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Old 06-17-2017, 02:10 PM
 
1,950 posts, read 5,297,465 times
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Bringing this up again for advice. My dog was prescribed Denamarin. It's a small blue-coated pill and she won't take it. I tried putting it in her mouth and holding it shut but she won't swallow it, nor are either one of us up for this challenge every day for 3 weeks. I thought I would crush it, which seemed to be labor intensive for her and me, but she finally took most of it in, however, I just read on the Denamarin website that in general the pills should not be broken. Now she has diarrhea. She has only taken 2 pills.

I could try peanut butter, but they are supposed to take it on an empty stomach. Vet is not open again until Monday and this really isn't an emergency so I am inclined to stop giving the pill to her. I really don't know what to do at this point as she was not having any symptoms and was behaving like a perfectly normal puppy.

As I was typing this post, I read the website further and it says it's available in a scored chewable tablet so I not sure why they gave me the blue one. If this is the case, I'm pretty annoyed that I have to torture her when there is another option.

Any suggestions (besides waiting until Monday to see if she can have the chewable)? There is nothing on the website that says it could cause diarrhea, but I'm thinking maybe it's because I crushed it.
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Old 06-18-2017, 06:18 AM
 
963 posts, read 496,036 times
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Sorry I don't wknow what to do about the pills, I'd definitely wait until Monday to ask. Personally I would just get the ultrasound first.
The cost shouldn't be that crazy, and then you would "know", without medication, retesting, more office visits, etc... the cost might even be a wash. And then you would have the information you need to make a decision on the spay too.
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Old 06-18-2017, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Floribama
14,649 posts, read 31,104,012 times
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Try using some pill pockets, you don't need to use the whole thing, you can tear it in half to make it smaller.
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Old 06-19-2017, 05:16 PM
ZSP
 
Location: El Paso TX
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Two of my pups have had good results lowering liver values by taking Denamarin. Yes, the pills are big and I don't like to force anything down their throats. I use Wellness 95% Lamb canned food and encapsulate the pill in a small amount. They take this right off the fork. But, my dogs have been trained to take certain foods off a fork. But you could just offer this nugget and hopefully it will be enticing enough. Good luck.
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:08 PM
 
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Hi
there,

I just read your post with interest and wanted to offer some advice. I would personally opt to get your dog spayed if she is fit to be operated on, i have four female dogs of various ages and them coming into season is a problem and is stressful to be honest. When they are in season they become a bit hormonal, my male dog who we got neutered nearly a year ago goes crazy for them and won't leave them alone, and two of my female dogs(who both consider themselves to be the pack leader) have had really bad fights.

I am planning to get two of my female dogs spayed in the near future, as apart from the reasons listed above, did you know that if a female dog is not spayed, they can get something called pyometra of the womb, which i think is the womb rupturing and this is actually a medical emergency and the dog could die from this.

Also, when they have a season, it's a bit like a woman having a cycle in as much as they do bleed, and ofcourse that means you have mess to deal with.

I hope the above helps you with your decision.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:52 PM
 
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I'm not questioning if she should be spayed, but she needs to be able to handle the anesthesia and with high acid biles, there is a risk.

I had her retested and they were still high. The vet referred us to a specialist to have the ultrasound, however, I have read that sometimes it's impossible to detect a liver shunt.

I spoke to our breeder and she said she has not had any puppies with liver shunts, but recognizes that of course it could be possible. She also said to maybe lay off the Nuvet wafers we have been giving her for a few months as maybe my puppy isn't processing them well. However, time is ticking as far as the spaying as she is 9 months old.

She recommended a vet and I also have a recommendation for another vet, but I'm still not sure what to do as in, when to get retested. We tried everything with the pills, this doggie just won't go for it and the vet just said to stop trying....really no help at all. The vet never mentioned pill pockets.
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Old 07-19-2017, 01:29 AM
 
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*If* your dog has a liver shunt you need to be watching everything she eats, including treats, pill pockets, etc. If she were mine, I would be erring on the side of caution and treating her as if she does have a liver shunt until you can get a more definitive answer. Maltese are 20x more likely to have a liver shunt than other breeds. You may want to email University of Tennessee small animal clinic for recommendations. Karen Tobias, who developed the surgery for liver shunts is with U of T.

Regarding the Denamarin, it is supposed to be given on an empty stomach and, iirc, should be given plain without treats one hour (or half hour) before meal.

https://vetmed.tennessee.edu/vmc/Sma...D-Brochure.pdf

Maltese Liver Shunts

Dr. Dodds Updated Liver Diet - Maltese Dogs Forum : Spoiled Maltese Forums

The last link includes a recipe by Dr. Dodds for liver shunt dogs. If your finances permit, you may want to visit a well qualified holistic vet, taking all of her test results.
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Old 08-24-2017, 01:22 PM
 
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Update: First, I looked at pill pockets and they have some gross stuff in them, so I won't ever use them.

The first vet redid the acid biles test and said it came back higher than before. They referred me to a specialist for an ultrasound which would have taken me an hour to get to each way. I felt if my dog needed further treatment, I wanted to be closer to home.

Got a reference for a second vet who is local. They did an x-ray and ultrasound. The liver was a perfectly normal size and there were no shunts found. The vet was confident we could do the spaying, which we did on my puppy's 10 month birthday.

She did very well and recovered quickly. She had no issues waking up for anesthesia. I'm grateful she did not go into heat before that.

We will probably do the acid biles test again in a few months to see if they are still high, however, she has never exhibited any behavior that would indicate there are any liver issues, so we shall see.
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Old 08-24-2017, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,116 posts, read 4,067,398 times
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Glad to hear the spay surgery went well. As for the liver function: watchful waiting does sound like the best approach.
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:27 PM
 
1,554 posts, read 794,651 times
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wow. I am amazed.

Ok. First - pills. BASIC pill procedure for dogs! Put the pill in a bit of ground beef or something. A small bit - just enough to cover the pill. Most times the dog will swallow the whole thing. It the dog does not?
Then you do the quick "put the pill down the dog's throat" routine. You thrust the pill past the tongue, and THEN hold the snout shut until the dog swallows. This is not a simple thing for one who is inexperienced. But once one has done it - it is simple. That is the two basics of pill technique.

Next, liver panel test. One HAS to fast prior to liver panel tests, dog or human. If you don't, they are not accurate.

Next, periods. A *****, a female dog, has, at most, two periods per year. If the dog is impregnated, then there will be only one period per year.

Next - the original question. To spay or wait. To not spay is like no consequence. So no worries. Don't spay. Get the dog's health in the right place, and worry about the spay later.
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