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Morning, Congratulations to Luna on finishing her radiation treatments and so glad you are home! That was a wonderful thing to help her, Alessia, and we agree with Joyce about the fish oil. Keep us informed on the holistic and other progress.
Joyce, I bought a white frame and thought I would take some of the dried flowers from arrangements that we were sent and somehow put around the frame, with pictures in it - either as a collage or overlapping somehow. I also have a pack of appropriate sayings to use in it, too. Not sure, as I am a little leary of getting out the pictures. At grief group, two people brought in their memorial scrapbooks and they were lovely, there are many things you can put on the pages. My neighbor made me a lovely ceramic stone with a little Rocky dog on the top, and personalized it - she spent alot of time on it and it meant alot to us. I have yet to go to UB to walk where we went. This was the time of year that was best, and he would swim and enjoy looking all around. Labs are such great trackers, although in time he just was happy to go and sit and enjoy the sights - I have a memory box my son made with some of the special things in it. Is that the area that you are thinking of taking Sheldon? We'll have to compare how the memorial projects are coming along.
Sending supportive loving thoughts to everyone and we are praying for all of you. Darbi and Rocky
To those of you still fighting the cancer you might want to get the book The Nature Of Animal Healing by Martin Golstein D.V.M. he is one of the vets at Smith Ridge Veterinary Center in South Salem New York. It is a well known Holistic vet clinic.
He talks about the importance of diet and supplements and about how and why he feels vaccines are often reponsible for the increase in cancers we are seeing in pets. He cautions that if you have a dog being treated with Cancer DO NOT get vaccines as in patients he had that they had good control of the cancer when the pet returned and the cancer was active again it often had recently gotten vaccines from its regular vet before the cancer became active again.
He also discusses the healing crisis in great detail and how things often get worse before they get better because of this crisis. He brings up an important thing to remember that Mucus,urine,poop (often in the form of diarrhea) are the body's way of getting rid of Toxins so in the case of treating nasal cancer if you see more mucus it may just be the body ridding itself of the toxins that would have been produced by dieing cancer cells. So after radiation an increase of mucus may show that the cancer is indeed dieing .
The whole book is a very interesting read had I not been way across the country from New York I would have taken Dash to see him but we are in California so that would have been a long expensive trip and going back for check ups would have been impossible.
He does feel that the intranasal Bordetella vaccine may be responsible for some of the nasal cancers but Dash never got it via his nose as the vet in his face freaked him out and the vet did not want him upset so he got it as an injection, he also only got shots every 3 years so was not as over vaccinated as most dogs though even every 3 years could be over vaccination. The book is interesting and gives you alot to think about and yes it does stress the importance of diet as that is what keeps the immune system healthy so it can fight off cancer and disease.
Darbi, your project sounds beautiful and will hopefully be helpful in your healing process. Maybe when we our complete with projects we can post pictures for all to see! I started my scrapbook which is coming along, painful at times but also something to focus this strong energy on. I totally understand about the picture part, you want to look but you also want to look away...
Alessia and Luna so glad you are home, hopefully the dust has settled (for now) and you can "just be".
Jan, its interesting about what you wrote about the bordetella vaccine as Sheldon got it every time and in his nose and you wonder if that was to blame. But I know that Im looking for something to blame this terrible disease on. We may never know. I know with my next dog (someday) I will be a litte bit more aware of all the things I have learned on this site and through my experiences with Sheldons health.
I hope all is well with everyone. Today in Mass it rains, hopefully there will be a rainbow...
joyce (and sheldog)
the first side-effects around the eye (skin) unfortunatly appeared... and what's weird and is driving me crazy is that these are on the wrong side: around the left eye!!! which, yes, was in the radiation field, but less than the right one... much less...
The vets told me I should have expected more side effects on the right and there might have been some also on the left while...actually... what's happening is that the right side is totally ok while the left one looks so bad....
I don't want to write down what I have thought about this thing ... but I guess you can all understand!!!
I'm giving her antibiotics + prednisone.... and I'm going to make her wear the e-collar... poor baby!!!
Alessia and Luna, we are praying that the healing of Luna's eye area will be quick. And the medications will heal and the cone protects the area from rubbing it. All of you are in our prayers.
Joyce you are doing better than I am on the project, I keep looking at it and just can't start. Having a bad week this week with my son's dog, Sarge, who I love so much too. I will get to it. I think I am very angry at this disease, it has taken so many of our babies from us. Thankful that Dash and Jan have kept researching, it has to be something causing this being so isolated an area, to my way of thinking. Rocky never had the bordatella given in his nose, but he was a sniffer and what I read and know of Labs, they are one of the at risk dogs because of this. I have done so much reading, and friends sent me articles on it. We'll keep Luna in our thoughts. Went to grief group last night, they are planning our memorial for July for the newer people, so I will have to get mine done. Thanks Jan and Dash, we hope that the after postings will also be of some comfort to those, to know that we have a place to feel secure and understood here. Darbi and Rocky
What is happening to the eye area? Did they give you eye drops to keep the eye lubricated? Dash did not have any side effects so I guess I am surprized that she does and that they seem to be seeing them in their patients. He did have mild dry eye and the drops worked there I even switched to human over the counter drops because his was so mild. I also do not know why the other side would be even worse but I suppose it could have to do with the spot her tumor was and the fact that both eyes were in the field of the radiation. With Dash they were pretty much able to bend the beam around the left eye so it got very little. I got to see the histograms the vet did of Dash's treatment so I know his was done to the correct side and got to see that his tumor got a 100% hit. There is a possibility that they could have done the wrong side as you do see humans that get the wrong leg or arm cut off so anything is possible but if they did I would hope they would be honest and tell you. But it could also be possible that because of the location of the tumor that other side did take a large hit too.
Dash did get alot of congestion but that is expected as it is the toxins produced by dieing cancer cells and other dieing tissue being removed via the bodys way of doing so and that is with the mucus. If she is itching the area or rubbing it and is getting some trauma from that the rubbing could also mean the tumor is some what inflammed and dieing off as inflammation does itch. Or maybe the tear duct on that side took a direct hit and is not functioning at all so she has dry eye as I think that itches too. For now just do what they have you doing and keep the collar on her to prevent her from causing damage by rubbing or itching. Don't know if benedryl would help or not but dogs can take it. I would have to look up the dose as I do not remember it .If you do not have eye drops call a vet and get some. People that had all the side effects from regular radiation all say it passes so one just has to hang in there. I am sorry you and Luna are having to deal with this makes me that much more thankful that Dash did not have side effects.
here you don't get any histogram or anything (like percentages of doses or tumor hit)... you just need to trust what they tell you... and I can't 'cause as I told you all from the very beginning I don't like them.... I was just forced to do the treatment there as it's the only possible location.
Yes they gave me two different eyes ointments to put in both eyes twice or three times a day, this from the very beginning: on the day of the first treatment and still now... and up to now the eyes seem to be fine.
What's "burnt" is the skin around the left eye + some hair loss on the left "eyelid".... and what is totally weird is that the right side is fine (!!!!!!)
Unfortunatly no: If they made a mistake they wouldn't tell me... as I would blame them legally .... and I guess they know. But I'll find this out, if so.
I've emailed the doctor who made the radiation plan (the same I emailed at the beginning of the treatment and her email of the time is posted a few pages backbward on this thread) and here is her answer.... please tell me what you thing about it
__________________________________________________ __________________ vet's email:
Cara Alessia, I did not forget you, but had to log into the planning computer in order to review the plan first. Indeed there is a spot of high dose above the left upper eyelid on the medial side, e.g. exactly where the dermatitis starts to form. This is due to the two therapy fields I made (one from the top and one from the right lower field).
The dose in the left eye, however, was really low in this plan, as I told you before. It sometimes happens, that there is more dose in some areas and I will always choose skin rather than more sensitive organ such as eye or brain or so. Skin will react fast, but also heal fast and be of no long-term consequence.
You also have to remember, that Luna's tumor, even if in the right nasal cavity, was greatest in the region close to the eyes and there I could not make the treatment field smaller, without missing part of the tumor - the least thing I would want.
However, I can calm you down: many dogs with tumors close to skin will have 100% of the dose Luna had IN the nose and in a small part of upper eyelid, in the skin and big fields of skin will look like Luna's spot. This will heal quite fast, and the maximum of reaction is usually seen about 1 week after end of RT.
I suggest that you continue antibiotics, while skin is moist and irritated, and give her also cortisone (prednisone) for a couple of days. This will alleviate the inflammation and take away the itch she might have. And prepare for some hair loss around the right eye as well ;-) Do not let her scratch or rub the lesion. If she lets you, you can put some tissue (like a washcloth) bathed in cold (can be out of fridge), strong black or green tea. This is adstringent and is thought to help heal faster. If she does not like it, don't force it, the use is probably not sooo big. Some dogs really like it though.
Do you want to send me another picture about Sunday or Monday?
I hope I'm not annoying or bothering anyone with this personal thing...
the following is the previous email where she told me about the side-effects I could expect from treatmet. do you think the two emails are consistent?
here she talks about a dermatitis around the eye but doesn't specify which one though.
> Cara Alessia, no problem. I was busy this morning, so I only see your mail
> now.
> As I said before, in general, the risk of corneal damage (acute side
> effects) in these cases is very low. If it occurs, it can be treated and
> will heal completely. So this is the theory.
> As your treating veterinarian, it is my obligation to inform you about this,
> also if the probability is low.
>
> However, in the treatment plan for Luna the eyes are not receiving a high
> dose. The right eye (on the side of the tumor) of course gets a bit more
> dose than the left, but I do not think this will result in acute side
> effects of the eye.
>
> I have seen many dogs with tumor breaking from the nasal cavity into the
> orbital cavity (behind the eye), in these cases the eye will get much more
> dose, but also in these cases, damage is never devastating with the dose we
> use.
>
> The acute side effects will start in the last week of RT and continue for
> about another week. The only thing we will see in Luna will be some hair
> loss and dermatitis around the eye, where the skin is very thin. Luna will
> be supported with medication to prevent infection (antibiotics), medication
> that reduces inflammation (corticosteroids). She will have to wear a collar
> in order to prevent scratching, but only for about one week.
> Furthermore eye oinments (Vit A and Optimmune) will be continued.
>
> Cataract is considered a late damage and it will develop in about 9-12
> months, gradually. The opacity of the lens in the eye will increase, but
> this will not make the dog blind, almost all old dogs have this and
> clinically, it is usually not a problem. I suspect, that Lunas right eye
> will develop some lens opacity (cataract) in the future, but again, this
> will not make her blind on this eye.
>
> After the treatment, Luna will have a normal life, this is the goal of the
> treatment. These dogs sometimes have nasal infections more frequently than
> “normal” dogs, but she can have antibiotics, if there is purulent discharge.
>
> All carcinomas (also TCC) are responsive to radiation, however, as each
> tumor has individual aggressivity, the length of response can vary. Luckily,
> Lunas tumor is not very aggressive.
>
> Dear Alessia, don’t worry so much, Luna will be fine!
>
> I am in touch daily with the colleagues from COV, so I am updated about all
> the cases.
>
> Sincerely, Carla
>
Dear Alessia, It seems that they explained the after affects in both of the emails, and I must say that they are very detailed and the emails are long. I cannot imagine my doctor writing such a detailed mail to me, and find that a comfort. For Luna as the procedure is completed, the main thing would be to treat any after affects. If she will let you hold the compress to her, maybe that would help. I have found sometimes that I will do what is best, as in my son's dog's tail situation - clean it out, add the medication and then I will let it alone. If I seem anxious he will pick up on it. If you have the right medications to use - and there again, those who have been through this radiation would know what they used, then I would do that and keep the cone on to help protect from rubbing.
remember when Rocky had ear surgery - an aural hematoma, the cone actually was too long and they do come in sizes so with the shorter one, he could eat and drink. The other cone was so long he could not get to even his water dish. I didn't realize that they could be in different lengths.
We have you in our prayers for a good recovery of the symptoms. Darbi, Sarge and Rocky
Alessia, Can you not get the histology from the doctor - Luna's vet?
That would be your information, I would assume. Have you written that to the doctor, that you would appreciate a copy of it for your records.
I think you would feel better if you had a copy of it or verification of your concerns.
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