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Old 06-07-2017, 08:17 AM
 
882 posts, read 1,921,927 times
Reputation: 537

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
Yes, I would get the car that is better for the environment and not just one that was all shiny amd pretty. I'm not sure I understand your other analogy, are children at orphanages sold at different prices? I don't think I could say that one child is better then another, what would make one child unworthy of my love?

I guess I'm the same with dogs. I don't base my decision on what dog to buy on their coloring (please tell me your not one of those people who needs their dog to match their decor... Yes, such people do exist) and if you are getting a puppy, especially at 8 weeks its pretty hard to tell what their personality is going to be. It seems like your dog is more hyper then you thought/wanted it to be, so you should know that.
I'm giving you a viewpoint from the other side yet you answer with argumentative or condescending responses, as nomnom and bookspage mentioned. I do base my decision on what kind of dog to buy and on the coloring, that is my right, but it has nothing to do with decor. My analogy of the orphanage is just because the point I'm making is people still select a specific child they want to adopt, there is a process. One life is not better than another yet not every orphan can or will get adopted, unfortunately. If I were very rich, I would help out or adopt multiple dogs or even adopt a child whatever my heart tells me to do if I were blessed with the resources to do it. But since I'm not, I'm very selective with what I acquire in life. I went through that process, I looked at shelters first, did not find any that we liked, so we meandered in a pet store and the one we chose was the one we pictured in our minds that we were looking for. We walked away from him, had dinner, and our hearts were still tugging at us to go ahead and get him. Though I feel for the dogs who are in cages in shelters, I really do, none of them had the effect on the one we eventually settled on. We were looking for a small puppy, with the eyes and demeanor that we wanted, and we found him, not at a shelter, but at a store. Again, I searched and went through the adoption sites and there were only one or two instances where we may have found one, but they were already in the process of being adopted.

I see you are following my posts. I only posted for advice to find something to calm my dog. I do realize he's only 5 months with lots of energy, but as you can see from my posts, I'm not complaining about him, I'm asking for advice and one person said just give him more exercise. He did not answer with a snipe that you did which I highlighted above. My wife and I wanted a puppy. We've raised one previously until she passed at 17 years old, so it's been 17 years since we've experienced raising a puppy, so there are things we either don't remember about raising one or have to re-learn.

Although I try to be civil and respectful you do not reply back mutually to me or others who give a different perspective. We can agree to disagree but your responses do not warrant mine any longer.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:29 AM
 
882 posts, read 1,921,927 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookspage View Post
Guys, let's be easy on each other.

First of all, there are real regional differences in what dogs are available at shelters. Enough said there because I know certain breed discussions aren't allowed on here, but for many families with kids or whatever, much of what is available in some areas won't work.

I always say at the end of the day, I don't care where anyone got a dog as long as they take care of THAT DOG and take responsibility for it.

I will judge people on the stupid things they do to dogs, but where they got that dog is irrelevant to me because it is done now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookspage View Post
I know all about puppy mills. I adopted a discarded mama who came from one. Maybe you shouldn't pre-judge people like that

I'm poking fun at the people who think they are some sort of hero for adopting a dog. Meanwhile the dog is the same dog. Where do you think shelter dogs come from?

Take care of your dog no matter where you got it from.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookspage View Post
The big shelters know that a lot of people want puppies and they don't want certain breeds.

And in order to keep their revenue streams up, they are importing dogs into certain regions from other regions and even from overseas.

And I wonder what conditions those dogs came from...but it doesn't matter, as long as they are stamped with "RESCUE" people can feel good about themselves. It's brilliant really
Quote:
Originally Posted by PippySkiddles View Post
I think each person should do what their heart tells them.
My reason for starting this thread was just to remind folks to consider the options. The smelly shelter dog with fleas is not as appealing as the pampered pooch from a breeder but smelly dogs clean up nicely Heck get both.
I don't see the reasoning behind any arguments on this thread. Why are some folks being so defensive?

If I suggest volunteering at the animal shelters someone will want to know why I didn't suggest volunteering at a nursing home, etc

If the thread doesn't apply to you then just scroll on by...........

What I see happening is in a short time this thread will be closed due to the arguing
Quote:
Originally Posted by jencam View Post
I don't feel the car analogy works but yeah you're going to get the puppy you want. I was looking for a connection when I went to the shelter, as well as a loose breed requirement (shepherd mix).

I don't think anyone is saying if you fall for a puppy in a store to try and go replicate it at a shelter, but for people who are just starting out looking, try the shelter or a rescue first.

Heck, I couldn't go to a puppy store or breeder. I wanted a mix specifically! A GSD would be too large for me where I live. And my best dog growing up was a shepherd mix. I always hate saying that though. The other dog was such a good girl. We got her from a friend of my Mom's that had puppies. I picked her because she was the runt. I just bonded more/differently with the shepherd mix we found on the road.
I did say my analogies were bad, the only point I was trying to get across was that in my case I had to be selective for me and my wife to agree upon raising another furry life again. I was fine with a mix, but she wanted the same breed as what we had before, although finding out he's turning out quite different from our first one, which was a female, he is endearing our hearts with his own quirks.

Just for the same reason you didn't want to go to a puppy store or breeder, I respect that and all the reasons to adopt, unfortunately it's not the same for people who bought puppies, as I see in this forum they look down condescendingly on people who get their pets from stores because of all the "puppy mill" talk. Not all suppliers to stores are puppy mills, the majority may be, but I looked up the breeder of our pup and he had one recorded violation in 5 or so years. I agree 100% about how terrible the puppy mill industry, you saw how guilty I felt when I initially got the pup, but that was not strong enough to keep me from buying the pup we wanted, it's too bad I have to go out of my way to justify it to some but I'm going to quell the argument from this point on and move on. Thank you for at least being respectful and seeing both sides without being condescending.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
36,960 posts, read 45,404,903 times
Reputation: 61449
I agree, for the most part. Our dog is a rescue, from foster, and he's a nice little guy.

But I have no problem with those who want a certain type of pure bred dog, if they get it from a responsible conscientious breeder.
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Old 06-07-2017, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,183 posts, read 4,090,994 times
Reputation: 17940
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassetluv View Post
For every dog breed - and breed mix - there are archetypes that should always be considered before purchasing the animal. Yet people will often still get a dog based upon looks alone. Research, and being honest with oneself in terms of what one can - or cannot - handle, along with honestly looking at their lifestyle and home dynamics, is very important, and yet is one of the most overlooked things when someone brings home a new dog.
Absolutely! Far fewer animals would wind up in shelters and rescues if people would follow this advice. Unfortunately too many people learn this truth the hard way, and it's their animals who pay the price.

(And it's not just dogs. Talk to the horse rescue people and the parrot rescue people if you really want to hear horror stories!)
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Colorado
722 posts, read 505,617 times
Reputation: 1043
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
Yes, I would get the car that is better for the environment and not just one that was all shiny amd pretty. I'm not sure I understand your other analogy, are children at orphanages sold at different prices? I don't think I could say that one child is better then another, what would make one child unworthy of my love?

I guess I'm the same with dogs. I don't base my decision on what dog to buy on their coloring (please tell me your not one of those people who needs their dog to match their decor... Yes, such people do exist) and if you are getting a puppy, especially at 8 weeks its pretty hard to tell what their personality is going to be. It seems like your dog is more hyper then you thought/wanted it to be, so you should know that.
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the 8 week thing, especially if you go observe a litter. By 8 weeks you will clearly see which pup is dominant, which pup is submissive and those that fall within that spectrum which contributes to personality and depending on how significant the trait is, how you train. In addition, the parents and their personality can very much contribute to a pups personality and it helps to meet the parents to see what you will get. I've experienced this countless times.

My two doodles that came from a breeder, were picked specifically because of their parents and their personalities when I saw the litters. Both are in ongoing training for therapy dog work and one has gone to a special needs preschool where he helps out there.

My two shelter doodles are special in their own right but would never make good therapy dogs due to their backgrounds that have shaped their personalities. One was done by a backyard breeder (no better than puppy mills) taken at just 5 weeks from his mom and given to his first owner who then surrendered him at 6 months when that cute fur ball turned into a 50 lb energetic mass of hair. This dog still has some issues with how it deals with other dogs because it was taken too soon from its litter. Second shelter doodle was a stud dog for a puppy mill, surrendered at age 7 to a kill shelter because he lived out his "usefulness". We took him in and he is the most submissive dog ever. We love him but he doesn't have enough confidence to be a therapy animal. Both rescues are much more grateful than our bred labradoodles and so loving to us.

But people have different reasons for getting dogs. My special needs therapy dogs are hand picked for that purpose. I'm not saying a rescue could never be a therapy dog, just that I wanted a clean slate friendly working dog to do a specific activity. Now one of my rescues is an agility dog and is awesome!

But personality traits can most definitely be seen at 8 weeks. And the period between 9-12 weeks is a critically time for a pup's fear and how they deal with them as well as key time for human socializing. If you are training for something specialized (service work: epiliepsy or diabetes alert, seeing eye dog, etc) you get the pups in their basic training early and make sure they are exposed to a lot between 9-12 weeks so they are not fearful in life.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,430 posts, read 52,425,333 times
Reputation: 70403
8 weeks is plenty of time to know.

In fact, our breeder was sending us details about behavior well before then.
And they were spot on.

Getting the exact dog you want from a reputable breeder means dogs not in shelters.

I am contractually obligated to return the dog to the breeder and am not allowed to surrender her to anyone else.
I had to apply for the dog and obtain references and answer questions about experience with the breed, why I wanted it, home conditions, other pets, etc.
And, because she hand picks her owners and her owners hand pick the breed, dog, etc, and know what to expect, the whole "getting rid" of it is irrelevant anyway.

We picked this breed bc we know the likelihood of compatibility problems is basically zero.
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Old 06-07-2017, 09:40 AM
 
12,405 posts, read 7,457,768 times
Reputation: 23238
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoodlemomCoS View Post
I'm going to have to disagree with you on the 8 week thing, especially if you go observe a litter. By 8 weeks you will clearly see which pup is dominant, which pup is submissive and those that fall within that spectrum which contributes to personality and depending on how significant the trait is, how you train. In addition, the parents and their personality can very much contribute to a pups personality and it helps to meet the parents to see what you will get. I've experienced this countless times.
The person I responded to bought his dog from a pet shop. Usually those puppies are kept in a cage alone, and not with their litter mates. They also don't have the parents on site to observe their personalities. The last time I was in one of those types of stores was probably 15-20 years ago, so maybe they have changed since then, but observing a puppy alone in a small wire cage behind glass is not going to show off his personality as well as a puppy in other situations would.

And since some people want to attack me, I'm not saying this to be rude, condescending, or whatever other insults some posters have wanted to call me (not saying you have). I'm just explaining my experiences.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,190 posts, read 6,074,910 times
Reputation: 11402
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
You know you can get puppies from shelters, right? Either someone will turn in a stray that ends up being pregnant, or someone dumps a litter of puppies on their doorstep in the middle of the night. An 8 week old puppy up for adoption is not going to have any "skeletons in the closet" and I doubt they have been imprinted with any bad habits, especially when their only reason for being up for adoption is for simply being born.
I do. I'm not sure how many people count them as "adoptions" though. I mean, puppies are easy to find homes for. Barring serious health concerns I doubt any shelter has to euthanize puppies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundaydrive00 View Post
But even with a dog from a pet shop, how do you know it is not going to get hip dysplasia or know that it won't defend itself when other dogs start a fight? Even the best dog is going to fight back, I don't see that as an adoption issue.
My point is that the dog wasn't socialized as well as it should have been. No idea what it was about him, but he had a wee bit of dog aggression, and more than any dog I've ever seen, other dogs would come up to him to pick a fight. My current dog will fight back but he doesn't look for them and he doesn't attract fights. It could be something chemical in him but I chalk it up to socialization.

And, I would sooner get a shelter puppy than a pet shop puppy! The purpose of going to a breeder is that you get a known quantity, to a certain extent. You can often get health guarantees as well. Usually, good breeders will have it in the contract that if you have to get rid of the dog for any reason, you give it back to them. Do you even get papers when when you buy from a pet store? AKC papers are hardly worth the papers they're printed on in the absence of other important information.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:03 AM
 
12,405 posts, read 7,457,768 times
Reputation: 23238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrome View Post
I'm giving you a viewpoint from the other side yet you answer with argumentative or condescending response
I've read through my post several times and cannot figure out where these statements are coming from. I am having a discussion on the topic, I am not arguing with you. And while I would base my decisions on different criteria then you, I was not being condescending.

I know that people often base their dog purchase on color (although to be honest in my 15 years working in shelters, I've never heard anyone say they needed specific eyes on their dog, so I was a bit confused on that criteria.) For me, I want a dog that gets along with other dogs, people and kids. Otherwise I don't care about a specif breed, color, ear shape, etc... Just because we have different ideas of what we want in a dog, doesn't mean I think one opinion is right and the other is wrong. Obviosuly its your dog, and one you'll hopefully be caring for for the next 10-15 years, so of course it should meet your requirements.
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:09 AM
 
3,938 posts, read 2,558,815 times
Reputation: 8437
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngrome View Post
I did say my analogies were bad, the only point I was trying to get across was that in my case I had to be selective for me and my wife to agree upon raising another furry life again. I was fine with a mix, but she wanted the same breed as what we had before, although finding out he's turning out quite different from our first one, which was a female, he is endearing our hearts with his own quirks.

Just for the same reason you didn't want to go to a puppy store or breeder, I respect that and all the reasons to adopt, unfortunately it's not the same for people who bought puppies, as I see in this forum they look down condescendingly on people who get their pets from stores because of all the "puppy mill" talk. Not all suppliers to stores are puppy mills, the majority may be, but I looked up the breeder of our pup and he had one recorded violation in 5 or so years. I agree 100% about how terrible the puppy mill industry, you saw how guilty I felt when I initially got the pup, but that was not strong enough to keep me from buying the pup we wanted, it's too bad I have to go out of my way to justify it to some but I'm going to quell the argument from this point on and move on. Thank you for at least being respectful and seeing both sides without being condescending.
Doesn't mean the breeder isn't a puppy mill. The inspections are sporadic and the minimum conditions that the dogs are required to be kept in are awful. It's perfectly acceptable under the guidelines for a dog to live their entire life in a wire cage. If there was one recorded violation, I am certain that there were many many more were not caught. Your dog came from a puppy mill. There is no reputable breeder that would sell to a pet store.

While I think adoption is the best choice, I can understand buying a dog from a reputable breeder. There is literally no justification for buying a dog from a pet store and contributing to animal cruelty. Even a backyard breeder (still a horrible choice) is better than buying from a pet store.

Last edited by Rowan123; 06-07-2017 at 10:31 AM..
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