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Hello to all of you knowledgeable and helpful dog forum regulars. I have learned a ton just by lurking, reading, and taking advantage of the fantastic videos and other resources that you folks post and link to. Thank you so much for all that you do.
My family and I are a newby foster family. We have fostered several dogs for local rescues this year and have completed an 8-week clicker training manners class with our first, and attended supervised puppy play sessions for several months, where we learned a ton about dog behavior, training philosophies, etc., and attended behavioral assessments with trainers. Every single dog that has come to our house has been severely leash-reactive, so we have learned a little about "thresholds", how to work on impulse control, using a "balance" harness, focusing on the handler, and desensitizing them to being around other dogs, while they have been in our care. We are NOT experts by any means, but have our eyes and ears wide open and are willing to learn from those who are willing to teach us.
Our current foster is an adult purebred beagle (approx. 7 or 8) who was pulled from a shelter down south and sent up here around 2-3 months ago. His first stop up north was a foster home/dog day care where he wore a no-bark collar for around 2 weeks while he "played" with the other dogs. He stayed at his second foster home for around a month before he came to our house; there he put on weigh, escaped, and was more than the first-time foster home could handle. At our house, it soon became was clear that the dog has no house manners or self control, was overweight, and we soon saw the leash reactivity. He lunges and barks and goes completely mental when he is outside on a leash and sees a person, dog, bicycle, motorcycle, or atv pass at distances even as great as 50 yards. He has been with us for 2.5 weeks, and we have no other information about his past life.
Over the course of the 2 weeks that he has been with us we have set clear rules and boundaries in the house, implemented NILIF, feed him from kongs and our hands, and he has made incredible progress - waiting for food, waiting at doorways, sitting for affection, not sitting on the couch, not running around the house like a maniac, gong in his crate, etc., etc. He is now calm in the house, and is good with my kids who are 5, 10, and 12 - they can hand feed him, set his Kong down and make him wait for it, and he will sit for them to pet him,,and he will sit with them while they watch Netflix, but I won't let them play fetch with him because he gets easily overexcited.
My question is whether at this age, he can unlearn all of the bad habits that he has developed, and/or recover from the use of training methods that only exacerbated his insecurity - such as a no-bark collar while in daycare. (Incidentally, I took him to a different daycare where the dogs are separated by age, size, and play style - and don't wear any collars whatsoever - and the workers there gave him an A+ for his behavior and interactions with the other dogs while there, so that was good to learn about him.) He is like a puppy in so many ways - gets easily overexcited while playing (he has nipped my hand while going for a ball but responded when I gave him a firm no and turned my back in him), and only knew "sit" and "down" when he arrived, and had the self-control of a 6-month old. But he is slowly improving....
Today I took him to the dog park where we sat drive-in-movie style and watched the dogs and fed him his breakfast as he got used to being around the dogs without going crazy. I am trying to work on "look at that" with him so that when he sees a dog he looks at me. But I feel like this dog has to unlearn and relearn so much. I'm wondering if it is possible to do - if not by my family and me, then by someone else who can devote the time and management it will take. I have told the rescue that we will not be adopting him because we do not have the time or re$sources to help him through this, but are willing to help him while he is with us. I also do not want to exacerbate his insecurity and reactivity, so if anyone sees any red flags regarding what I am doing, please, please, please chime in. This is a "shelterless" rescue that uses foster homes for the dogs while they wait for their new homes. (I would like to also mention that as a foster home for this rescue, I am not required by the rescue to train the dog. I, however, feel that, while the dog is in my home, I owe it to the dog to not only identify the things he needs help with, but also to try to help him work through them, to the extent that I can, so that he or she can have a better life and be more adoptable. I don't want to see this or any dog bounce from home to home. )
So, I guess my question boils down to, do you folks think this old dog can be taught new tricks?
Thank you to all for making it to the end of my post, and to all who offer their help and input.
Last edited by Long Winter; 10-04-2017 at 10:53 AM..
He's had a lot of change in a short time and he's only been with you two weeks. At two weeks in a dog hasn't acclimated to the new home or surroundings. I'm active in rescue and many rescues believe in the "rule" of three posted below. I would not take him to daycare or the dog park until he's had time to decompress fully and feel more secure. It sounds like you're doing a lot of the right things. I think he needs time. I'd work on house manners and leash reactivity for now and hold off on the rest.
Thank you for fostering.
-----------------------------------------------
3 DAYS. Put yourself in your new rescue's shoes. Everything you have known has changed, and you are in a completely new environment that you haven’t quite learned yet. Those first 3 days can be incredibly overwhelming, and pets don’t always “act themselves” during this time frame. Adrenaline is generally boosted for the new pet during this time, making behavior more reactive and less predictable. Many are too stressed or shut down to show their “true colors” just yet. Some are manic, testing and pushing buttons to see what they can get away with. Long story short, the first 3 days could be very telling, or they could also go out with the bath water!
3 WEEKS. You’ve been out of the shelter for a whole 3 weeks now, and you’re starting to realize this new home is safe. You are bonding with your humans who have shown you nothing but love, and you’re beginning to trust them. You’re mastering the environment, and beginning to recognize patterns, such as when the humans leave and arrive home from work. Feel-good hormones like serotonin and dopamine begin to increase and combat the negative adrenaline and epinephrine surges. This is often the time a new pet starts to feel comfortable, and let their guard down. Enter behavioral changes, stage left.
3 MONTHS. This is the estimated time is takes for a new pet to fully settle down into a routine of a household. Trust and love has been built, and your new pet has an overall sense of security. Predictability is comforting, and it may take several months of repetition for your new pet to feel this way.
Honestly, a little leash reactivity doesn't bother me. My Catahoula was pretty crazy with it, but I managed it and was careful with him in crowds. It was only with regard to other dogs that were his size or bigger.
A protocol my former roommate has used with some success with her dog is to let the dog greet the new dog by touching noses briefly, then pulling them apart. Then repeating that several times until they are desensitized.
ummm what kind of "no bark" collar are we talking about here?
The rescue is looking to adopt him out as soon as possible, so we are in a tough spot, because he won't be able to go through those 3 stages with us. He does feel safe here and over time as we earn his trust, he might make fantastic progress. I can reach out to them to see if we can keep him longer and continue to work with him. Short of that, we'd probably have to adopt him outright in order to continue helping him. Many rescues around here adopt the dogs out "as -is," and the new owners take over the training or re-training as they see fit. I try to do my best to let prospective owners know EVERYTHING that I can tell them about a dog, and not sugar-coat known issues. I don't think it's fair to the potential adopters or the dog.
We only went to the dog park to watch from the car. Thank you for suggesting that even that might be too much too soon. I feel like I have to figure everything out quickly because of how the process works.
The no-bark collar gives the dogs a zap if they bark too many times in a given time period. I thought it was nuts to do on a dog who had just had his entire world turned upside down. In a daycare/play setting. And on a beagle, no less....
Thanks for your input on reactivity and your suggestions. He lunges and barks and makes quite a scene and is really difficult to control - it's a good thing he's only 30 lbs . It makes going for a walk even on a quiet trail extremely stressful, and even with careful planning, all it takes is one person on a trail or in a parking lot -it doesn't even have to be a dog - and all hell breaks loose. I was thinking that managing this isn't what most folks are looking to take on when they're looking to adopt an adult dog - but maybe I'm wrong about that. Thanks for the perspective!
Last edited by Long Winter; 10-04-2017 at 11:30 AM..
The no-bark collar gives the dogs a zap if they bark too many times in a given time period. I thought it was nuts to do on a dog who had just had his entire world turned upside down. In a daycare/play setting. And on a beagle, no less....
Thanks for your input on reactivity and your suggestions. He lunges and barks and makes quite a scene and is really difficult to control - it's a good thing he's only 30 lbs . It makes going for a walk even on a quiet trail extremely stressful, and even with careful planning, all it takes is one person on a trail or in a parking lot -it doesn't even have to be a dog - and all hell breaks loose. I was thinking that managing this isn't what most folks are looking to take on when they're looking to adopt an adult dog - but maybe I'm wrong about that. Thanks for the perspective!
Try the method I suggested with dogs your foster already knows and see how it goes maybe? Then graduate to other dogs?
Ugh on the collar. I'm not opposed to remote-controlled citronella collars for specific situations, but an automatic shock under those conditions is just not helpful.
If it's stressful, maybe get him a little vest that says something like "Foster Dog In Training" or something? Maybe people will steer clear a little more and minimize the uncontrolled interactions.
You've been given some great suggestions. The only thing I can add, especially as he's hopefully going to find a forever home soon is to work on the leash issue if you'd like to give it the time. I've found with my Labitude (Border Collie/Labrador mix) that working her on the leash in the backyard, one on one has done wonders. In this setting, without her brother "helping", she's quickly picking up on what I want her to do and seems extremely happy at the end of each session. If you do this, you can focus on the good and praising him when he follows your commands.
Good luck and thank you for taking things a step further than providing a safe environment!!
We do do leash work in the yard and in the house. He is definitely making some progress.
We suspect he was a hunting dog in his past life, so a lot of this behavior might be hard-wired into him. It would be great if we can find him a home with lots of room to run so that walks aren't a huge part of his lifestyle.
Hello to all of you knowledgeable and helpful dog forum regulars. I have learned a ton just by lurking, reading, and taking advantage of the fantastic videos and other resources that you folks post and link to. Thank you so much for all that you do.
My family and I are a newby foster family. We have fostered several dogs for local rescues this year and have completed an 8-week clicker training manners class with our first, and attended supervised puppy play sessions for several months, where we learned a ton about dog behavior, training philosophies, etc., and attended behavioral assessments with trainers. Every single dog that has come to our house has been severely leash-reactive, so we have learned a little about "thresholds", how to work on impulse control, using a "balance" harness, focusing on the handler, and desensitizing them to being around other dogs, while they have been in our care. We are NOT experts by any means, but have our eyes and ears wide open and are willing to learn from those who are willing to teach us.
Our current foster is an adult purebred beagle (approx. 7 or 8) who was pulled from a shelter down south and sent up here around 2-3 months ago. His first stop up north was a foster home/dog day care where he wore a no-bark collar for around 2 weeks while he "played" with the other dogs. He stayed at his second foster home for around a month before he came to our house; there he put on weigh, escaped, and was more than the first-time foster home could handle. At our house, it soon became was clear that the dog has no house manners or self control, was overweight, and we soon saw the leash reactivity. He lunges and barks and goes completely mental when he is outside on a leash and sees a person, dog, bicycle, motorcycle, or atv pass at distances even as great as 50 yards. He has been with us for 2.5 weeks, and we have no other information about his past life.
Over the course of the 2 weeks that he has been with us we have set clear rules and boundaries in the house, implemented NILIF, feed him from kongs and our hands, and he has made incredible progress - waiting for food, waiting at doorways, sitting for affection, not sitting on the couch, not running around the house like a maniac, gong in his crate, etc., etc. He is now calm in the house, and is good with my kids who are 5, 10, and 12 - they can hand feed him, set his Kong down and make him wait for it, and he will sit for them to pet him,,and he will sit with them while they watch Netflix, but I won't let them play fetch with him because he gets easily overexcited.
My question is whether at this age, he can unlearn all of the bad habits that he has developed, and/or recover from the use of training methods that only exacerbated his insecurity - such as a no-bark collar while in daycare. (Incidentally, I took him to a different daycare where the dogs are separated by age, size, and play style - and don't wear any collars whatsoever - and the workers there gave him an A+ for his behavior and interactions with the other dogs while there, so that was good to learn about him.) He is like a puppy in so many ways - gets easily overexcited while playing (he has nipped my hand while going for a ball but responded when I gave him a firm no and turned my back in him), and only knew "sit" and "down" when he arrived, and had the self-control of a 6-month old. But he is slowly improving....
Today I took him to the dog park where we sat drive-in-movie style and watched the dogs and fed him his breakfast as he got used to being around the dogs without going crazy. I am trying to work on "look at that" with him so that when he sees a dog he looks at me. But I feel like this dog has to unlearn and relearn so much. I'm wondering if it is possible to do - if not by my family and me, then by someone else who can devote the time and management it will take. I have told the rescue that we will not be adopting him because we do not have the time or re$sources to help him through this, but are willing to help him while he is with us. I also do not want to exacerbate his insecurity and reactivity, so if anyone sees any red flags regarding what I am doing, please, please, please chime in. This is a "shelterless" rescue that uses foster homes for the dogs while they wait for their new homes. (I would like to also mention that as a foster home for this rescue, I am not required by the rescue to train the dog. I, however, feel that, while the dog is in my home, I owe it to the dog to not only identify the things he needs help with, but also to try to help him work through them, to the extent that I can, so that he or she can have a better life and be more adoptable. I don't want to see this or any dog bounce from home to home. )
So, I guess my question boils down to, do you folks think this old dog can be taught new tricks?
Thank you to all for making it to the end of my post, and to all who offer their help and input.
Excitability is part and parcel with beagles. I had a half border collie half beagle, strangest dog I ever had.
Anyway, sounds like you are doing the right thing. They are a little slower to train than many more motivated breeds but sounds like he is already making progress. But everyone needs to be realistic about what the end goals are for this dog. Beagles are a noisy breed. It is likely better to focus on "fixing" other behaviors and try to find him a home that is familiar with beagles.
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Thank you for suggesting that even that might be too much too soon. I feel like I have to figure everything out quickly because of how the process works.
