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Thanks everybody...at least to the folks they gave decent and informative responses.
I'll wait until about 6 months and see if he improves...or gets worse. To those that wonder if I am attending a dog obedience class? Yes. The instructor and I did discuss it and see it as an option for a very head-strong dog. I also know HOW to use one. I just wanted to be sure, from others that have perhaps been through this....what age would be appropriate to start using one...if I even do.
Thanks everybody...at least to the folks they gave decent and informative responses.
I'll wait until about 6 months and see if he improves...or gets worse. To those that wonder if I am attending a dog obedience class? Yes. The instructor and I did discuss it and see it as an option for a very head-strong dog. I also know HOW to use one. I just wanted to be sure, from others that have perhaps been through this....what age would be appropriate to start using one...if I even do.
For a dog that will get at max 22 lbs? I wouldn't use a prong collar. Ever. Much less one that is 15 weeks old.
Teach your pup where you want him to be. You shouldn't be using a cue yet. You don't put a cue to a behavior until your pup loves and understands the behavior.
At this point, I would start from the beginning-
Since you feel that the pup being in heel position is such a safety issue, I would teach it as a default behavior = one that he automatically goes to until you tell him to do something else.
When he is in the approximate zone where you want him, treat from that hand, start from a standing still position, walk a step or two, treat when he is in the zone or when he returns to the zone. Increase steps and walking distance, always always treating consistently and regularly with high value treats when he is in the position.
Do not ever tighten the leash on him- if safety is an issue then practice in a green space where he can learn that he has the choice to move away from your side = no treat or move back into position = treat.
When you tighten the leash it triggers the dog's reflex to pull against you, so don't tighten the leash, and don't allow him to tighten the leash on you= use smooching sounds or pat your thigh, turn and walk in opposite direction if he wanders far enough that he may pull.
You do NOT want him to learn that he can pull or that pulling gets him what he wants, so interrupt that behavior before it begins. This means that you need to pay attention to him when you are walking or doing a training session.
In between training sessions with the flat collar, use a body harness to manage him until he has nice leash manners on the flat collar.
ALL pups go through a period from about 8 months - 14 months where they backslide and seem to forget every ounce of training they ever knew. During this period you will want to use the body harness to manage him on leash walks so that he doesn't learn to pull.
You will get out of your dog what you put into him. Gentle consistent training now will result in a solid dog with good manners, but you need to be realistic and set reasonable goals for him. He is just a pup and will behave like a pup.
That said, it is never too early to begin training. Many reputable breeders are starting age-appropriate training at about 4 weeks old teaching chase games that will evolve into a solid recall, capturing sits and downs, and socializing to sounds, noises, people, dogs, impulse control, etc. with the result that by the time the pup is ready to go to their new home they will already have a solid foundation in basic obedience.
Above all- training your pup should be fun for both of you; if you are getting or even thinking about getting into a battle of wills such that you are thinking now about a pinch collar, then you are doing it wrong. Back up and re-think your mindset: your relationship with your pup should be paramount, and there are 101 ways to reinforce relationship and boundaries, and provide guidance gently without using pain or force.
Thanks everybody...at least to the folks they gave decent and informative responses.
See, this snarky comment might lead some to think you are too immature to know how to use a prong collar correctly regardless, given your resistance to listen to answers that you asked for but that you just don't like. Everyone who answered (so far, at least) gave you decent and informative answers. Listen and learn.
See, this snarky comment might lead some to think you are too immature to know how to use a prong collar correctly regardless, given your resistance to listen to answers that you asked for but that you just don't like. Everyone who answered (so far, at least) gave you decent and informative answers. Listen and learn.
BTW, the correct spelling is "heel", not "heal".
Thank you for the spelling correction.
I don't have "resistance" toward answers to my question. What I take objection to is rude, condescending responses.
My opinionion: 15 weeks is too young to expect a puppy to heel more than half a minute and no more than 3 or 4 times during a walk. Heeling takes mental concentration. A puppy should learn it but not do it except for brief periods.
I would not use a prong collar before 7 or 8 months. If you need more control at this age, I suggest a head collar.
I don't use a prong or a head collar. Instead I train controlled walking. The pup is given the full leash length, but every time the pup pulls, I change direction. He'll get a little jerk, which is certainly not my fault. I use a very cheerful voice and say "oops! What happened?" Or "hey, I'm going this way" or "don't get left behind".
The usual pup reaction is a big grin and to hurry to catch up. Even a real knot head will figure out that he can go to the end of the lease but not actually pull.
Alternate heeling and loose walking. When I heel, I bustle. We are moving. I am walking fast and the dog trots. The high speed helps him to focus. He knows that if I change directions it will be really quick so he has to focus in to catch it.
My opinionion: 15 weeks is too young to expect a puppy to heel more than half a minute and no more than 3 or 4 times during a walk. Heeling takes mental concentration. A puppy should learn it but not do it except for brief periods.
I would not use a prong collar before 7 or 8 months. If you need more control at this age, I suggest a head collar.
I don't use a prong or a head collar. Instead I train controlled walking. The pup is given the full leash length, but every time the pup pulls, I change direction. He'll get a little jerk, which is certainly not my fault. I use a very cheerful voice and say "oops! What happened?" Or "hey, I'm going this way" or "don't get left behind".
The usual pup reaction is a big grin and to hurry to catch up. Even a real knot head will figure out that he can go to the end of the lease but not actually pull.
Alternate heeling and loose walking. When I heel, I bustle. We are moving. I am walking fast and the dog trots. The high speed helps him to focus. He knows that if I change directions it will be really quick so he has to focus in to catch it.
I've used this method of walking on lead also and it's worked with every one of my five.
My opinionion: 15 weeks is too young to expect a puppy to heel more than half a minute and no more than 3 or 4 times during a walk. Heeling takes mental concentration. A puppy should learn it but not do it except for brief periods.
I would not use a prong collar before 7 or 8 months. If you need more control at this age, I suggest a head collar.
I don't use a prong or a head collar. Instead I train controlled walking. The pup is given the full leash length, but every time the pup pulls, I change direction. He'll get a little jerk, which is certainly not my fault. I use a very cheerful voice and say "oops! What happened?" Or "hey, I'm going this way" or "don't get left behind".
The usual pup reaction is a big grin and to hurry to catch up. Even a real knot head will figure out that he can go to the end of the lease but not actually pull.
Alternate heeling and loose walking. When I heel, I bustle. We are moving. I am walking fast and the dog trots. The high speed helps him to focus. He knows that if I change directions it will be really quick so he has to focus in to catch it.
Thanks...yes, that has been working for most instances. It's a challenge.
For a dog that will get at max 22 lbs? I wouldn't use a prong collar. Ever. Much less one that is 15 weeks old.
Teach your pup where you want him to be. You shouldn't be using a cue yet. You don't put a cue to a behavior until your pup loves and understands the behavior.
At this point, I would start from the beginning-
Since you feel that the pup being in heel position is such a safety issue, I would teach it as a default behavior = one that he automatically goes to until you tell him to do something else.
When he is in the approximate zone where you want him, treat from that hand, start from a standing still position, walk a step or two, treat when he is in the zone or when he returns to the zone. Increase steps and walking distance, always always treating consistently and regularly with high value treats when he is in the position.
Do not ever tighten the leash on him- if safety is an issue then practice in a green space where he can learn that he has the choice to move away from your side = no treat or move back into position = treat.
When you tighten the leash it triggers the dog's reflex to pull against you, so don't tighten the leash, and don't allow him to tighten the leash on you= use smooching sounds or pat your thigh, turn and walk in opposite direction if he wanders far enough that he may pull.
You do NOT want him to learn that he can pull or that pulling gets him what he wants, so interrupt that behavior before it begins. This means that you need to pay attention to him when you are walking or doing a training session.
In between training sessions with the flat collar, use a body harness to manage him until he has nice leash manners on the flat collar.
ALL pups go through a period from about 8 months - 14 months where they backslide and seem to forget every ounce of training they ever knew. During this period you will want to use the body harness to manage him on leash walks so that he doesn't learn to pull.
You will get out of your dog what you put into him. Gentle consistent training now will result in a solid dog with good manners, but you need to be realistic and set reasonable goals for him. He is just a pup and will behave like a pup.
That said, it is never too early to begin training. Many reputable breeders are starting age-appropriate training at about 4 weeks old teaching chase games that will evolve into a solid recall, capturing sits and downs, and socializing to sounds, noises, people, dogs, impulse control, etc. with the result that by the time the pup is ready to go to their new home they will already have a solid foundation in basic obedience.
Above all- training your pup should be fun for both of you; if you are getting or even thinking about getting into a battle of wills such that you are thinking now about a pinch collar, then you are doing it wrong. Back up and re-think your mindset: your relationship with your pup should be paramount, and there are 101 ways to reinforce relationship and boundaries, and provide guidance gently without using pain or force.
The size of my dog hasn't anything to do with it really. I don't use a leash to pull him because of his size or strength.
I've had giant dogs that are very easy on a collar and have an extremely mild temperment. This is my second Welsh, but my fourth terrier. My Airedale was very easy to leash train. He had a gentle spirit. My Wire Hair Fox was a bit daunting...but still didn't require a pinch. Now my first Welsh? He was a strong willed rascal that had a mind of his own. He was a fantastic dog though. Very loving. The only way, after trying all the methods I found available, to get him to hold a proper and consistent "heel"...was using a prong/pinch collar. I eventually didn't need it after about 6 months however. He understood exactly how to heel by then no matter what collar I used.
My new puppy seems even more strong willed than my first Welsh. I realize it's too soon to slap a pinch collar on the little guy...but I was wondering that IF he was still having heeling issues....how soon is too soon for a pinch collar. That's what I was asking and most folks were very helpful and kind in answering.
Your problem is the way you are training the dog, not the type of collar. That you think you know anything about collars and their appropriate uses, when you obviously can't train the dog (since you mentioned this happened to another dog) is laughable.
Take the dog to a professional dog trainer. Do not use the pinch.
I disagree. The pinch collar is a training tool, just like many others. People are prejudiced against pinch collars because of their appearance. They assume they are cruel, when they have no idea how they really function. The prongs themselves are not sharp. If you don't believe me, feel one for yourself. The combination of the prongs around the dogs neck exerts pressure when the dogs pulls away from the owner. When the dog stays close to the owner, the pressure is released. They don't stab the dog. Choke collars are notoriously ineffective, and pinch collars are much better at controlling dogs.
After my strong Great Dane female went after a squirrel and my finger got caught in her leash, resulting is a bad twisting fracture, which necessitated orthopedic surgery and pins and wires being put in my finger, I changed my tune on pinch collars pretty quickly I now use them on both Great Danes, and they are a dream with them. As for when you should use the pinch OP, I suggest you go ahead with it. Just be sure the fit is good, and remember the heel training as well. Have fun!
Glad to hear you are taking a class. The Only time I known anyone that used a pinch collar was a lady with a tiny yorkie. She was 3 years old but the size of a 6 week old puppy, other collars caused Trachea to Collapse by the time the dog was 4 yrs old she died! The lady was walking her across the parking lot dog went into a coughing fit died.
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I've used this method of walking on lead also and it's worked with every one of my five.
I now use them on both Great Danes, and they are a dream with them. As for when you should use the pinch OP, I suggest you go ahead with it. Just be sure the fit is good, and remember the heel training as well. Have fun!
