Housebreaking regressing after arrival of kitten (clean, poop, vet, cleaning)

[Katzpur]

The title says it all. Is this normal or not? I can elaborate if necessary, but it's pretty much just what it says.

[Rowan123]

Not surprising to me. IIRC you haven't had the dog that long. He (or she can't remember) may be just starting to feel secure and now there is a pretty major change in his life.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by Rowan123

Not surprising to me. IIRC you haven't had the dog that long. He (or she can't remember) may be just starting to feel secure and now there is a pretty major change in his life.

Yeah, we've only had him (Friederik) for about five and a half weeks. He was doing great with his housebreaking! Once he got the "collar of shame" off him (which he was wearing due to the Doberman attack he experienced while still in his foster home), and showed him the dog door, we introduced him to the doggie door which we had from the last time we owned dogs. He picked up on it so fast it was amazing. We were kind of amused at first by the fact that he was a little bit cautious about going out of it, but would come back in through it going 100 miles an hour. I told my husband that if we'd better never have to put the protective cover over it, because he wouldn't notice it and would probably break his neck coming back in. We kind of got the impression (rightly or wrongly) that he was somehow concerned that we were going to lock him out, and that's why he would rush back in so quickly once he'd done his job.

Anyway, things were going marvelously. We adopted an older cat a week-and-a-half ago, a six-year-old rescue whom we named Allie. She's pretty nervous around him and we have pretty much kept them separated except for when she wants to go out of my office and into somewhere else in the house where she might run into him. In other words, we've left the choice as to whether to interact with him or not up to her. He does not have free access to my office any more, although he did before she arrived.

We adopted a kitten last weekend. The kitten is 10 weeks old and is also a rescue; she was bottle-fed by a vet tech since she was 2 days old and found abandoned. We named her Aimee. Friederik loves her to death. She is his new favorite toy. She was nervous at first around this bull-in-a-China-store creature who wanted to play with her every waking moment, but within just a few days has totally warmed up to him. She teases him to no end and it's a joy to see them together.

Well, to just fill you in on another few pertinent facts. Friederik has pretty much had the run of the house from the beginning, although he really prefers to be with my husband and me as opposed to being alone in another room or outside. We're retired and one or the other of us is home most of the time. I spend a lot of time in my office, which has been off-limits to him since we got Allie. My husband spends a lot of time in the TV room in front of the television. Friederik and Aimee have taken to hanging out there with him. He sleeps in the bedroom with us in his crate, and he's really good about going into it at night. And then there's the kitchen; that's where we feed him and eat most of our meals.

We occasionally go into the living room, but really don't spend a great deal of time in there. A couple of days ago, I found a huge pile of poop in there and a big puddle of pee -- not once, but twice in the same day. I was furious. I didn't physically do anything to Friederik, or even do anything like stick his nose in it or anything like that. I am not that kind of a person. But I was upset and he knew it. He even came over to me while I was cleaning up the mess to try to comfort me.

When we took him to his obedience training class yesterday, I talked to the trainer about the situation and asked her if she thought it might have anything to do with the new kitten. She told me that if he'd messed by the litter box (one of which is in the TV room), she's say it was, but that since it was in the living room, a room we don't spend much time in, she thought it was probably most likely a matter of him having not yet identified that room as "part of his den." She suggested that we block it off for the time being, so that he couldn't get in while we weren't watching him, but that we also try to spend some time in there every day with him so that he comes to realize that this is as much a "part of his den" as the other rooms where he never has accidents. This all made perfect sense to me. In fact, I had pretty much come to the exact same conclusions myself.

Well, guess what? Today while my husband was out mowing the lawn, Friederik pooped right next to the litter box in the TV room (he didn't pee this time, at least). I couldn't believe it! That's the first time since we got him that he has gone in a room where he spends at least 60% of his waking hours. Now I don't know what to think. I had gone outside to pick up all the poop off the lawn before my husband started mowing, and believe me, there was a ton of it. Nobody had taken Friederik outside to do his job any of those times. He'd gone out on his own, time after time after time. I can't help but think he knows he's supposed to be going outside.

So now I don't know what to do. I don't know whether to start watching him like a hawk all of his waking hours, just like I did right after we first got him or to take another approach. I have never bonded to a dog so quickly, and I love him to death. I just need some advice. (And I'm glad that it was you, Rowan, who first responded to my post. You've been very helpful in the past.)

[Katzpur]

Oh, a couple of additional thoughts...

In a way, I'm almost glad that if he pooped inside the house again, it was by the cats' litter box. I mean I think he's trying to tell me something, and it's not, "Mom? Is this where you want me to go potty?" He knows where he's supposed to go; I'm pretty sure of that. I somehow feel that taking him outside into the backyard three or four times a day really isn't going to teach him anything he doesn't already know. None of these problems surfaced till we got Aimee.

[jencam]

Just start over, yes. Start over with training that outside gets a 'big party'.

[Katzpur]

Originally Posted by jencam

Just start over, yes. Start over with training that outside gets a 'big party'.

And how long should this party run? A week? A month? Because if we happen to be outside when Friederik needs to go, he will go outside.

I do appreciate your suggestion, jencam, but are you saying that Friederik really doesn't know that he's supposed to be going outside? Or that he knew but has forgotten? I feel like maybe I've not given him as much attention as I did before the kitten came. That's obviously my fault, and I'm committed to doing better. I just can't help but feel as if Friederik was trying to send me some kind of a message -- especially when he pooped right outside the cats' litter box. Is the message, "I don't know where I'm supposed to potty"? Or is it something else?

[jencam]

I'm thinking he didn't have very long for learning that going outside is set in stone, and now there have been changes, which upended him getting that set in stone. IDK how long. However long it takes. I had no idea when my puppy would catch on and when 'set in stone' would kick in. I did what was needed until it was. /shrug.

IDK about any messages. The kitty poop inside could confuse him, but the regime is going to be the same. Clean the area he pooped/peed with the stuff that removes all traces of smell and go back to square one. I doubt it will take long - he's a smart dog. The cat poops inside but to please you he poops outside.

[jencam]

Thinking on the 'set in stone' thing I truly don't know how that happens. My first dog as an adult, she was 6 months old at least when I got her and potty trained 'set in stone' already. I was petrified when I got a baby puppy that I wouldn't discover how to do it that well! Especially due to being committed to positive only. I worried, will total lack of anything negative really work? But it did. I mean, yes, I would say NO! (and then run her outside) if caught in the act, but that is ALL. NO reaction whatsoever to a whoopsie.

She wouldn't have known what it was for. So even if I didn't mind negative training, it wouldn't have helped and you know it won't with yours. He's obviously been punished before and all that did was teach him to hide when he goes.

So, you were really quite lucky for him to learn as fast as he did. Could have been much harder with a dog who had learned bad habits. Those are harder to undo than teaching good ones to a blank slate baby puppy.

Now, before he ever got used to ANYthing his world changed very fast. First a cat he couldn't go near or he got sprayed. Then a new kitten. He is confused in general and likely insecure about his new place in your world. You are his whole world.

So be patient with the poor baby! Start over, and he will get it again.

[Mikala43]

My pup has had a few incidents where he pooped and peed in the house, despite picking up house training early. On those rare occasions I had no idea why.

It may be co-incidental to the new cat, or he could be confused, or marking his territory? My dogs poop at the perimeters of our property so I am not sure if they are doing it as far away as possible or establishing their own fence line.

I wouldn't get mad at him, I'm a stern pup Mom but never got mad at him for accidents in the house, I don't think it accomplishes anything.

[Katie1]

Dogs have a Short term memory any training You what him to stick too Long term YOU need to do for 60+ days! BTW that 60 days starts over every time he/you mess up Do you really think He Understands Why the Cats don't potty out side But he Has too???