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Old 09-21-2017, 06:31 AM
 
7,801 posts, read 4,391,333 times
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Good grief... I'm not suggesting it would practical for dogs to roam free NOW. Traffic is worse, no one is home all day, kids don't even play outside anymore; they're all indoors on video games and the Internet because that's 'safer.' My whole point is that society has changed to the point where dogs CAN'T live the normal dog life they once lived. Man doesn't seem to have the same need for dogs, whether to do jobs or simply provide companionship (again, the Internet does that). They seem to me to be shoved into ever-increasingly tiny corners of people's busy, over-scheduled lives and made to behave in unnatural ways (dragged along behind a runner or warehoused into a crate all day because they would otherwise be "bad" -- read: anxious, bored, and lonely -- home alone all day). And I feel sorry for them. If you "dote on" your own pets (as I do mine), I would think seeing dogs not properly valued or respected would trouble you; not make you defensive. But I could be wrong.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
I'm describing how I believe dogs are happiest and suggesting that almost no thought goes into that these days in most households. Most are forced to live a very unnatural life, IMO.
This is as close as you get to a valid point here. But by this rationale, human beings also live unnatural lives these days no?

The world changes for dogs too. There's about 90 million pet dogs in the US alone, those are dogs with "a place in modern society." But we euthanize about 2 million homeless dogs a year in the US, so those dogs don't have a place in modern society I guess.

The US has a lot of problems but I don't think our love for dogs is one of them.
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Old 09-21-2017, 06:58 AM
 
1,912 posts, read 995,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
Good grief... I'm not suggesting it would practical for dogs to roam free NOW. Traffic is worse, no one is home all day, kids don't even play outside anymore; they're all indoors on video games and the Internet because that's 'safer.' My whole point is that society has changed to the point where dogs CAN'T live the normal dog life they once lived. Man doesn't seem to have the same need for dogs, whether to do jobs or simply provide companionship (again, the Internet does that). They seem to me to be shoved into ever-increasingly tiny corners of people's busy, over-scheduled lives and made to behave in unnatural ways (dragged along behind a runner or warehoused into a crate all day because they would otherwise be "bad" -- read: anxious, bored, and lonely -- home alone all day). And I feel sorry for them. If you "dote on" your own pets (as I do mine), I would think seeing dogs not properly valued or respected would trouble you; not make you defensive. But I could be wrong.
The problem is you are assuming a lot. The kids in my neighborhood are out until dusk playing, they aren't on video games all day. I see them when I'm walking my dog (and they all want to pet my dog too). And some of them have dogs with them, usually on a leash or in a fenced yard. My dog provides great companionship and she and I spend lots of time together. She gets proper care and seems very healthy and happy. My mom, who is a retired widow, has two dogs that keep her active and vice versa.

What you are describing is a bad pet owner and those have always existed. But it's not most pet owners. For some reason, you seem to have this hang up that all dogs now must be in the hands or horrible owners.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:50 AM
 
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"This is as close as you get to a valid point here. But by this rationale, human beings also live unnatural lives these days no?"

Yes, I believe they do, as a matter of fact.

I don't doubt that there are good owners who love their dogs. But even those owners aren't living the dog-friendly lifestyle that they were even 40 or 50 years ago.
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Old 09-21-2017, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
5,104 posts, read 5,399,275 times
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My dog sleeps for roughly 18 of the 24 hours in a day. Even when we're home all day on a Saturday or Sunday, he's mostly sleeping.

We have a dog walker that comes in the middle of the day, M-F. If we make plans to be away from the house for more than 6 hours on a Saturday or Sunday, we schedule the dog walker to come. We leave a window shade open for him to watch the neighborhood comings and goings from his favorite chair. He's not crated. When we spend time in the (fenced) backyard or on the deck, after about 10 minutes, he's standing at the door waiting to be let back in. Even though his humans are outside, he wants to be inside.

I am pro-leash law. Before we adopted our dog, he was attacked by a large dog and injured pretty badly. So now, he's aggressive toward all large dogs. We've had a couple of instances of running into off leash dogs and it's frightening of how quickly that can go bad. "My dog is friendly" yeah, well....mine isn't so you need to keep your dog away from mine and the only way to ensure that is to have them on a leash. Even friendly dogs will turn aggressive when they feel threatened, I've experienced it first hand which resulted in my (on leash) dog getting injured again.

There are breeds of dogs that need a lot of exercise and love running with their owners. Everyone that I've ever seen running with dogs aren't running with toy/small dogs. Their dogs are large breeds/mixes: labs, German shepherds, etc.

I don't deny that there are bad pet owners but I believe the majority of us are good pet owners. Having jobs and hobbies, taking dogs for runs, keeping them on a leash, having a "house" dog does not make one a bad pet owner.

My dog now has a much better life than the dogs I had growing up, 20-30 years ago.
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:54 AM
 
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
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I also grew up in the 60's and neither our dogs, nor any any of the neighbor's dogs, "roamed free." Even then, there were cars driving up and down the street that could spell the end for any poor creature in their paths.....


OP, I think you are generalizing WAAAAAAAY too much based on your own opinions of how other people live.... I work from home 2-3 days per week and all six of my dogs sleep most of the day away, once they gotten their post-breakfast zoomies out.... They have access to the fenced backyard any time they want it, but they all seem to prefer the air conditioned, or heated, comfort of lolling around on the sofas and my bed indoors..... they have bones and hooves to chew, toys to play with and destroy and each other to snuggle with .... in my mind, that is a pretty sweet life and I work hard to provide it for them!!
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Old 09-21-2017, 10:57 AM
 
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Our pup is crate trained and we play with her all evening and go on walks. We also have her out much of the time on weekend, unless we need to run a quick errand. Her companionship is appreciated in our household, so I would say that she has a place in our modern world.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
4,715 posts, read 10,187,425 times
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I think I need to ask what makes you so sure that dogs in the past lived such fantastic lives? I think many of them did not get a lot of human attention and just spent the day wandering, sleeping and waiting to be noticed by their humans.Just because something is the old way does not mean it is better.

People often tell me that in their next life they want to come back as one of my dogs. I joke about how my dogs have it better then me and might be planning to take over the world .After all it is my dogs that do not have to go work yet have a roof over their head have comfortable places to sleep, have good health care, have a housekeper,have a cook and driver...hummm what an awful life!

As for cats being better because they are Independent, if you ever watch my cat from hell , it seems often the fix for their behavior is more time with owners playing with them so it would seem they too benefit with time spent with owners.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:40 AM
 
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OP you are incredibly wrong in so many ways. Where I live, dogs are welcome in a lot of places, weekend festivals, outdoor patios of bars and restaurants, breweries, etc so dogs are constantly with their owners. Sure, they don't "roam free" as you seem to think is most appropriate but dogs spend a great amount of time with their owners and most of them probably prefer to be sleeping during the day, I know mine do. When I work from home, they sleep and they look annoyed that I'm there to keep them up and out of their routine.
My daily routine with my dogs is as follows: Wake up at 5:30-go to the gym. Home by 7am, walk the dogs for 30 minutes (roughly 2 miles). Then we all eat. They then play in the back yard while I'm getting ready for work. I leave for work at 8:45. They get their treats and both go to sleep. I'm home by 5:30-6 in the evening and they get an hour walk and/or a trip to the dog park. Then dinner and playtime. On the weekends we go on hikes and dog parks and dog friendly events. I guarantee you, my dogs are happy!
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Old 09-21-2017, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Washington, DC
3,849 posts, read 3,972,218 times
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Another factor is that so many dogs have been bred to be good pets. They are bred to be compliant, quiet, affectionate, pretty, etc. They are essentially "house dogs" not able to survive for long on their own anyway. The wild instincts have been largely bred out of them. These kind of dogs (many purebreds, perhaps about 50% of US dogs), are happy living a comfortable domestic life mostly indoors with all their needs provided. If the OP acknowledged this, he would start a different thread.

My mutt is not like this, he can get food, water and shelter on his own and can protect himself from much bigger animals. He would prefer to sleep only 8 hours a day but has adapted well to his life as a house dog, and appreciates his relationships with humans.

The OP would have a point if he was talking about domesticated coyotes or wolves.
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