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Old 03-19-2017, 06:39 AM
 
2,048 posts, read 2,294,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen88 View Post
So if you don't see a perfectly trained dog then it's not a service animal. It couldn't possibly perform a function for it's disabled owner.
That is correct. Your example is an "Emotional" support or companion dog as far as I am concerned. A companion dog isn't trained to perform a disability-specific task.


Contrapagan has it right. A lot of comments in this thread show that people do not understand what makes a dog a legitimate service dog and why there should be a specific tag or paperwork. Anyone who tries to pass off their dog as a service animal should be ashamed. More businesses are becoming dog friendly. If you just cannot leave your dog home then frequent businesses that don't mind and respect those that do.


A service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Tasks performed can include, among other things, pulling a wheelchair, retrieving dropped items, alerting a person to a sound, reminding a person to take medication, or pressing an elevator button.
Emotional support animals, comfort animals, and therapy dogs are not service animals under Title II and Title III of the ADA. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not considered service animals either. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the individual’s disability. Examples of animals that fit the ADA’s definition of “service animal” because they have been specifically trained to perform a task for the person with a disability:
· Guide Dog or Seeing Eye® Dog1 is a carefully trained dog that serves as a travel tool for persons who have severe visual impairments or are blind.
· Hearing or Signal Dog is a dog that has been trained to alert a person who has a significant hearing loss or is deaf when a sound occurs, such as a knock on the door.
· Psychiatric Service Dog is a dog that has been trained to perform tasks that assist individuals with disabilities to detect the onset of psychiatric episodes and lessen their effects. Tasks performed by psychiatric service animals may include reminding the handler to take medicine, providing safety checks or room searches, or turning on lights for persons with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, interrupting self-mutilation by persons with dissociative identity disorders, and keeping disoriented individuals from danger.
· SSigDOG (sensory signal dogs or social signal dog) is a dog trained to assist a person with autism. The dog alerts the handler to distracting repetitive movements common among those with autism, allowing the person to stop the movement (e.g., hand flapping).
· Seizure Response Dog is a dog trained to assist a person with a seizure disorder. How the dog serves the person depends on the person’s needs. The dog may stand guard over the person during a seizure or the dog may go for help. A few dogs have learned to predict a seizure and warn the person in advance to sit down or move to a safe place.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:39 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,487 posts, read 62,101,894 times
Reputation: 32143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContraPagan View Post
And yours isn't????
Of course it is... and it's very simple:
all dogs should be allowed to go/do (almost) anywhere that their owners go/do.

The dogs training beyond pet level is immaterial.
All that matters, all that should matter, is their behavior/temperment...
whether the dog is wearing a labeled jacket of some sort or not.
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:45 AM
 
2,048 posts, read 2,294,324 times
Reputation: 2182
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Of course it is... and it's very simple:
all dogs should be allowed to go/do (almost) anywhere that their owners go/do.

The dogs training beyond pet level is immaterial.
All that matters, all that should matter, is their behavior/temperment...
whether the dog is wearing a labeled jacket of some sort or not.
Dogs are not people, they are animals. They do not have to be allowed in everywhere. MrRational what name, lol.

Last edited by Dltordj; 03-19-2017 at 08:12 AM..
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:15 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,724 posts, read 10,616,557 times
Reputation: 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by mapleguy View Post
MR rational.


Here in Canada, Home Depot and many other retailers ban all live animals, except those that have a certificate from the Provincial Government that identifies the animal as a service dog.

In addition , all retail stores that sell or prepare food, are animal free , again except for certified service animals. All licensed bars and clubs are also animal free.

Most public buildings have the same rules.


Maple Guy.
THIS is what I want for the US. I want special service dog tags, which require government oversight, just like we have handicap plates. I have zero objection to service dogs but pretend service dogs annoy the crap out of me. This only two questions with zero verification policy we have here is begging for abuse - and people are doing it in spades.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:35 AM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,452 posts, read 14,303,163 times
Reputation: 23172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded1 View Post
I think all dogs should be allowed everywhere. Since many don't agree with me and many establishments ban dogs from their premises, I have to pretend my dog is a service dog. No big whoop. He's providing the invaluable service of breaking down boundaries that should have never been erected in the first place.
And that attitude is precisely why many states are now moving towards laws charging people with fraud for misrepresentation.
Why would you ever consider passing yourself off as having a disability just so you can bring your house pet somewhere? I'd post my opinion of that but then I'd be in violation of the TOS here.

Finally, about 18 states have laws that make it a crime to fraudulently represent that a person has the right to be accompanied by a service animal. This may simply involve the use of a harness, vest, or orange leash that typically identifies as a dog as a service animal. Violation is usually a misdemeanor.

https://www.animallaw.info/topic/tab...ce-animal-laws
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:36 AM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
14,724 posts, read 10,616,557 times
Reputation: 19896
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Of course it is... and it's very simple:
all dogs should be allowed to go/do (almost) anywhere that their owners go/do.

The dogs training beyond pet level is immaterial.
All that matters, all that should matter, is their behavior/temperment...
whether the dog is wearing a labeled jacket of some sort or not.
Sheesh, we already have problems with parents who think their child's odious behavior is perfectly fine, now you want to add love blind pet owners to the mix? I know plenty of normally reasonable people who think Snuffie's "widdle piddles" are small so are no big deal, therefore they haven't really housebroken them, and who would be highly offended if some lowly store clerk dared to call Snuffie out for peeing in the dressing room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearded1 View Post
I think all dogs should be allowed everywhere. Since many don't agree with me and many establishments ban dogs from their premises, I have to pretend my dog is a service dog. No big whoop. He's providing the invaluable service of breaking down boundaries that should have never been erected in the first place.
You are a prime example of why there needs to be changes and service animal usage needs licensing.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Watervliet, NY
4,240 posts, read 1,564,524 times
Reputation: 7796
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
Of course it is... and it's very simple:
all dogs should be allowed to go/do (almost) anywhere that their owners go/do.

The dogs training beyond pet level is immaterial.
All that matters, all that should matter, is their behavior/temperment...
whether the dog is wearing a labeled jacket of some sort or not.
Wow... such idiocy.

You realize that behavior STEMS FROM proper training, yes? Also, that most dogs fail the temperament test for being service dogs before training even begins. That doesn't bode well for dogs meant to be mere pets when it comes to whether it is appropriate for them to be allowed into certain venues or environments.
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Old 03-19-2017, 08:54 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,487 posts, read 62,101,894 times
Reputation: 32143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ContraPagan View Post
...when it comes to whether it is appropriate for them to be allowed
into certain venues or environments.
This term... is the one that matters.

To a large extent "appropriate" is subjective but it isn't hard to identify ...
and it isn't limited, or shouldn't be, to only those dogs with some special training or attire.

These policies meant to be a boon to acceptance of the use of service animals
and which is a wonderful thing ...but when they acquire the dictatorial
and exclusive nature of the rhetoric heard here ... that good is lost.

You're ending up with the tail wagging the dog.

Last edited by MrRational; 03-19-2017 at 09:04 AM..
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:05 AM
Status: "could've~would've~should've used 'have', not 'of'" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,452 posts, read 14,303,163 times
Reputation: 23172
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
These policies meant to be a boon to acceptance of the use of service animals
and which is a wonderful thing ...but when they acquire the dictatorial
and exclusive nature of the rhetoric heard here ... that good is lost.
What are you on about? These laws aren't meant to be a boon to any sort of 'feel good' acceptance. They are meant to prevent discrimination against individuals who have a NEED for the services the animal provides.
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:25 AM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
28,487 posts, read 62,101,894 times
Reputation: 32143
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
They are meant to prevent discrimination against individuals
who have a NEED for the services the animal provides.
prevent discrimination ... boon to acceptance
potayto potahto

But regardless of what they are MEANT to accomplish...
the net effect is a discrimination against all other well behaved dogs.
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