U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-20-2017, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Lake Grove
2,753 posts, read 1,953,628 times
Reputation: 4449

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Jeez, the questions are allowed when it's not obvious it's a service animal, no need to bring up ridiculous scenarios like asking if a seeing eye dog is a service animal either
What I'm asking is if an obviously deaf person has a dog that is not "Obviously" a service dog. If it appears that the dog doesn't meet your criteria, but the person does meet it. Would you subject them to dirty looks, reinforcing your desire for the Service Dog Police?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-20-2017, 08:12 PM
 
13,366 posts, read 6,564,389 times
Reputation: 12808
A Dr. can write a note for an emotional support dog, but not a service dog. How is a human Dr. supposed to say whether the dog is properly trained?

I don't object to some sort of oversight, I just don't know what kind and how it would be implemented/funded. When I was training my service dog I was led to believe by a woman training me to train her that I'd be going for a test to get an official ID. And I was fine with that.

But there isn't one.

She just made up a laminated card with 'service dog in training' on it and gave me cards printed with the Federal Laws regarding service dogs.

IIRC it differs from state to state on Service dogs in Training as to where they are allowed to go. In mine no one was obligated to let her in.

I asked business owners/managers before entry if I may bring her in to train and I was never turned down, which was nice.

They seemed to enjoy it. Of course I went during non-rush times. Teaching her my own made-up terms. Like 'boundary' when we passed the kitchen or any other place she shouldn't even look at.

They permitted me to teach her to find entries and exits and learn to go directly under the table when I sat at it.

Anyway, I got my own laminated service dog tag which isn't illegal but it's not official either. Just makes some people feel better to see it. People who are aware of the laws don't care about the tag or Vest. They just asked the two allowable questions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2017, 09:03 PM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,312 posts, read 14,179,441 times
Reputation: 22634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen88 View Post
What I'm asking is if an obviously deaf person has a dog that is not "Obviously" a service dog. If it appears that the dog doesn't meet your criteria, but the person does meet it. Would you subject them to dirty looks, reinforcing your desire for the Service Dog Police?
Obviously you have an agenda with your ridiculous questions. Some of us do have some common sense and some training to deal with this issue.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-20-2017, 11:17 PM
 
9,149 posts, read 11,611,119 times
Reputation: 14388
For what it's worth, the current administration has indicated they will address the concerns expressed by business owners over the inability to properly vet Service Animals. Once suggestion floated was to abolish the right to access and leave it up to the business to identify if they welcome service animals or not. The over regulation of the ADA has created too much hardship for the small business person who fears a complaint even when they know the animal is a fake. By leaving it up to the individual business, if people want to be with dogs, pick an d patronize a place the supports your opinion. If you rather be dog free, look for those who won't allow service animals.

As much as it pains anyone who understands the disabled, it's really about time. The blame squarely rest on the shoulders of both those who have faked and abused the system, AND, on the legitimate disabled who were more concerned about themselves that they refuse to even consider any curbs to the abusers. So, now we have an administration that is signaling to the business community that they understand the frustration over the fakes and the horrible regulations under ADA and will step in to fix the mess.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2017, 07:33 AM
 
13,366 posts, read 6,564,389 times
Reputation: 12808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita View Post
For what it's worth, the current administration has indicated they will address the concerns expressed by business owners over the inability to properly vet Service Animals. Once suggestion floated was to abolish the right to access and leave it up to the business to identify if they welcome service animals or not. The over regulation of the ADA has created too much hardship for the small business person who fears a complaint even when they know the animal is a fake. By leaving it up to the individual business, if people want to be with dogs, pick an d patronize a place the supports your opinion. If you rather be dog free, look for those who won't allow service animals.

As much as it pains anyone who understands the disabled, it's really about time. The blame squarely rest on the shoulders of both those who have faked and abused the system, AND, on the legitimate disabled who were more concerned about themselves that they refuse to even consider any curbs to the abusers. So, now we have an administration that is signaling to the business community that they understand the frustration over the fakes and the horrible regulations under ADA and will step in to fix the mess.
The dog is medical equipment. Business owners cannot decide not to let one in.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2017, 09:08 AM
 
119 posts, read 75,350 times
Reputation: 256
To all the pet owners pretending your dogs are service dog: How would your dog respond to
Someone grabbing their harness, pull up until their front feet are off the ground and said person sticking their head in the space where the dog's would normally be
Teenagers running up behind you, smacking the dogs but and running away only to repeat the process endlessly
Kid punching the dog in the nose
Kid trying to pull the dog's tongue out while it is in his mouth
Kid sticking a fry/pencil/finger up the dog's nostril
Kid twisting dog's ears
Kid pulling hard on eyelashes
I was very protective of my service dog but all of these things happen. My service dog did not react and let me handle the situations as I saw fit. Service dogs need to be idiot proof. Even when an idiot is begging to be bitten it is not acceptable for a service dog to respond with a snap or growl.

I support eventually getting national certification but not with the current administration. I train my own service dogs because no program trains dogs for ADULTS with autism. The easiest way to regulate service dogs would be to require all service dogs to come from Assistance Dogs International accredited programs like the UK did. I prefer the Australian law where ADI programs must test and certify dogs they did not train. Currently due to liability law ADI programs in the US will not certify a dog they did not train. ADI programs cannot meet the current demand for service dogs. Many have waiting lists that are over 5 years long. There are many disabilities/combinations programs refuse to train dogs for (adults with autism, non-veterans with PTSD, blind + physical disability[some guide dog schools have tiny programs for returning graduates], etc.). I agree the rules need to be tightened but I do not want the Trump administration anywhere near the regulation. They may just decide to scrap the regulations about service dogs all together.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2017, 10:41 AM
 
Location: A Yankee in northeast TN
10,312 posts, read 14,179,441 times
Reputation: 22634
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita View Post
For what it's worth, the current administration has indicated they will address the concerns expressed by business owners over the inability to properly vet Service Animals. Once suggestion floated was to abolish the right to access and leave it up to the business to identify if they welcome service animals or not. The over regulation of the ADA has created too much hardship for the small business person who fears a complaint even when they know the animal is a fake. By leaving it up to the individual business, if people want to be with dogs, pick an d patronize a place the supports your opinion. If you rather be dog free, look for those who won't allow service animals.

As much as it pains anyone who understands the disabled, it's really about time. The blame squarely rest on the shoulders of both those who have faked and abused the system, AND, on the legitimate disabled who were more concerned about themselves that they refuse to even consider any curbs to the abusers. So, now we have an administration that is signaling to the business community that they understand the frustration over the fakes and the horrible regulations under ADA and will step in to fix the mess.
I guess it's a step in the right direction that they are even thinking about it but I don't really think it addresses the problem.
If a business owner decides no, they do not to welcome service animals they lose valued business from owners whose animals are not a problem.
If they say yes, they are put right back in the position of having to decide if the animal is legit. They open themselves to the same problem of potential liability from a poorly trained, ill behaved pet that has been brought in under the ruse of being a service animal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
2,147 posts, read 1,594,103 times
Reputation: 2365
As a former business owner (food store), I'd love to let any pets into my store, but was afraid that if later on any health inspector finds any trace of a dog, I might lose my food license...


So, we generally did not allow pets, but if a person comes with a pet and "we're service animal" statement, I did not make any issue about it As long as I am not liable for your dogs, I am only interested in your money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2017, 08:07 PM
 
Location: Lake Grove
2,753 posts, read 1,953,628 times
Reputation: 4449
Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbleT View Post
Obviously you have an agenda with your ridiculous questions. Some of us do have some common sense and some training to deal with this issue.
What is that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-21-2017, 10:30 PM
 
9,149 posts, read 11,611,119 times
Reputation: 14388
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
The dog is medical equipment. Business owners cannot decide not to let one in.
The ADA is a law that can be changed by Congress!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top