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Old 08-04-2017, 10:05 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
9,355 posts, read 16,827,643 times
Reputation: 11463

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
I never said that they should by from a backyard breeder or puppy mill. But in almost every case a puppy purchased from a responsible breeder will have FAR fewer behavior issues than an adolescent or grown dog from a shelter.

What "circle" do I run in where I can safely make that statement? The "circle" that counts responsible breeders AND devoted rescuers as part of that circle. After 25+ years in both circles, most of them on the front lines, I know the reality.

Stan4, and apparently you, are in the vast minority of people buying purebreds from breeders. You have the knowledge, sense and patience to go about the process in the only way that ensures you get exactly what you want...... and even then, there are no absolute guarantees.....

Sadly, most people do not..... they decide they want whatever breed puppy they think is cute and rush right out and buy it from a pet store, or the internet, or from Craig's List or newspaper ad, the flea market or wherever..... those are the dogs that I was talking about..... the puppies that are sold to the first person that shows up with the right amount of cash in hand..... no application, no questions, no checking, no contract, no requirement for spay or neuter, no taking the puppy or dog back if for any reason, it does not work out.....

I just read an article yesterday or the day before that sled dog rescues (Huskies, Malamutes, etc.), are seeing a HUGE upsurge in young adult dogs being surrendered..... people have been seeing these types of dogs on Game of Thrones and in the Twilight movies and think they look SUPER cool and so must have one for themselves.... with no idea of what is actually involved in properly raising and caring for them..... but do the BYBs care?? heck, no!!

saw the same thing with Dalmations when 101 Dalmations movie came out and with Jack Russel Terriers when Frasier was a popular TV show.... Both of those breeds are high energy and the JRTs are very intelligent and stubborn..... neither is a good choice for a novice dog owner.....

and oh yeah.... yellow labs became EXTREMELY popular when the Marley and Me book and movie were in the public eye.....

THIS is how most people buying purebreds make their decision..... based on pop culture.....

Last edited by latetotheparty; 08-04-2017 at 10:15 AM..
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:09 AM
 
15,733 posts, read 9,244,311 times
Reputation: 14212
Quote:
Originally Posted by APBT_Samara View Post
This would help greatly. Hating breeders and deeming them all bad isn't going to stop the 100 of 1000s of dogs being born that are going to end up in shelters or bred by their new owners (bybs) who's offspring will end up in shelters.

Lobby for change and vote when the laws come in. It's an uphill battle as many mills are licensed and a profitable business. However, laws have been passed that limit breeding and put a big dent into mills (or even put them out of business). Some times it takes years to get a law to pass.

Rescuing dogs helps and helps those individual dogs, but it doesn't stem the influx that needs to be stopped at the source. Byb/mills and the careless owners who buy from them.
I'd actually have enough money to fund every rescue in the nation if I had a dollar for every time I heard "I know I shouldn't buy from a pet store/backyard breeder/craigslist, but I felt so sorry for the puppy I decided to rescue them."

Bad breeders stay in business because stupid people insist on buying from them.
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Old 08-05-2017, 09:16 AM
 
1,177 posts, read 8,080,508 times
Reputation: 905
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
I'd actually have enough money to fund every rescue in the nation if I had a dollar for every time I heard "I know I shouldn't buy from a pet store/backyard breeder/craigslist, but I felt so sorry for the puppy I decided to rescue them."

Bad breeders stay in business because stupid people insist on buying from them.
Oh I know. It irks me because some clearly know better but say I couldn't leave him. Example - pup was crammed in a tiny cage with the rest of the litter, skinny and covered in poop, the vet said he was full of worms. I had to rescue him.... Um okay what about the rest of the litter that was left behind? What about the mom whos probably in worse condition after pregnancy and taking care of a litter while not being cared for? Simple solution call your local animal control or welfare/shelter. Not buy a sickly pup from them so they will keep breeding the mom to death. Byb and mills are not illegal, but if the animals are neglected that is, let them actually be rescued and put the them out of business by reporting it.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:00 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,129,272 times
Reputation: 10910
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
Stan4, and apparently you, are in the vast minority of people buying purebreds from breeders. You have the knowledge, sense and patience to go about the process in the only way that ensures you get exactly what you want...... and even then, there are no absolute guarantees.....

Sadly, most people do not..... they decide they want whatever breed puppy they think is cute and rush right out and buy it from a pet store, or the internet, or from Craig's List or newspaper ad, the flea market or wherever..... those are the dogs that I was talking about..... the puppies that are sold to the first person that shows up with the right amount of cash in hand..... no application, no questions, no checking, no contract, no requirement for spay or neuter, no taking the puppy or dog back if for any reason, it does not work out.....

I just read an article yesterday or the day before that sled dog rescues (Huskies, Malamutes, etc.), are seeing a HUGE upsurge in young adult dogs being surrendered..... people have been seeing these types of dogs on Game of Thrones and in the Twilight movies and think they look SUPER cool and so must have one for themselves.... with no idea of what is actually involved in properly raising and caring for them..... but do the BYBs care?? heck, no!!

saw the same thing with Dalmations when 101 Dalmations movie came out and with Jack Russel Terriers when Frasier was a popular TV show.... Both of those breeds are high energy and the JRTs are very intelligent and stubborn..... neither is a good choice for a novice dog owner.....

and oh yeah.... yellow labs became EXTREMELY popular when the Marley and Me book and movie were in the public eye.....

THIS is how most people buying purebreds make their decision..... based on pop culture.....
I know this probably won't fly in the hyper individualistic US, but I've long believed that in addition to licensing dogs, dog owners should also be licensed prior to owning. Including coursework and tests.
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Old 08-07-2017, 01:39 PM
 
4,003 posts, read 2,602,979 times
Reputation: 8651
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
I just read an article yesterday or the day before that sled dog rescues (Huskies, Malamutes, etc.), are seeing a HUGE upsurge in young adult dogs being surrendered..... people have been seeing these types of dogs on Game of Thrones and in the Twilight movies and think they look SUPER cool and so must have one for themselves.... with no idea of what is actually involved in properly raising and caring for them..... but do the BYBs care?? heck, no!!
Wow, that explains (to some extent anyway) the explosion in huskies and malamutes looking for homes/resuce. I see a ton of these being networked on Facebook. Of course all the rescues are maxed out and in many places they're a "restricted breed".
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:19 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
10,279 posts, read 4,856,239 times
Reputation: 21666
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop View Post
Debby-D....
Be prepared for the attacks on wanting to breed your dogs. Too many people on this site like to tell others what to do, cause they don't like it!
Because some of us love animals and feel there are enough dogs languishing in shelters as it is without someone just looking to make a profit off of breeding mixed parentage dogs! There is absolutely no reason for someone to do this other than profit. The only people who should be breeding dogs are responsible breeders with purebred dogs without disqualifying health or show issues. There are enough unwanted dogs in the shelter right now for anybody to be breeding a mutt, which apparently the OP has.


OP - did you ask to see the parents of this Pomeranian or did you find it off the internet or some backyard breeder?


And I AM very passionate about this issue because I adopted a Chihuahua in 2006 that was a former puppy mill breeder. She was bred and then dumped at the local kill shelter when she was of no further use to the breeder. She was never a normal dog, her teeth were rotted out, her toes were deformed from living in a cage the first 6 years of her life and she was petrified of everything and remained that way till her death 10 years after I adopted her.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:26 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
10,279 posts, read 4,856,239 times
Reputation: 21666
[quote=ringwise;48984199]Good breeders care. That's why good breeders always take any dog they've bred back.

And lest you think that those millions of dogs dying in pounds and shelters are strictly because of over-breeding, think again. Most dogs in shelters are not puppies. Rather, they are turned in because of behavior issues, lack of time on the part of their owner, the owner moved to a place that doesn't allow pets, etc.

Good breeders sell good dogs. Good breeders screen their puppy buyers. Good breeders test their dogs for medical conditions that affect their breed. Good breeders don't let their puppies go to the pound.

And if you really think that dogs dying in pounds would cease if breeders stopped breeding purebred dogs, you are mistaken.[/quote]


Dogs dying in pounds will never cease until people start neutering their pets and stop allowing them to breed indiscriminately. I was just at the no-kill shelter today looking for a dog. Not one dog out of the probably 50-75 was a purebred. You could tell some were mixed with Chihuahua or Terrier but there was not one "show quality" dog there. And the local kill shelter is even worse; 90% of every dog in there is a Pit-bull mix, not one purebred in there. So yes, if only responsible breeders were allowed to breed their dogs, eventually there would not be so many dogs at shelters.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:32 PM
 
Location: SW Florida
10,279 posts, read 4,856,239 times
Reputation: 21666
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Garbage. Those people buying puppies would not adopt from a shelter anyway. Those pound dogs come with loads of baggage and behavior issues. And when someone wants a puppy, a grown dog just won't do.

Maggie, my Chihuahua came from the local kill shelter. She was my 8th Chihuahua and actually the best out of all of them. She was not your typical yappy ankle biter. She loved everybody, even kids. My first Chihuahua was purchased from a pet store in 1999 before I knew better. She wasn't even as wonderful as my Maggie. She died last May at 11 years old.
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Maine
1,241 posts, read 904,843 times
Reputation: 947
What was never answered was the original question- did this pup, at the price you paid, come from a good breeder to begin with... One that health tests- with shown proven standard dogs, is a member of the Breed club- ie a code of ethics etc ?????
And the DNA test- is laughable- you can take known for massive generations dogs and test them- and they will not come out for what they are....
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:08 PM
 
Location: Texas
43,545 posts, read 52,626,787 times
Reputation: 70772
Quote:
Originally Posted by latetotheparty View Post
Stan4, and apparently you, are in the vast minority of people buying purebreds from breeders. You have the knowledge, sense and patience to go about the process in the only way that ensures you get exactly what you want...... and even then, there are no absolute guarantees.....

Sadly, most people do not..... they decide they want whatever breed puppy they think is cute and rush right out and buy it from a pet store, or the internet, or from Craig's List or newspaper ad, the flea market or wherever..... those are the dogs that I was talking about..... the puppies that are sold to the first person that shows up with the right amount of cash in hand..... no application, no questions, no checking, no contract, no requirement for spay or neuter, no taking the puppy or dog back if for any reason, it does not work

THIS is how most people buying purebreds make their decision..... based on pop culture.....

Then we're back at the point that the problem is the people. The consumer. The self-absorbed a-holes that make having a dog all about them and don't think about impact or the dog's welfare/happiness.

Curtailing all breeding will not make these people not a-holes. It will not stop them from abusing animals.

Frankly, I'm not opposed to having some sort of license or training before you're allowed to get a dog or kid. The stakes are too high for the ones who suffer.
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