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Old 03-31-2017, 07:10 AM
 
1,568 posts, read 802,450 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowan123 View Post
. . .

How is a no-kill shelter which takes dogs from the south participating in the process? Even if they are cherry picking dogs, there are still pure bred dogs, small dogs and puppies that are dying by the thousands every year in the south. There are just that many dogs that need homes. Isn't it better to save some?
Don't forget large dogs, and mutts. Yes, there are all kinds of dogs at pounds in the south. And lots of them. And, as I've said, and you've said - most of them get put down. There are just too many - and by the time they get to the pound - many are not suitable as pets due to fear, aggression, and health issues. But many still can be.

So am I saying people shouldn't be taking what dogs they can out of this situation? Nope. But, to take advantage of that situation? - and let's face it and be honest - most of the rescue orgs I've seen ARE making a profit - at least enough to stay in business and give a few people - like the director of the org - enough income to live on - even if they aren't getting rich. It isn't all volunteers just out doing good works for the community. It is a business. Then to call yourself "no-kill" seems like a self-righteous sort of self-labeling, and it seems to me very disingenuous. They are saving dogs, sure, I get that, but they are also letting someone else do the dirty work that has to be done. They don't GET the dogs that should be put down in the first place. Somebody else takes care of that. So calling themselves "no-kill" seems to me like serving a steak and potato dinner and calling yourself vegetarian because you didn't help slaughter the beef.

On the other hand, the pounds in the south that I knew were funded by the local government. They made no profit. What they charge probably does not even cover expenses. I would guess their fees only offset their costs somewhat. There are similar "animal control officers" and some small shelters - up here in MA in every local community. But they don't have much workload - not like what I used to see in the south. If they get an adoptable animal - they often just turn it over to a local rescue org. Cuts their expenses.

Personally, I approve of what the rescue orgs are doing, it is just there is a certain self-righteousness involved sometimes that really hasn't been earned. Its a minor quibble, I suppose - I haven't quit looking at rescues when I'm looking for a dog yet. Although, this last time I did start talking directly to a couple of shelters in the midsouth - where I lived for many years. It just happened that a great pair of dogs, who fit my family situation, showed up here in MA first.
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Old 03-31-2017, 03:11 PM
 
12,408 posts, read 7,457,768 times
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Originally Posted by ngrome View Post
I've asked this question before, what happens to puppies who are not purchased from the puppy stores? Are they euthanized, resold like cars are resold to auctions, etc.?
Some pet stores just keep reducing the price of the puppy until someone finally buys it, others take their unwanted dogs to the pound. Reducing the price or dumping them at the local pound is not profitable, so if less people bought puppies from them they wouldn't buy as many puppies to sell.

And yes, some places do auction off unwanted puppies. I cannot imagine someone who buys dogs at auctions is buying them for good reasons.

Maybe some places euthanize the puppies, but is that really a business that you want to give your money to? I just could never justify buying from a pet store because they euthanize animals. Sure, my puppy would no longer be at risk for being put down, but what about the dog they buy to replace the puppy I bought?

And yes, plenty of dogs at the shelters/rescuers were once puppy mill dogs, but the issue is not the dogs themselves. The problem is supporting the industry. When you adopt, your money is going to the rescue, not the puppy mill that originally had the dog. I have a dachshund that I adopted from a rescue when he was 5 months old. Some of their dogs were puppy mill rescues, so more then likely that is where my dog was originally from. Where I'm from, Missouri, we have a huge puppy mill problem. Some of them end up being shut down for poor conditions, but the dogs that are taken from those conditions need to go somewhere. They're not just going to euthanize them because of where they came from.

Its fine if you don't want to adopt, but there are better ways to get a puppy from a breeder then to go to a pet shop and support puppy mills.
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Old 03-31-2017, 03:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ngrome View Post
Again, I see everyone's point about this. But I'm going back to just the law of supply and demand. This puppy mill industry seems to still be thriving, yes, because of people like me and my wife having made an impulse decision, as probably how many puppies are purchased. But I bought my pup not because I want to support the industry, it's because it's the pup my wife and I wanted.
I'm confused. If it was an impulse purchase, why was that one puppy the one you needed to have over one that came from a rescue or reputable breeder? It doesn't sound like you took the time to look at puppies from many different places, and liked the one puppies personality/behavior/traits the best.


Quote:
On a side note, I went to another pet store the other day, not the one we got our pup from but one of the larger chains, to pick up supplies for our new pup. I found it interesting they had a petition at the cash register for people to sign to end puppy mills supplied puppies. I find that ironic, or is it hypocrisy?
Where do you live that there are so many pet stores that sell dogs? I live in a state that is often called the puppy mill capital of the US, but I don't know of a single pet shop that actually sells puppies. I'm not talking about places like Petco or Petsmart that sell pet supplies and allow rescues to hold events, those places are completely different then a place that buys from puppy mills.

Maybe its because I've volunteer at animal shelters and have always gotten shelter dogs, so those types of places are just not something I would ever frequent. I wouldn't even buy pet supplies from a place that supported and sold puppy mill dogs. There used to be a number of these types of places around here when I was a child, but I haven't seen an actual pet shop that sold dogs in probably 10-15 years.
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Old 03-31-2017, 03:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
I'm confused. If it was an impulse purchase, why was that one puppy the one you needed to have over one that came from a rescue or reputable breeder? It doesn't sound like you took the time to look at puppies from many different places, and liked the one puppies personality/behavior/traits the best.




Where do you live that there are so many pet stores that sell dogs? I live in a state that is often called the puppy mill capital of the US, but I don't know of a single pet shop that actually sells puppies. I'm not talking about places like Petco or Petsmart that sell pet supplies and allow rescues to hold events, those places are completely different then a place that buys from puppy mills.

Maybe its because I've volunteer at animal shelters and have always gotten shelter dogs, so those types of places are just not something I would ever frequent. I wouldn't even buy pet supplies from a place that supported and sold puppy mill dogs. There used to be a number of these types of places around here when I was a child, but I haven't seen an actual pet shop that sold dogs in probably 10-15 years.

If you read my post closely here Rescue pets and OOS transportation , I did do research for a period of 2-3 months, about 1 month after we had to put our dear first one to sleep. We grieved, yet we felt we needed to fill a void that our dear one left. Then there were times we didn't want another one. Our intention was to just pet a puppy here and there, but we found one that captured our hearts. Again, I'm emphasizing our hearts. We don't stop and think, "Hey, this is a really cute pup that we want, but because it's being sold by a puppy shop, we should do our part and not buy this one and find something else at a rescue." If you want to buy a Honda, you don't go to Toyota dealership. If you want a Nike shoe that's made in a sweat shop, you don't buy Adidas. They are trivial analogies but that's the point I'm trying to make. You buy what you want with your hard-earned money because you want it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that way and many others don't think about that when they purchase products other than pets.

A colleague who responded to me in private said there's too many people trying to guilt people for decisions they made, I feel that way, but the more I think about it, the more I'm satisfied with what I did rather than compromise or settle due to some principal which I tried to say, not many people live up to. If you feel good about yourself for rescuing a life from a shelter, then fine, but raining on someone's happiness because they found a furry friend at the wrong place is not being very nice at all at an attempt to be righteous. Does that make the puppy mill industry right? Of course not. Rescues have to put animals to sleep when they are overcrowded, and again, I admire those who try their best to save a life or no-kill shelters that try to live by that credo, but as someone said, not all shelter operate in the saving grace manner either. We will just have to agree to disagree.

I looked at rescues and even talked to co-workers who were volunteers at rescues who tried to offer me potential adoptions, though they were disappointed I went the puppy store route because my wife and I wanted a puppy, they understood why I went with what I wanted, and not settled.
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Old 03-31-2017, 04:27 PM
 
12,408 posts, read 7,457,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrome View Post
I went the puppy store route because my wife and I wanted a puppy, they understood why I went with what I wanted, and not settled.
That is not really an excuse to buy from puppy mills. There are plenty of other places to get a puppy that do not support animal abuse. Most people are not trying to rain on your parade, but the truth is that you gave money to an industry that is known for animal abuse. I just don't see how someone who cares about animals can justify that and say that is what they wanted.

Maybe you have just never done any research about what puppy mills actually are, and think its this nice farm that takes care of the animals and have cute little puppies running around... But its not. A lot of them keep their animals in really horrible conditions, and they sell to pet stores because they don't want people to see the horrible conditions these dogs are being kept in.

I know there is nothing you can do now, you chose to go to a pet store and support it, but maybe next time you want a puppy, you'll put more thought into who you are actually giving your money to.
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:43 PM
 
882 posts, read 1,921,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
That is not really an excuse to buy from puppy mills. There are plenty of other places to get a puppy that do not support animal abuse. Most people are not trying to rain on your parade, but the truth is that you gave money to an industry that is known for animal abuse. I just don't see how someone who cares about animals can justify that and say that is what they wanted.

Maybe you have just never done any research about what puppy mills actually are, and think its this nice farm that takes care of the animals and have cute little puppies running around... But its not. A lot of them keep their animals in really horrible conditions, and they sell to pet stores because they don't want people to see the horrible conditions these dogs are being kept in.

I know there is nothing you can do now, you chose to go to a pet store and support it, but maybe next time you want a puppy, you'll put more thought into who you are actually giving your money to.

It's done and over with, rather than dwell on the negative I'm going to focus on the positive with raising and enjoying our new pup. I want to SINCERELY thank you to everyone for the encouragement, tips, and support in all my posts regarding our new journey with raising this little guy, despite where we may have gotten him from. He's not perfect but as I said, he's the one we wanted.
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Old 04-01-2017, 04:45 AM
 
13,364 posts, read 7,347,254 times
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Puppymills - Information about puppy mills and how to shut them down.
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:40 AM
 
449 posts, read 335,963 times
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Originally Posted by hiero2 View Post
... - and let's face it and be honest - most of the rescue orgs I've seen ARE making a profit - at least enough to stay in business and give a few people - like the director of the org - enough income to live on - even if they aren't getting rich. It isn't all volunteers just out doing good works for the community. It is a business. ...
The rescues I work with are all volunteers. Nobody gets paid for anything.
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