to vaccinate my dogs less. I also don't generally use flea or tick solutions (because my dog really is an indoor dog), and, given some of this view on neutering, I might wait to neuter a pup (should I ever get one of those again).
Jumpindogs, you go on to note that you take a very holistic approach to the care of your dogs. That's great and it's what works for you...but I would venture to say that MOST owners take a much more mainstream view of pet life. My dog is a part of my family and I love him no less because I feed him kibble and rely very much on 'western' veterinary medicine.
I have no problem with the shared info and would change my suggestions about neutering to be something along the lines of - "talk to your vet about the risks (both short term and long term) of neutering before scheduling that for your pup". For an older rescue dog, I would not hesitate to have them neutered. My boy was about 18 mos when he got snipped.
From the article: "My newer recommendation goes something like this now:
If you can prevent unplanned pregnancies, (and if you have a female and don’t mind living through heat cycles) you may want to keep your animal intact and not neuter.
IMO the IF is the big problem for the average pet owner. They'll think they can prevent it - and may have the best of intentions - but I'd be willing to bet that there will be a lot of unplanned litters if people wait longer to spay, or decide not to do it at all.
People should make informed decisions. However, I really question whether the average pet owner will read the article carefully, take time to research opposing viewpoints and then thoroughly think through all the implications of keeping their dog intact. Again, if someone is involved in dog sports or dog shows then I can understand waiting.
Not everyone gets everything right 100% of the time but in this case the consequences of not getting it right are pretty big. The fate of accidental litters/unwanted dogs can be pretty ugly. I think it's naive to think that later spaying/neutering or not spaying/neutering at all won't result in more unwanted pets.
Knock on wood I only had 2 oops breeding!! I was in the hospital when one of my cockers went into heat! Wouldn't been bad IF I only had cockers & 1 male But I had Shelties ...2 were males & Collies 1 male & of course 1 cocker male I gave her to a lady that took her right to the vet & spayed her! Then I had a female cocker that got tied with my male Rottie! Shes was Crated in my bedroom he was crated in the living room! All doors in between were closed & locked! We were gone 15 mins! Walked in they were tied! He busted out of his crate took Both doors OFF the hinges! Tied thru her crate!! After the tie I took her right to my vet he spayed her! No Oops about it! He made up his mind & got to her! BTW he too was fixed! I gave them both away to good homes!
All these pros & cons about S/N is crazy cause it really boils down to there are TOO many dogs needing homes NOT to fix those that shouldn't have pups to begin with. BTW another study decades ago found out the environment pups are raise under can also contribute to bad hips knees & elbows! There are Too many things that can contribute to health problems! Another study showed Animals that got cancer 9 out of 10 their owners smoked! So to now say S/N caused XXX problems is crazy! I known folks that did the early s/n 8 weeks old those pups lived years past what was normal for the breed! BUT a study showed early s/n caused the dogs to grow Bigger than their counter parts. BUT the study didn't say what the dogs were fed. How they were exercised, etc.
not getting something right 100% or even 90% is far different that the 1/2 to 2/3rds you quoted. if I got it wrong that often I would stop.
seriously I am glad you are a well informed dog owner and take great care of your pets.
Actually it's not at all different. From what you write above either I did not explain myself properly or you misunderstood my comment.
This is what I wrote "I think about half to two thirds of the breeders I know have had one oops litter."
Of the many breeders I know (at least a hundred spanning many breeds) prolly 1/2 to 2/3 of them have had ONE oops litter over their long breeding career. That means that each of the breeders in that group (prolly 50 to 66 breeders just to clarify the concept using a guesstimate) who had an oops litter got it wrong ONCE. And the other 33-50 (another guesstimate) NEVER had an oops litter and NEVER got it wrong.
I am sure that if any one individual responsible breeder got it wrong 50-66% of the time she/he would stop breeding also.
Spay and neuter. I've had to euthanize more cats and dogs due to lack of space at the shelter than I ever care to remember. I hope to god this article doesn't give people an excuse to be irresponsible. Until permits for breeding are mandatory and fines are put into place we will always have an overpopulation problem.
Sad but true. Lots of people who can barely take care of themselves, and who cannot afford proper pet care, are nonetheless breeding away. Lot of so called designer breeds are coming from such sources are are poorer bred versions of the highly popular breeds. Interestingly, reputable breeders will make you sign a contract you will spay / neuter within X months, if the purchase is not for setting up breeding / is a pet purchase.
The neutered animals tend to get obese more easily than their intact cohorts. This has been studied in cats as well as dogs. This has also been commonly seen in practice over many generations of dogs. I strongly suspect that this is due to carbohydrate laden foods (i.e. kibble) being fed to carnivores, especially the cat. You can have a big influence here by making good feeding choices in both species.
While this IS true MOST dogs & Cats become Fat do to the Thyroid Not Working Right After being put to sleep FOR the Operation! So YES getting Fix can cause an animal to become Fat! Before you blame Lack of Exercise or improper food! HAVE THYROID Tests Done!!
I think that's bull never had obese dog. In fact I see more women and dogs that got fat after having children. Dogs are like humans need good diet and exercise. My 16 years Lucky is doing fine.
Sad but true. Lots of people who can barely take care of themselves, and who cannot afford proper pet care, are nonetheless breeding.
I don't understand what you mean by that statement. A lot of people who are poor really do love and want to give the proper vet care for their pets, including spay/neuter. Some of them do not know there are low cost programs out there. For example, I was at a local county sponsored rabies clinic this past Saturday. I overheard this lady who brought her puppy to get the low cost rabies shot talk about how she would like fix her dog but couldn't afford it. Her friend tells her that the county offers a $50 spay for her dog as long as she provides proof of income. Sometimes a little help goes a long way.
perhaps not strident in not neutering but strident in your insistence that this information is groundbreaking or so important as to change the way people who spay their pets think.
it isn't necessarily that people disagree with the article, it is that the information presented does not negate what they think about the need to neutering/spay. for some reason you don't seem to want to acknowledge that but instead when you use phrases like "do they think he is lying" "emotionally attached" "trying to keep the info from people" "didn't bother to read" all seem to imply people who don't agree and don't find the info as important as you do are foolish, emotional, lazy and stupid. your points are better served by leaving out the personal expression of disbelief.
it is a huge tell for me that breeders continue to have 1/2 to 2/3rds opps litters. as I said they are supposed to be the most responsible. trying to maintain the standards for the breed, both conformational and health. opps litter should not be happening from a breeder.
if breeders don't have a better average in stopping unwanted litters why would anyone think the average pet owner would.
It is groundbreaking information. For many years we have all believed that there were only positives associated with spay/neuter and no negatives beyond the typical considerations for any surgery where an animal is anesthetized. And it certainly is important enough for some people to change the way they think about spay/neuter. But I never suggested that any posters on this thread should change their own opinions nor did I make a blanket statement that people in general should change their opinion based on this new information about spay/neuter. I did subject this thread "Please rethink that spay/neuter..." That means precisely what I wrote, nothing more and nothing less. Rethink.
When people wrote that they disagreed with the article I took them at face value. I can't help it if they didn't mean what they wrote...grrrrr! All my replies...the ones you classify as my personal expressions of disbelief...were based on taking those posts at face value (not because people retained their opinion about spay/neuter!) and were written in response to posters who wrote that they disagreed with the article. Yourself included. Words matter.
BTW, if you are going to quote me please quote me accurately. Copy and paste would help. I never wrote "didn't bother to read" or "emotionally attached". I try to word my posts respectfully and clearly so there is little chance of potential insult or misunderstanding.
I don't think the average pet owner would have a better average...BTW, I never wrote that...and I doubt the author thinks so either. But I do think that pet owners who are very responsible, with the health of their animal companions foremost in their minds, with a strong motivation to prevent unwanted litters and who decide to keep their companion animals intact would be successful in stopping unwanted litters...easily much more successful than those breeders because most of those breeders have many more dogs than the pet owner I just described. Simple math.
Your contention that a responsible breeder should not have an oops litter is correct. They try very hard to avoid them but sometimes life can get in the way as in Katie1's example. That does not mean they are not responsible. That's an awfully hard line you draw for people.
As someone who has worked professionally with dogs my entire life, I have seen first-hand, over and over and over and infinitum, the horrible health consequences of early spay and neuters.
I'm not even going to debate it here. K9 professionals with years of experience know the truth via real-life experience following thousands of dogs over their lifespans... not just regurgitating group-think and blog fluff pieces on the internet written by questionable random people.
I could write a book, so I wont even debate the issue...
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I gave her to a lady that took her right to the vet & spayed her! Then I had a female cocker that got tied with my male Rottie! Shes was Crated in my bedroom he was crated in the living room! All doors in between were closed & locked! We were gone 15 mins! Walked in they were tied! He busted out of his crate took Both doors OFF the hinges! Tied thru her crate!! After the tie I took her right to my vet he spayed her! No Oops about it! He made up his mind & got to her! BTW he too was fixed! I gave them both away to good homes! 
