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Old 11-20-2015, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Lost in Montana *recalculating*...
19,746 posts, read 22,654,259 times
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Wow. I couldn't live that way, lol.


Well I guess there are ways to accomplish the same thing, but my tactic is to always introduce a leash after they are already willing partners, so to speak. When I lived at our families farm in Ohio our farm dogs had never seen a leash (unless going to a vet). They would roam all they wanted to, but if I wanted one to stay with me all I had to do was call their name and say something like "Let's go to the barn" and they would stick right by my side.


I don't have a lot of familiarity with leashes or some specific 'method' to train with them. I never had much of a cause to. All I know is my dogs don't fear them, aren't aggressive while I'm using them and are generally well mannered. If I ask them to heel, they will. If they want to explore- I go with them. But for the most part my dogs are not leashed. I just ran up to the farm and ranch store to buy some sweet feed and took my boy Schnitzel. He goes in with me and stays by my side the whole time. Never had to say anything. No leash. When I stop, he stops and sits. Very well mannered dog for a such a big oaf.
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Old 11-20-2015, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
5,094 posts, read 12,586,673 times
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I am watching an online Growl class taught by Ian Dunbar via the Udemy website. Its normal price is $100.00 but I have seen it frequently for $49.00 and just the other day for $10.00 so I decided to spend ten bucks and see how he handles reactive dogs. I am only part way through it but it is interesting as it is different then how I see most trainers deal with the issue. Wish I had this to use when I had Jazz.

He also talks about how puppies with their sharp milk teeth spend most of their awake time biting and that is when they have weak jaws that can cause pain but usually not injure the other dogs and how important this is in developing bite inhibition ( which is something I have always strived to make sure my dogs develop) so we need to let them play bite each other.

Yet I do remember how upset people got when Chaos was a puppy and would wrestle and bite other dogs I think people too often think of dogs as kids and expect the same behavior they do in kids.In the end they cause harm as the dog does not learn bite inhibition. Do not let other dogs bully yours but when the dogs seem to be ok with the play let it happen. He also said how adolescent dogs that are well socialized will go around and correct puppies and do it much faster and better then any human yet when Chaos stared doing this around age 2 people got too upset so I no longer let her play with puppies. She has a very inhibited bite but when puppies were getting too wild she would step in grab them then pin them down and people would freak out and act like she was going to kill the puppy as often they would cry when all she was doing was holding them down until they calmed down.

I just got home from a trip to Indonesia and Vietnam and dogs just wander leash free and because people are not policing everything they do I never saw even one dog fight, One morning there were dozens of dogs on the beach watching the fishing boats come in and they were playing and having a great time so left to their own devices dogs do not have so many issues like our dogs that have owners that do not let them be dogs. And some people wonder why we have so very many reactive dogs out there
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Old 11-20-2015, 04:44 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,987,650 times
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Originally Posted by Threerun View Post
I think the issue with leash aggression (or whatever it may be called) is more of a factor of the owners actions / dogs interactions, not necessarily a breed specific thing. The leash becomes associated with a negative response, the dog begins to hate this response, dog begins to act out accordingly. Or something..


One thing I've never, ever done- start out a pup or young dog with leash training. Ever. I worked my dogs off leash building trust/cooperation for months and months before I ever put a leash on them.. You don't break a horse by slapping a saddle on it's back and shoving a bit in its mouth and expect it to cooperate out of the gate, but somehow some folks think it is expected with a dog.
Yes, the approach of another dog (or other stimuli that causes the dog to bark/lunge) causes the owner to respond by pulling back on the leash, causing discomfort if the dog is wearing a flat collar and pain if the dog is wearing a choke/prong collar, so the dog comes to associate other dogs with pain. Rather than productively addressing the dog's initial anxiety or reactivity with counter-conditioning or desensitization, the owner has created a scenario that increases his dog's fear and reactivity.

Yep, I teach all my dogs- young, old, foster dog- to walk nicely beside me and to focus on me before I ever put a leash on them, and then they drag the leash for quite a while before I hold it. Leash on, leash off- same thing, no big deal, same behavior expected.
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Old 11-20-2015, 05:03 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,987,650 times
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Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
Yeah, there's no open free public land you can do whatever you want to on for hours in any direction.
I have to be able to run my dogs; leash walks on concrete alone just don't do it. I take them to a big field at least 2x week so they can run around off-leash like lunatics and behave like dogs.

I live in a small city though, so when I want to train in public but can't let my dog off-leash, I take them to a local park, and put them on a 50' tracking lead in an out of the way area. This way it simulates their being off-leash, and I can send them out and do distance recalls, groundwork, and other exercises without holding a leash. Maybe something like that would work for you to simulate working with him off-leash?

I don't feel badly putting a collar and leash on my dogs. Yes they are highly intelligent and sentient, but the leash keeps them safe in the city. And truly, my dogs love getting leashed up- they go bonkers because they know fun times, either training, walks, or a run are in the works. BTW there isn't any yanking, why would there be if a dog is well-trained? That said, Threerun has an ideal situation, and I would give my right kidney to have that kind of acreage.
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Old 11-20-2015, 05:32 PM
 
159 posts, read 169,105 times
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Like Threerun, my dogs are really never on a collar and leash. We live in a very rural area on 83 acres so collar and leash are not needed. When we do leave our property and they have to be leashed, they all walk nice. I've never used a prong or choke on my dogs. Just a flat buckle collar.
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Old 11-20-2015, 05:43 PM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,987,650 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashdog View Post
I am watching an online Growl class taught by Ian Dunbar via the Udemy website. Its normal price is $100.00 but I have seen it frequently for $49.00 and just the other day for $10.00 so I decided to spend ten bucks and see how he handles reactive dogs. I am only part way through it but it is interesting as it is different then how I see most trainers deal with the issue. Wish I had this to use when I had Jazz.

He also talks about how puppies with their sharp milk teeth spend most of their awake time biting and that is when they have weak jaws that can cause pain but usually not injure the other dogs and how important this is in developing bite inhibition ( which is something I have always strived to make sure my dogs develop) so we need to let them play bite each other.

Yet I do remember how upset people got when Chaos was a puppy and would wrestle and bite other dogs I think people too often think of dogs as kids and expect the same behavior they do in kids.In the end they cause harm as the dog does not learn bite inhibition. Do not let other dogs bully yours but when the dogs seem to be ok with the play let it happen. He also said how adolescent dogs that are well socialized will go around and correct puppies and do it much faster and better then any human yet when Chaos stared doing this around age 2 people got too upset so I no longer let her play with puppies. She has a very inhibited bite but when puppies were getting too wild she would step in grab them then pin them down and people would freak out and act like she was going to kill the puppy as often they would cry when all she was doing was holding them down until they calmed down.

I just got home from a trip to Indonesia and Vietnam and dogs just wander leash free and because people are not policing everything they do I never saw even one dog fight, One morning there were dozens of dogs on the beach watching the fishing boats come in and they were playing and having a great time so left to their own devices dogs do not have so many issues like our dogs that have owners that do not let them be dogs. And some people wonder why we have so very many reactive dogs out there
That sounds like an amazing trip.

Yes, totally agree that dogs are the best teachers for other dogs, and we need to allow them to do that. My last foster dog was an awesome senior dog, very sweet and goofy, but he drove my border collie bonkers because he didn't know how to interact appropriately with him. It was so sad to see because he was a very social dog and wanted to interact but he was very in-your-face with my dogs- he had zero social skills, so he always had to be kept separated. He eventually found a good home that didn't have other dogs.

Most people don't have the faintest idea what constitutes normal dog behavior though, add to that the human tendency to anthropomorphize and you have a recipe for canine disaster.
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