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Old 07-26-2017, 03:26 PM
 
Location: West Hills
1 posts, read 734 times
Reputation: 10

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We bought Bella from a breeder who gave us her AKC papers - We paid $900 for her. I wanted a purebred Pom that I could breed and have puppies.
Now 7 months later, she is 14 pounds. We did her DNA test. She is 100% Pomeranian on her mom's side. And on dad's side, his grandmother was bred with a dog that had Pom and Bichon Frieze, Keeshond, and other mixed. The seller gave us AKC papers to fill out and register her. We were guaranteed that she would get to be 7 to 9 pounds max. (not sure how anyone can guarantee anything like size when they really don't know). The DNA results show that Bella has 12.5% Bichon and 12.5% mixed - the Keeshond, Chihuahua, other. For health reasons - she should be very healthy and not have some of the different disease's that Pom's have the tendency to get. Her coat is coming in gorgeous. And she has stunning colors. But a long "Bichon Frieze" body. Her fur is more of that of the Keeshond. I wanted to breed her with other Pom's and raise Pom babies. I don't want to take her to court as I love this dog. I just don't like it that we have gotten taken advantage of - and I don't want anyone else to get taken by this unscrupulous breeder.
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:30 PM
 
4,058 posts, read 2,626,853 times
Reputation: 8794
Why do you want to breed your dog?
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Old 07-26-2017, 03:42 PM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,716 posts, read 28,770,848 times
Reputation: 43850
DNA to find out the breed is no more than a parlor game and doesn't mean that much. If you got AKC papers with her, you can report to the AKC that she is not purebred. They will require you to do a parentage DNA, which you will pay for, and they will require a parentage DNA of both the parents, which the breeder will be required to do and pay for. If the papers are falsified, the breeder will lose his AKC privileges.

The size doesn't mean too much since the "Pomeranian" comes in 3 different sizes and poorly bred dogs often do not comply with the breed standard. Besides the Pomeranian, there are the Mittel and Klein German Spitz, three sizes of the same breed of dog.

I guess you didn't know, but the dead giveaway is that no responsible breeder of purebred dogs would have every sold a puppy to any sort of amateur dog owner who had plans to breed her without even seeing her grown and health tested. So, if you buy again, you know that people like the one who sold your dog to you are puppy mills or unscrupulous backyard breeders.

Oh wait, you have plans to be a backyard breeder yourself, without a clue as to what health testing should be done. If you knew anything about health testing or dog breeding you wouldn't be saying the things you are saying.
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Illinois
122 posts, read 63,150 times
Reputation: 306
Sigh – I’ve spent most of this afternoon on the AKC website looking up the latest AKC Rally Regulations effective November 1 for an upcoming class that I am going to teach. This is as good excuse as any for a break as I’m going cross-eyed about now.

In less than 5 minutes, I found this:

American Pomeranian Club

This is the parent breed club that the AKC recognizes and will be listed on the AKC website (akc.org). The breed club owns the breed standard and is your first stop for information.

Under the Health tab:

The Canine Health Information Center, also known as CHIC, is a centralized canine health database jointly sponsored by the AKC/Canine Health Foundation (AKC/CHF) and the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA. The CHIC, working with participating parent clubs, provides a resource for breeders and owners of purebred dogs to research and maintain information on the health issues prevalent in specific breeds.

Pomeranians are a CHIC breed with the following health screens recommended:

• Eye Clearance (CERF Evaluation required for CHIC)
• Congenital Cardiac Database (OFA Evaluation required for CHIC - Recommend followup evaluation between 3 and 5 years of age)
• Patellar Luxation (OFA Evaluation required for CHIC)
• Hip Dysplasia (Optional for CHIC) – (OFA Evaluation)
• Legg-Calve-Perthes (Optional for CHIC) – (OFA Evaluation)
• Autoimmune thyroiditis (Optional for CHIC) – (OFA evaluation from an approved laboratory - Recommend testing at ages 1, 3, and 6 Years of Age.)

Your “breeder” should have provided you with a contract (usually a co-own), CHIC number for both parents, and copies of all health testing (or instructions on how you can look it all up yourself).

Canine Health Information Center

Now, back to what I was originally doing …….
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Old 07-26-2017, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Idaho
2,512 posts, read 2,281,691 times
Reputation: 5256
Debby-D....
Be prepared for the attacks on wanting to breed your dogs. Too many people on this site like to tell others what to do, cause they don't like it!
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Old 07-26-2017, 09:53 PM
 
15,149 posts, read 19,775,478 times
Reputation: 21345
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
...no responsible breeder of purebred dogs would have every sold a puppy to any sort of amateur dog owner who had plans to breed her without even seeing her grown and health tested...
Oh wait, you have plans to be a backyard breeder yourself, without a clue as to what health testing should be done. If you knew anything about health testing or dog breeding you wouldn't be saying the things you are saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop View Post
Debby-D....
Be prepared for the attacks on wanting to breed your dogs. Too many people on this site like to tell others what to do, cause they don't like it!

oregonwoodsmoke is completely correct in everything he/she said and it was probably said in a gentler way than most would have said it.

And, obviously, f5fstop hasnt ever volunteered for any dog rescue group and has never worked in a kill-shelter where dogs are gassed every day because of irresponsible backyard breeders (yes, I know that's a redundancy) selling puppies to naive potential backyard breeders.
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:56 AM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,324 posts, read 4,169,633 times
Reputation: 18377
OP, those breed DNA tests aren't very reliable, because there's a huge amount of genetic overlap between the various dog breeds. The test certainly doesn't conclusively prove that your dog isn't purebred. But you can follow oregonwoodsmoke's advice and report the situation to the AKC, which I'd encourage you to do.

That said, even if your b**ch is purebred, she's pet quality and there's no good reason to breed her.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:22 AM
 
4,058 posts, read 2,626,853 times
Reputation: 8794
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop View Post
Debby-D....
Be prepared for the attacks on wanting to breed your dogs. Too many people on this site like to tell others what to do, cause they don't like it!
You clearly haven't seen what happens when people breed dogs for money and don't care about the health of the dogs. Where I live animal control is taking in 100-200 dogs a day. They literally kill thousands of unwanted dogs in a year. Many many more are dumped and die a slow death from starvation and disease. The vast majority of these are from backyard breeders that just want to make a quick buck.

I'm not against breeding dogs IF someone is a member of the AKC parent club or breed appropriate working dog club, subscribes to the club's code of ethics and breeding guidelines, obtains the appropriate health screenings, participates with their dog in conformation or working events and screens potential purchasers.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:59 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
12,448 posts, read 31,537,716 times
Reputation: 8157
AKC does the DNA testing IF there is any questions about parents. I went thru this with Lady-Bug... Turned out the Sire on her papers was reg with the WRONG Sire! IT was a Mess but they got it straighten out. Contact AKC for a Testing kit... then send it back with payment. They will contact the breeder for the Parents DNA for testing.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:00 AM
 
Location: Maine
1,241 posts, read 907,189 times
Reputation: 952
Quote:
Originally Posted by Debby-D View Post
We bought Bella from a breeder who gave us her AKC papers - We paid $900 for her. I wanted a purebred Pom that I could breed and have puppies.
Now 7 months later, she is 14 pounds. We did her DNA test. She is 100% Pomeranian on her mom's side. And on dad's side, his grandmother was bred with a dog that had Pom and Bichon Frieze, Keeshond, and other mixed. The seller gave us AKC papers to fill out and register her. We were guaranteed that she would get to be 7 to 9 pounds max. (not sure how anyone can guarantee anything like size when they really don't know). The DNA results show that Bella has 12.5% Bichon and 12.5% mixed - the Keeshond, Chihuahua, other. For health reasons - she should be very healthy and not have some of the different disease's that Pom's have the tendency to get. Her coat is coming in gorgeous. And she has stunning colors. But a long "Bichon Frieze" body. Her fur is more of that of the Keeshond. I wanted to breed her with other Pom's and raise Pom babies. I don't want to take her to court as I love this dog. I just don't like it that we have gotten taken advantage of - and I don't want anyone else to get taken by this unscrupulous breeder.
I am afraid those DNA tests are a bit of a joke. The reason for such wild results- laughable actually, is that many breeds came from the mixing of other breeds originally...
Example- I have Borzoi.. They came from the Russian Collie and Greyhound- yet- if I did a DNA on any of them- it is possible those ' joke of a test" could come up with anything from " greyhound, collie" to "golden retriever etc.

Also, the size of a puppy when full grown is largely by genetics- and I do not mean mixing the breed.
If you bought a puppy from a good show line, health tested parents, and a history in the breed, you are far more likely to " get what you pay for" as far as health, body structure etc.
Poms use to be a much bigger dog- about 14 to even 20 pounds. Over the decades they were bred down smaller and smaller in the generations. Sounds like to me- it is possible that the adults of said pups- or the grandparents etc were bigger " less than standard " in size.
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