U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-04-2017, 08:22 AM
 
1,706 posts, read 1,212,768 times
Reputation: 4829

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
The thing is, these other dogs are super friendly. I'm hoping that Frederik will be able to sense that.

You think these dogs are friendly, but you have absolutely no idea how an established pack will react to a new dog who may be timid or hesitant. Frederick may or may not get along with them; you can't make them be best buddies if they don't agree with your take on the situation.

He had a run-in with another dog tonight in the park. I've got to admit it was our fault. Both dogs were on leashes and seemed to want to play with each other. They started chasing one another around in circles, but within seconds their leashes became tangled and Frederik became aggressive towards the other dog.

Yes, it was your fault. He did NOT become aggressive. He became confused and panicked when the leashes tangled and he couldn't get away.

It's just that initial meeting where he's overly excited. For this reason, I'm not sure how to handle him when he meets my sister's dogs. I don't think he'd attack any of them, especially because I don't think he'd sense any aggression in them, but I can't be 100% positive.
You really need to stop putting these situations off onto Frederick. I keep hearing you say in different ways that if something goes wrong with a meeting that it is Frederick's fault. It isn't. Just because dogs don't get along isn't necessarily one dog's fault or another dog's fault. It just means that in that situation at that particular time they didn't get along. Maybe one dog was frightened or intimidated, maybe the dog was reading anxiety from the owner and responded in kind, maybe one dog was tired/hungry/bored and didn't want to meet another dog, etc. And again- not all dogs want to interact with other dogs. You need to respect this.

Your primary concern should be protecting Frederick from situations he isn't ready for, stepping up to intervene on his behalf, and letting him know that you will advocate for him and put his interests first and foremost. And I will add that if you aren't willing to do these things then YOU (not Frederick) are responsible for his reactions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-04-2017, 09:05 AM
 
16,568 posts, read 14,024,069 times
Reputation: 20523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
My sister has three dogs, all of whom are extremely social, both with people and with other dogs. She has agreed to watch Frederik at her house when we are out of town. We won't be going for an extended trip until next July, but we will be leaving town for just three days on September 15. Frederik gets his stitches (from his encounter with the Doberman in L.A.) out this coming Thursday and will no longer have to wear the Collar of Shame. I wanted to take him over to her house to get acquainted with her, her husband, and their dogs over a period of several days prior to just dropping him off. She agrees that this would be a good idea. We decided that starting after he gets his stitches out (i.e. Thursday, September 7), I'll take him over to her place and leave him for an hour or so every day until the 15th, which is when we'll leave him for three days. I'll stick around the first day just to make sure there aren't going to be any major conflicts.

I just read the following online: (Source: Humane Society article)

Greeting on leash is unnatural. When off-leash and in their own environment, dogs naturally greet from the side. They donít approach head-on and make hard eye contact unless a fight is about to start. When dogs meet on leash, they are typically forced to approach head-on and can't turn their bodies. Most dogs donít want to fight, so they display a number of behaviors designed to prevent this: barking, lunging, growling, anything to make the threat go away.

Dogs feel trapped. If the owners let their dogs say hi, the problems can increase. Both dogs are trapped on leash and unable to increase the distance between each other. Owners often have their dogs on tight leashes in case anything happens, but tight leashes communicate tension to the dogs and further increase their stress. What happens is an explosion of barking as both dogs go from flight to fight. If this doesnít happen, owners might assume the dogs are fine because neither is barking or growling, but don't recognize signs of stress like pacing, panting, scratching, flattened ears, and low tails.


Obviously, when we show up at her house, her dogs will not be on leashes. They are typically right at the door when I arrive, waiting to shower me with kisses. As sweet as they are, I can't imagine letting Frederik run head on towards a group of three larger dogs all at once, but from what I read in this article, I'm confused as to how exactly we should handle the situation. Also, I don't know how his encounter with the Doberman will affect him in the future. It is absolutely essential to me that Frederik be dog-friendly. The rescue person (the *itch who let the Doberman at him in the first place) said that he gets along very well with other dogs, but I'm concerned that the attack may have changed all that.

Suggestions from all you experts would be much appreciated.
When ever I introduce fosters or new dogs to my dogs I do so in neutral territory. Luckily we have a bike path nearby and we all go for a walk. No nose to nose introductions at this time we just walk. A decently long one, so everyone is walking together for half an hour, so they get used to each other's smells, and the excitement has worn off.

Only then do we meet off leash, and no matter what the weather it is always outside in our fenced in yard and never the house. Even well socialized dogs are most territorial about their home. This meeting is without treats or toys so there are no resources to guard. Both newcomer and resident dogs wear a short leash but it is not held.

It is vitally important that you remain relaxed, your dog will look to you for guidance on whether to be nervous or not. Dog fights are almost always all noise, so even if there is a scuffle try not to freak out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 09:09 AM
 
16,568 posts, read 14,024,069 times
Reputation: 20523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
The thing is, these other dogs are super friendly. I'm hoping that Frederik will be able to sense that. He had a run-in with another dog tonight in the park. I've got to admit it was our fault. Both dogs were on leashes and seemed to want to play with each other. They started chasing one another around in circles, but within seconds their leashes became tangled and Frederik became aggressive towards the other dog. My gut feeling was that he just kind of panicked. I want to avoid having another scene like that one. Typically on our walks, he's strained at the leash to get to other dogs, but he appears to want to play with them. If we meet someone with a dog and stop to talk for a few minutes, he calms right down and patiently waits for us to finish. It's just that initial meeting where he's overly excited. For this reason, I'm not sure how to handle him when he meets my sister's dogs. I don't think he'd attack any of them, especially because I don't think he'd sense any aggression in them, but I can't be 100% positive.
You really need to get Fredrick some obedience training. A dog that can loose leash walk and behave restrained will not be as likely to elicit a response from other dogs.

In the mean time, do not bring him into your sisters house. That is a recipe for a major fight. Meet on neutral ground and WALK. Dogs who are "pack" walk together. This is more important than playing or greeting or any of it. Then when the excitement is over they can meet on leash, one on one (pick the youngest or most submissive of your sisters dogs first) rather than having him meet the whole pack at once outside, like in their yard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 09:44 AM
 
Location: North Idaho
22,548 posts, read 28,491,298 times
Reputation: 43418
This is how I introduce dogs.

We go for a walk. Dog on leash but not making contact with each other. Just everybody going for a pleasant walk together. People relaxed and chatting. The dogs get a good long look at each other, a good long smell of each other, and they see each other behaving calmly and not aggressive.

Off leash comes next, but preferably in a neutral location where nobody has any territory to defend.

At the very least, introduce him to the other dogs one at a time, not in a pack.

Frederick probably should get his meals inside hos crate while he is there. That prevents any food aggression.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,881 posts, read 22,015,792 times
Reputation: 10643
Quote:
Originally Posted by twelvepaw View Post
You really need to stop putting these situations off onto Frederick. I keep hearing you say in different ways that if something goes wrong with a meeting that it is Frederick's fault. It isn't. Just because dogs don't get along isn't necessarily one dog's fault or another dog's fault. It just means that in that situation at that particular time they didn't get along. Maybe one dog was frightened or intimidated, maybe the dog was reading anxiety from the owner and responded in kind, maybe one dog was tired/hungry/bored and didn't want to meet another dog, etc. And again- not all dogs want to interact with other dogs. You need to respect this.

Your primary concern should be protecting Frederick from situations he isn't ready for, stepping up to intervene on his behalf, and letting him know that you will advocate for him and put his interests first and foremost. And I will add that if you aren't willing to do these things then YOU (not Frederick) are responsible for his reactions.
Wow! I don't even know how to respond to this. I don't know what I said that would make you accuse me of blaming Frederik. I specifically said that the problem encounter was my fault, not his! I didn't blame him in the slightest. Good grief. I'm asking for suggestions, not for condemnation. When I said that Frederik became aggressive towards the other dog, what I meant was that he started to try to bite him. I didn't say that either dog was to blame. The encounter went badly. I was to blame. I acknowledged that from the outset, so you can stop accusing me of doing anything else.

When I decided to adopt Frederik, one of the reasons was that I was told he was friendly with other dogs. Therefore, I am going to assume this to be the case, with or without your permission. He had a bad experience. You may assume that this means he doesn't want to interact with other dogs, but I'm going to assume it was a one-time incident caused by a poor decision on my part.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 10:30 AM
 
Location: West Virginia
12,400 posts, read 31,382,423 times
Reputation: 8093
The FISRT Meeting should NOT be at your sisters Home! Meet at a Park where they can get to know each other & play. Also keep in mind your Dog may react to them with Fear Biting & such May need several meets to get friendly. So don't Force the situation.

Make sure your dog is UTD on ALL vaccines that local Boarding Kennels require. You might need to Board your dog this time around.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 10:48 AM
 
13,675 posts, read 13,514,075 times
Reputation: 39794
I would let Frederik meet one dog at a time at your sister's. Perhaps take him into their backyard on a leash and let the friendliest dog out first for a controlled meeting. Get them playing. Then introduce the other dogs one at a time the same way.

Other option is to bring them all to a deserted dog park and just let them get to know each other - lowers the likelihood of them being territorial, I would think.

My roommate, who has a leash-reactive dog, will sometimes let her dog meet another dog on leash, sniff noses briefly and then pull them apart (distract with treats, whatever) before things can go sour. She does this several times, and her dog often becomes "accustomed" to the other dog and it reduces his reactivity (which is really just fear/uncertainty).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Eureka CA
8,173 posts, read 11,056,480 times
Reputation: 12435
Every few months I have to introduce my pit mix to a new "roommate" as I rent out my extra bed/bath . The dogs are introduced out in the street in front of the house to avoid territorial concerns. After they've had a chance to sniff each other, we bring them into the back yard and let them play. No problems.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Idaho
2,512 posts, read 2,259,476 times
Reputation: 5256
When my Mal met a Mal I was going to foster for a few months, they met in a park (not a dog park), both on leashes and we walked them a few miles, then back to the home where my dog's leash was taken off in the backyard, but the new dog's leash was left on but trailing on the ground. No problem.

When I adopted a Mal in Reno, I drove out there for a few days, the dogs met in a parking lot, we walked them all over Reno for the next three days, and took them to dog parks that were empty to allow them to play, then to dog parks that had other dogs. Then I drove them both back from Reno to SE Idaho in the backseat of my truck
When arriving home, I let them both out of the truck, and the new dog followed the female into the house then outside to the backyard. They never had a problem, and today, they are inseparable.

When one goes to the vet for a teeth cleaning, the other walks around the house looking for their dog friend.

Only time my dogs have ever had problems with other dogs is when they are on leash and the other dog is not and running toward them. But I at that time I also have a bigger problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2017, 01:07 PM
 
1,706 posts, read 1,212,768 times
Reputation: 4829
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Wow! I don't even know how to respond to this. I don't know what I said that would make you accuse me of blaming Frederik. I specifically said that the problem encounter was my fault, not his! I didn't blame him in the slightest. Good grief. I'm asking for suggestions, not for condemnation. When I said that Frederik became aggressive towards the other dog, what I meant was that he started to try to bite him. I didn't say that either dog was to blame. The encounter went badly. I was to blame. I acknowledged that from the outset, so you can stop accusing me of doing anything else.

When I decided to adopt Frederik, one of the reasons was that I was told he was friendly with other dogs. Therefore, I am going to assume this to be the case, with or without your permission. He had a bad experience. You may assume that this means he doesn't want to interact with other dogs, but I'm going to assume it was a one-time incident caused by a poor decision on my part.
I didn't condemn you. I can only go by what you say in your posts. I do get the distinct sense that you are putting the "burden of friendliness" on Frederick which is simply not fair to him.

You said "He had a run-in with another dog tonight in the park.... They started chasing one another around in circles, but within seconds their leashes became tangled and Frederik became aggressive towards the other dog." Just to be clear: a dog who gets his leash tangled up with another (unknown) dog's leash such that he is in close proximity to the other dog and can't get away to gain space then snaps at the other dog is NOT showing aggression; he is simply reacting to the situation. And quite reasonably because while he snapped a warning, he did NOT bite or attack; he communicated his discomfort.

You also said that "The thing is, these other dogs are super friendly. I'm hoping that Frederik will be able to sense that" as if because you know they are so friendly that it is up to Frederick to sense that and if something happens it will be on him because "they are so friendly".

And: "For this reason, I'm not sure how to handle him when he meets my sister's dogs. I don't think he'd attack any of them, especially because I don't think he'd sense any aggression in them, but I can't be 100% positive." It sounds like you are going into this meeting with your sister's dogs feeling that he might make a mis-step without taking into account that it is just as likely that your sister's "very friendly" dogs might not take to him.

All this adds up to my getting the sense that you feel that if there is a problem, it will be because Frederick didn't read that your sister's dogs are friendly or that you feel he may sense aggression in them. This is an entirely inaccurate reading of dog-dog interactions which I find worrisome and unfair to him.

I do think you have some unrealistic expectations for this dog, and I fear that because of this you are potentially on track to push this dog into a situation it can't handle. It doesn't matter what the rescue said. What does matter is that at this point you begin to set Frederick up for success with other dogs.

Not all dogs get along with other dogs. I am going to reiterate what I said before. You need to ensure that Frederick's interactions with dogs going forward are positive. You may wish to work with a CPDT-KA certified trainer who can accurately asses his comfort level with other dogs and ideally set him up for some managed positive play time with other dogs.

Just a heads up- dogs will correct other dogs for rude behavior. This can look problematic, but a dog looking like it is going to bite another dog is frequently not an issue, it is usually a correction. If a dog wants to bite or otherwise attack another dog it will happen in the blink of an eye before your brain can even process what you think you saw.

Here is the link to the CPDT trainer search to look for someone in your area:
http://www.ccpdt.org/dog-owners/cert...ner-directory/

Last edited by twelvepaw; 09-04-2017 at 01:24 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:15 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top