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Old 07-27-2017, 01:06 PM
 
3,944 posts, read 2,561,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie1 View Post
The Pap Rescues wanted TWICE what the Breeders wanted... then they put you thru the wringer just at the last min pull the rug out from under you! I will stick with breeders Most are Honest... After all their rep is on the line

I disagree completely MOST breeders are not honest. They don't care about their reputation. They care only about the money and achieving maximum profit. Some breeders are honest and some care about the breed and who they sell their dogs to but MOST do not. Backyard breeders will be cheaper than just about anyone because they have very low expenses (don't care about the health of their dogs), sell to anyone who has the money and breed the &^%$ out of them until they are too old to reproduce.
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Old 07-27-2017, 01:09 PM
 
4,508 posts, read 2,109,062 times
Reputation: 9518
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debby-D View Post
We bought Bella from a breeder who gave us her AKC papers - We paid $900 for her. I wanted a purebred Pom that I could breed and have puppies.
Now 7 months later, she is 14 pounds. We did her DNA test. She is 100% Pomeranian on her mom's side. And on dad's side, his grandmother was bred with a dog that had Pom and Bichon Frieze, Keeshond, and other mixed. The seller gave us AKC papers to fill out and register her. We were guaranteed that she would get to be 7 to 9 pounds max. (not sure how anyone can guarantee anything like size when they really don't know). The DNA results show that Bella has 12.5% Bichon and 12.5% mixed - the Keeshond, Chihuahua, other. For health reasons - she should be very healthy and not have some of the different disease's that Pom's have the tendency to get. Her coat is coming in gorgeous. And she has stunning colors. But a long "Bichon Frieze" body. Her fur is more of that of the Keeshond. I wanted to breed her with other Pom's and raise Pom babies. I don't want to take her to court as I love this dog. I just don't like it that we have gotten taken advantage of - and I don't want anyone else to get taken by this unscrupulous breeder.
Report her to the AKC. They don't take that crap lightly.


www.akc.org.
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Maine
1,241 posts, read 898,555 times
Reputation: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsBellaMia View Post
Report her to the AKC. They don't take that crap lightly.


www.akc.org.
Why- because her dog did not come out to " standard"...
Was the pedigree checked for a good line- champion lines that carry the standard of the breed- health tested etc... Too many variables here- and as I said on a earlier post- Those DNA tests are flat out laughable in the accuracy department....
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:50 AM
 
124 posts, read 66,493 times
Reputation: 227
Ok......what can I say? Stop! Think! Enjoy your baby. Don't even think
about putting her thru that. Educate yourself.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:33 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 8,070,831 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debby-D View Post
We bought Bella from a breeder who gave us her AKC papers - We paid $900 for her. I wanted a purebred Pom that I could breed and have puppies.
WHY! You don't appear to be a knowledgeable Pom person, but an aspiring byb.

Quote:
Now 7 months later, she is 14 pounds. We did her DNA test. She is 100% Pomeranian on her mom's side. And on dad's side, his grandmother was bred with a dog that had Pom and Bichon Frieze, Keeshond, and other mixed.
Why did you do her DNA test? Did you suspect there is a mix in her pedigree?

DNA test are far from being 100% accurate, so it really doesn't prove anything. I've seen pure bred Pits with various results like a single dog stating it is a mix of multiple breeds such as pointer, Viszla, Glen of Imaal terrier and others. I've seen mixes who had known pedigrees come back with breeds other than what they actually were.


Quote:
The seller gave us AKC papers to fill out and register her. We were guaranteed that she would get to be 7 to 9 pounds max. (not sure how anyone can guarantee anything like size when they really don't know).
Right, like you said that can't slays be guaranteed. Especially in a breed with various sizes.

Quote:
The DNA results show that Bella has 12.5% Bichon and 12.5% mixed - the Keeshond, Chihuahua, other. For health reasons - she should be very healthy and not have some of the different disease's that Pom's have the tendency to get. Her coat is coming in gorgeous. And she has stunning colors. But a long "Bichon Frieze" body. Her fur is more of that of the Keeshond.
How should she be very healthy. Your post makes absolutely no sense, even if the results were right. You are basically saying that according to DNA test your dog's mother is a Pom and father is from a parent who is a Pom and a parent who's a mix of toy breeds. So how the hell does she not have risk for recessive diseases that are typically found in the Pom breed, when she has Pom on both sides of her pedigree?! I'm certain there are probably some common diseases between Poms and the other toy breeds too. Maybe Luxating Patella for instance?

Sounds more like you got a byb Pom rather than one bred to standards and you are seeing what you want. Heck even in a show bred dog that meets standards within a breed you cam possibly pick out traits of "other breeds" since breeds share traits and genes.

Quote:
I wanted to breed her with other Pom's and raise Pom babies. I don't want to take her to court as I love this dog. I just don't like it that we have gotten taken advantage of - and I don't want anyone else to get taken by this unscrupulous breeder.
Break the cycle. Spay your byb pet dog and enjoy her as a pet. How do you know that the breeder knew the dog was mixed, if it really even is?
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Old 07-28-2017, 06:34 PM
 
1,177 posts, read 8,070,831 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
This is why people who love dogs do not breed them—ever. It's the same for every breed. Here are just a few of the rescue groups. There are many, many more for just this one breed. NEVER BUY A DOG. Find your new friend at a rescue group, humane society, pound, or just off he street.

Second Chance Poms, Inc.

― Pomeranian Rescue ― ANIMALS FOR ADOPTION ― RescueMe.Org

Home Page OFFICIAL SITE Southern California Pomeranian Rescue

Welcome

Pom To The Rescue
Huh? Of course some people who love dogs choose to breed. They simply love a breed and have a passion for it so they focus on that specific breed. The problem is that there are more byb than good breeders and there are a lot of commercial breeders (puppy mills) breeding thousands of dogs (and I'm saying 1000s from a single mill per year). That's why there are so many problems. If only those who actually loved dogs were breeding things would be a lot different, unfortunately many breeders don't love dogs and that's why these problems arise. When people don't care about dogs and see them as a commodity they will use a dog to turn a profit at the animals expense.

And no it's not a problem in every breed. Some breeds are rarely seen in rescues or shelters. Some rare breeds (in US from other countries) even have low numbers in their home land.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie1 View Post
The Pap Rescues wanted TWICE what the Breeders wanted... then they put you thru the wringer just at the last min pull the rug out from under you! I will stick with breeders Most are Honest... After all their rep is on the line
In the case of the OP they paid $900 for a byb Pom. I highly doubt a rescue would want $1,800 to adopt a Pom. Not all rescues are reputable or have the animals best interest at heart, but many do, so it's a good way to find a pet. The OP could have went to rescue and paid less, but then they couldn't go on their byb venture to add to the rescue dog problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
Hello Mr. Everything is Black and White ...

Not all breeders sell to anyone. Some are very picky about who they sell to.
Exactly. I breed dogs and haven't even sold a puppy in like 10 years. There are some breeders out there that range from clueless pet owners to profit driven bybs/mills, that doesn't mean no responsible breeders exist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Some things are simply right or wrong. Breeders are well aware that millions of dog die annually in pounds and shelters, but they don't care. Reputable breeder is an oxymoron.
That's a big and wrong assumption. Bybs don't care, the kind breeding their female regardless of health issues, temperament problems, no concern what type of home the pups goes to, some barely care for their dog and litter and get rid of them ASAP, even as young as 4 weeks, dumb the female is she can no longer breed or has a conplication.
There are still breeders who care about not only their dogs, but other dogs in shelters/rescues. Now caring and taking responsibility for something they don't contribute two is different. Even though there are breeders who also foster and donate money and time to rescue, as well as educate people about the problems with supporting byb or buying a dog from a pet shop. Many are promoting shelter and rescue, I'm willing to bet some breeders have done more for dogs in need than some of the members of online forums saying "breeders don't care".
And no I'm not saying more than everyone online who says things like that, but I've sure seen it in person.
One of my friends who flew off the handle about breeding and how breeding a litter is going to create 100s of 1000s of unwanted dogs doesn't even own a dog, has no desire to own one, doesn't donate money, food, toys, beds, ect to rescues or shelters, doesn't volunteer at shelters, doesn't provide any training or aid to rescues, does nothing proactive to better the dogs lives or chances of adoption. They might shout against breeding, but they don't do anything for these unwanted dogs, like some breeders do. How much does she really love dogs?
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Old 07-28-2017, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Cody, WY
9,540 posts, read 10,850,513 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APBT_Samara View Post

I breed dogs...

There are still breeders who care about not only their dogs, but other dogs in shelters/rescues. Now caring and taking responsibility for something they don't contribute two is different. Even though there are breeders who also foster and donate money and time to rescue, as well as educate people about the problems with supporting byb or buying a dog from a pet shop. Many are promoting shelter and rescue, I'm willing to bet some breeders have done more for dogs in need than some of the members of online forums saying "breeders don't care".
And no I'm not saying more than everyone online who says things like that, but I've sure seen it in person.
One of my friends who flew off the handle about breeding and how breeding a litter is going to create 100s of 1000s of unwanted dogs doesn't even own a dog, has no desire to own one, doesn't donate money, food, toys, beds, ect to rescues or shelters, doesn't volunteer at shelters, doesn't provide any training or aid to rescues, does nothing proactive to better the dogs lives or chances of adoption. They might shout against breeding, but they don't do anything for these unwanted dogs, like some breeders do. How much does she really love dogs?
Every puppy from a breeder means one less spot for a pound dog. Your attack on those who oppose breeding is vile. Millions of us have spent years rescuing unwanted dogs and other pets as well as providing loving permanent homes for them. We can't save them all at once so we do it one at a time.

Any breeder who cares stops being a breeder and rescues dogs. Sadly, I've only met two.
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:05 AM
 
1,177 posts, read 8,070,831 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming View Post
Every puppy from a breeder means one less spot for a pound dog.
Hardly true. If I couldn't get a dog from a breeder/breed dogs, then I'd likely have a dog. Being that I love dogs and don't see myself without one, but that's it a single dog. Continuing a bloodline, preserving a breed and being a serious dog person is a lot different than having a pet. Though I'd likely do whatever competitions with my pet dog that they enjoyed and were good at. I'd not be keeping multiple dogs, so my intentionally bred dogs are not replacing those dogs sitting in pound taking a spot from them. I'm not sure thinking this way either. You really believe the imported police dog is taking spot from pound dog? The working LGD? You automatically assume that if someone has a dog they would be fine with any dog.

I'd probably not even go to pound. Maybe get a pup from oops litter, though ideally everyone would s/n their pets, especially if breeders are not even breeding. I would probably look for private rehome also, though people lie there is a off chance it could be a dog from someone I know too (I got a great dog this way once and privately fostered another this way) or I'd have to trust the person as best as possible. (Either of these 2 options could keep the dogs from ending up in pounds) I'm extremely picky where my dogs come from, as of now I can go to breeder so that's not hard, but if I couldn't is still be very picky!


Quote:
Your attack on those who oppose breeding is vile. Millions of us have spent years rescuing unwanted dogs and other pets as well as providing loving permanent homes for them. We can't save them all at once so we do it one at a time.
I did quote you yes...attack no. I'm sorry if you feel attacked. I did not attack anyone or act in a vile manner. I could say attacking good breeders who truly love dogs is vile, but I'm not going to be over dramatic. It's one thing to feel contempt for bad breeders (the ones creating the problem), it's another to act as if all breeders don't care about dogs and only money, especially with how costly breeding is. It can be costly to even care for a pet dog without the added breeding related expenses.

Some of those millions of people are dog breeders SMH. While there are probably millions of people who help dogs in need one way or another, it's doubtful that many actually oppose all breeding. Most I know are only against bad breeding. The person I spoke of (who's against breeding) hasn't owned a dog in their adult life and done 0 for dogs in need!!!!! Cleary you don't fit in that category.

People who love dog don't breed is a little harsh, but everyone is welcome to their opinion. Though I find it a little distorted that some who love dogs are okay with breeds dying out or being wrecked, because good breeders stop breeding. I love dogs and do care that due to irresponsible breeders/owners many dogs are without a forever home, but attacking good breeders won't alleviate the issue. As well I certainly don't want to see breeds or the mass majority of dogs gone, for the fact that I do love them and they are a unique sub species when it comes to incredible bonds and closeness they have for humans.

Quote:
Any breeder who cares stops being a breeder and rescues dogs. Sadly, I've only met two.
That's your opinion, I respect that. Though I don't agree because it's not a black and white issue, as some things with dogs can be. Put byb/mill put of business (I know not going to happen) and you would see practically empty shelters. Even the one off oops litter wouldn't lead to dogs being PTS because of lack of homes.

I'm not at all trying to be vile or make this an attack. I'm sure we won't change each other's mind, but I have tried to be respectful.
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Old 07-30-2017, 04:34 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
12,390 posts, read 31,357,488 times
Reputation: 8082
I bred Shelties & Rescued Rotties!
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Old 07-31-2017, 01:05 PM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,352 posts, read 16,776,804 times
Reputation: 11458
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop View Post
Debby-D....
Be prepared for the attacks on wanting to breed your dogs. Too many people on this site like to tell others what to do, cause they don't like it!
We don't like it because we are SICK TO DEATH of seeing poorly bred, byb or puppy mill dogs thrown away like trash when the novelty wears off, or behavior issues surface, or expensive, or even not so expensive, health issues arise, or.... or ..... or ..... there are a thousand reasons.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaHillbilly View Post
Hello Mr. Everything is Black and White ...

Not all breeders sell to anyone. Some are very picky about who they sell to.

those breeders are VERY far and few between...... most just look at their very special dogs and see dollar signs flying out of the poor thing's uterus or testicles.....
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