U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
Old 10-05-2010, 05:56 AM
 
Location: Buffalo, New York
72 posts, read 84,799 times
Reputation: 14

Advertisements

We are so sorry to read of Josie. And you are a concerned parent and doing so much for her - she is beautiful in her picture. our Rocky had a sudden onset of this disease with a small bleeding and then a lump appeared between his eyes. We decided at 12.4 years, we would keep him comfortable and palliative care. A loving vet recommended a good B-12 vitamen that we found at Vitamen World and said it would make him feel better. He was on Prednisilone and did bloat, the doctor did blood work and his hemocrit was at 16 - 30 is very low, and we had him receive a transfusion. I know it is not palliative caree but we panicked as it was only 2 weeks since we found he had nasal cancer and we were losing him quicker than the 3 months that were given as a time.

Our precious boy passed on Sunday, Palm Sunday, with his family around him. There are many good and caring folks here, Dashdog is truly a godsend, and the posts we read and reread of all. We only wish we had had more time with Rocky after learning of his cancer. Of course, that is how all of us feel. Keep posting and the support is very important and helps you to help Josie.
Darbi and Rocky, sweet angel
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-05-2010, 12:38 PM
 
15 posts, read 32,337 times
Reputation: 10
Hi Everyone!

Here is an update on Sage. We have about made it to the 1 year mark since diagnosis. The last time I wrote I was having anxiety about putting him to sleep...well....still haven't made that decision yet, but know it is close.

Sage's nose under his right eye kept swelling and then going down, but a few weeks ago it just kept swelling until it busted open. It didn't bleed. The hair was gone and yellow mucus started leaking out. The mucus looks just like the stuff coming out of his nose. A few days ago the swelling started going down, but it is still leaking. Yesterday we noticed another spot on the top of his nose swelling and the hair is gone. Think this spot might bust open too. How do I know if this is infection? He is on doxycycline (antibiotic) and has been on it for a year because it reduces the amount of mucus discharge from his nose. I know Dash had the swelling around his eye bust open. Any information you could give me on this would be helpful.

As far as the sore in the top of his mouth...it hasn't bled in a while and he got to where he wouldn't eat the soft food anymore, so he is back on hard food. He is beginning to lose weight.

All of this is very scary for us. My husband talked with me this morning and said he believes he is ready to put him to sleep and asked my thoughts. I just told him I didn't know. Please pray for us to know when the right time is (as if there is a "right" time).

I love this forum and thank everyone for their postings.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
3,533 posts, read 5,124,505 times
Reputation: 5295
So sorry to hear that Sage's swelling is now opening up. Yes Dash's opened up and we tried for about two weeks to clear up some of that infection as he has on antibiotics and I put coconut oil on the wound as a dressing. It has been used to treat bad infections but that infection was so overwhelming and we really got no where. I think he was becoming septic and did not want that as that would kill him for sure and is not a pretty way to die so I put him down. He was ready to go so that made it easier.

It is difficult but sometimes the toughest things we must do in life are also the most difficult. But we do survive them our hearts may be in a million pieces for some time but we survive. Just keep in mind that there really is not anything that you can do at this point as it is out of your hands when it reaches this point of the swelling opening up and it will most likely keep opening up until you have a huge crater of a wound and all that tissue in it will be rotten, so do not let guilt creep in as you have fought as well as you could but Cancer too often is the winner.Death is a part of life and Cancer is just one of the many ways we get there. Pour on the love to Sage and do something he loved to do. Something that will bring a smile to your face. The memories of buying Dash his own McDonalds meal and just he and I sitting on the hill over looking the ocean as we ate and shared our chocolate shake brings smiles to me as he was so happy to have junk food that I think he thought he had died and gone to heaven Dash was never the top dog always was the underdog as he lived with Queen Jazz and she was top dog and never let him forget that.As we sat on the hill eating and the Queen and Dazzle were both back at the house I am sure he felt like top dog as he sat so tall and proud, top dog at last!


Last you have everyone here to help you through this as so many of us have already said good bye and we know how much it can hurt and that it does help to have support and to just talk about it. My prayers go out to you, your family and Sage.(((((( Hugs to you all)))))) Jan
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 03:30 PM
 
7 posts, read 10,531 times
Reputation: 10
Jan:

Thanks for your information -- much appreciated. I understand the issue of too much neo, and too often. I guess what I'll do is give her the 1:1 dilution every other day. It's actually Dr Scanlon who suggested going to daily dosage. Josie has bled only once (last week when she got her first 1:1 dose). Dr Scanlon told me that Josie "has to bleed", and if the current neo strength, and dosage, isn't causing her to bleed, then to increase the frequency to daily. I have been hesitant, just for the reasons you indicated. She did get a dose today, which was two days in a row. Her 'ugly sounds" are about the same as usual. No bleeding, though. Josie has no discharge through the nose. No mucous, no blood, no nothing. But, from the sounds she makes it appears she has a lot of mucous. But, she is constantly licking her lips, and swallowing, which makes me think she is swallowing the mucous. She has two types of poops -- normal, and then one that follows the normal which is very soft, and gray/tan color. I have wondered if she might be excreting the dead tissue, mucous, etc.

I have considered taking her to CO State Univ vet school/hospital. I have a call into them, but they haven't responded for a few days. I doubt I would go the chemo, radiation route. I understand they have a new high intensity radiotherapy. But, my guess is that it is VERY expensive. I wish I knew of some successes with nasal cancer using neo. Dr Scanlon told me she has had successes, but I don't know what 'success' means. My holistic vet has never used neo in nose drops, and wouldn't do it until I had him talk with Dr Scanlon. He is a great guy, but I doubt he knows anymore about neo than I do.

I'll try the Mucinex. What dosage did you use?

Any other ideas are much appreciated.

Thanks,

Peter
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 04:07 PM
 
7 posts, read 10,531 times
Reputation: 10
Jan:

Were you giving Dash antibiotics? I had been giving Josie 1000mg of Keflex daily, but my holistic vet suggested I stop -- too much overload for the liver. But, if infection is likely, then I would think I should be giving antibiotics. What do you think? I do give Josie Milk Thistle daily to help her liver. Nothing else. BTW, Josie does have a bump on the side of her face. I assume this is a growth from the cancer.

Peter
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2010, 10:28 PM
 
7 posts, read 10,531 times
Reputation: 10
Jan:

You indicate in one of your posts that you're not sure you would use neo for nasal cancer again. Are you saying you wouldn't use neo nose drops, or neo period? What would you do differently?

Thanks,

Peter
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2010, 01:22 AM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
3,533 posts, read 5,124,505 times
Reputation: 5295
Peter,

The dose of Mucinex I gave Dash was 1/2 a tablet every 12 hrs as needed so 1/2 the 12yr old to adult human dose. He was 45-50lbs. He had no problems with it but he had a caste iron gut and often ate things that would make most dogs sick yet he never got sick from any of it.

He only got antibiotics when I suspected he had an infection. He was on perixocam and very low dose cytoxin as a metronomic therapy to stop the blood supply to the tumor besides having had the palliative IMRT.

DR Scanlon had him on Hoxsey and Power Mushrooms to help his immune system. I know from a conversation I had with the oncologist about a conversation he had with her she was quite hopeful that what he had done by the oncologist and what she was giving him including the Neoplasene would possible cure him and I am not sure she was ever told I had him put to sleep as the communication in the vets office she was at the time was very poor or at least it seemed that way. When she heard about all the tissue he did sneeze out I am sure she felt this was a success which maybe it was as it could have been an infection from a dead tumor or pieces if dead tumor inside that caused his downfall or it could just have been the cancer as either one could cause that swelling and terrible infection. My vet felt it was just the end stages of the cancer but then again he had no experience with Neoplasene and my calls to Dr. Scanlon's office never got answered so I am not sure she ever even got the messages. It really doesn't matter which it was as there was no way he would have survived that infection and the fact that the left side of his face was so damaged by it.

When we were doing the neoplasene I was very hopeful and really in favor of trying it and I am not upset that I did as there really was not much else to do except more radiation and I had decided that the Palliative treatment he got was all he would get of the radiation and was thankful it was done with IMRT as he had no side effects except a dry eye. But hindsight has me thinking if another dog of mine got nasal cancer I would not try the neoplasene simply because of the fact that a piece of dead tissue could be stuck inside and cause a terrible infection or just the wound left behind when the tumor falls off could cause the infection. Infections are even a large risk when the tumor is on the outside of the body and falls off as it leaves a big crater of a wound which is why no one should try using it without the help of a vet.

I doubt if I would ever give it orally as it seems a lot of dogs that get it that way go off their feed and have digestive issues but that is just how I feel. Dash's great love in life was food so I did not want to risk him loosing that (my goal was time with quality of life). I would be willing to try neoplasene on a tumor such as a mast cell tumor that I could see and be able to treat the wound once it fell off. I can think of 4 other dogs Clancy, Nickey. Emmitt and Cyrus that all got the neoplasene and they to did not survive. I am not saying it is not possible that it could stop the cancer but just that I have not known any one with this type of cancer that went into remission from it.

Knowing everything I have learned since that day I was told Dash had nasal cancer the thing I would do differently would have been to contact Colorado State and do the cyberknife treatment. I knew about cyberknife in humans but when Dash was diagnosed I could find no one using it on dogs so was lucky to find IMRT Maybe had I done the full 15-20 days of IMRT he would still be alive? I really don't know nor do I spend time thinking about it as I made my choice then stuck to it.

To be honest I do not regret any of the choices I did make as my goal was more time with him and for it to be a good quality of time and I got that. Based on what I knew at the time and how much time he did survive with good quality of life I feel I made the right decisions for both he and I but just like life in general with hindsight yes I would do things a bit different if there ever was a next time, but I hope to God there is no next time.

My Mom had died of Stage IV nonsmall cell lung cancer a few years before Dash developed Cancer and I learned a lot from her and the most important was about quality of life and the fact it is OK to stop the fight when that is gone. Because Dash was such a fun loving active dog I do believe he would have felt like my Mom had he been able to tell me.

The best advice I can give you or anyone else is to learn of the options you have then base any treatment on that, what your dog can tolerate and your overall goal. It does not matter what anyone else has done you have to choose what feels right for you and your dog as you alone have to live with the decisions. If this had happened to my other dog I probably would have not done the IMRT as though even at 14 she is in great health she HATES vets and the stress of everything would have been to much to ask of her. Dash could handle it as he was such a happy guy and after getting him past the fear of vets he had when I first got him he did well at the vets but even he on the last day of 5 days of IMRT did not want to go with the tech so I know in my heart that the 15-20 days might have been more then he could do. More then I could do too as it was stressful as they can die during it.One night he was inside almost 3X the normal time and it backed everyone else there for treatment up yet no one came out and said anything to me and I was was thinking maybe he had suffered a cardiac arrest or some other afwul effect and I was very stressed ..turns out they were doing some new Xrays and such as the oncologist was really interested in his case being he was his first palliative IMRT for Nasal cancer.

sagesmom I made a mistake as it was not the coconut oil I used as the dressing but Raw Honey. I know Coconut oil can be used that way too and have used it in the past but the dressing I used was the RAW HONEY (not the honey most of us use but true raw honey from the health food store), Dash has been gone a year and sometimes it is hard to recall doses or exactly what I did but after I had posted that I smacked my head and thought it was raw honey not coconut oil.

Both of you please know you are not alone in this fight. I do not know you or your dogs but I know what it means to love dog and I know too well the hurt of loosing a dog so know I am here in spirit with you both. I find some comfort in thinking that Dash did not die in Vain that what I learned maybe of help to others. Prayers being sent to both of you and your pooches. Jan

In loving memory of my good boy Dash gone from earth for a year but forever in my heart. Thanks for the good times buddy R.I.P and enjoy your pancakes with Grandma!


Last edited by Dashdog; 10-06-2010 at 01:39 AM..
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2010, 10:05 AM
 
15 posts, read 32,337 times
Reputation: 10
Default Pictures of Sage

Here are some pictures of Sage.

I predicted right. The swelling on the top of his nose busted open last night.

Dashdog - How can I tell if it is infected? Should I try to put peroxide on it? What does septic mean?
Attached Thumbnails
Nasal cancer-imgp8044.jpg   Nasal cancer-imgp8047.jpg   Nasal cancer-imgp8048.jpg  
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2010, 12:16 PM
 
60 posts, read 88,701 times
Reputation: 22
Josie's dad,
I am so sorry that you and your Josie are traveling this terrible road we call nasal cancer. My 6 year old rottweiler passed away from it 6 months ago (i cant believe its been 6 months) and it was a devastating loss for me. I did not treat Sheldon w/ neoplasene or radiation, because of his unsure diagnosis ( the vet also thought it could have been a fungal infection) I only treated him prendisone but found out later that only temporary helped with symptoms, I too gave Sheldon tramodol at night to help him sleep because he did have a harder time breathing at night, I also ended up cutting his dose of tramodol only because it made him so groggy in the morning that he couldnt even get out of bed..Sheldon never had a mass or bump but his left eye began to droop and i was told by the vet that was becasue the cancer was eating away his nerve endings surrounding the eye..So sad..Just know that I am praying for you and your dog, I write this in tears because I was in your shoes once and was so desperate for answers...know that you are not alone in this and please use this forum for knowledge and support, it truly helped me...

Sage,
It sounds to me that the time has come to say goodbye soon, Please take Dash's advice and spend time w/ Sage doing all the things you love together...I too on Sheldon's last day ( i knew a few days in advance when we were saying goodbye) we completed "his bucket list" I took him to all our favorite parks, to visit his canine friends, and then Mcdonalds for his last meal...I took alot of pictures that day, and it took me along time to not cry when I looked at them but now even though that was one of the saddest days of my life I look back and smile..because Sheldon and I were able to say goodbye with honor and love..I will pray and think of you through this tough decision making time..know that whenever the time you choose it will be the right one for you and your family...Sage is very lucky to have an owner like you..
my heart is with you...
xoxo
joyce ( and sheldon from heaven)
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-06-2010, 03:54 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
3,533 posts, read 5,124,505 times
Reputation: 5295
Sagesmom,
I would not put peroxide in the wound as you are around his eyes and mucus membranes. If the drainage coming out is yellow or green or even brown I would consider it an infection. Which type of cancer does Sage have? The bumps look more like the nerve sheath sarcoma that Jazz had removed as it lost the hair and was a round swelling that was pink and red like what he has so maybe his is just the cancer growing outward as it will take the easiest path and often that is growing out so it might not be infection it could just be tumor.

Sage's swelling is not as severe as Dash's got as Dash's whole left side of his head swelled up he had a second head!Nor did Dash's loose the hair. I think I would have the vet look at Sage. My concern would be the area between the two spots also opening up thus leaving a much larger wound.

When Dash's started to open I called the vet and took him in as the vet was thinking he might be able to clean it up a bit or remove some of it surgically .. debulk the tumor and buy more time but when he saw it it was as I already knew too infected and large so there was nothing to be done so we discussed putting him down but the vet understood I needed to say good bye and took him home with antibiotics and pain meds if he needed them. He told me call me when YOU are ready to do this. So don't feel that if you take him to see the vet the vet will say Oh you have to put him down right now as it is your decision not the vets. But having the vet look at it and even discussing the end may help you come to terms with it. My friends 15 yr. old border collie had seizures for a few months then one night she developed a huge nose bleed to they dragged her in to the vets and the vet felt there was nothing they could do so they took her home for one last night and spent the night with her just loving on that old girl and it was very important that they had that time and made taking her in the next day to put her down easier.


Septic means the infection spreads into the blood stream and goes from a localized infection to a body wide infection. The condition is called sepsis. Sepsis is a killer and any infection any where in the body can cause it. As the sepsis continues different organs like the kidneys, liver, lungs, heart go into failure and it is not pretty. Working in a hospital I have seen many people die from it as once it takes hold it is very difficult to stop it. We actually have a program called slaying sepsis where if you come into the ER with certain signs of infection they run a battery of tests that tell if you are becoming septic then hit you hard with antibiotics to hopefully prevent it and save your life.

Dash's infection was so overwhelming that there is no way he would not have become septic as I have said all that tissue was just rotten mush and the puss and fluids weeped out non stop. I think we did antibiotics and raw honey dressings for week or two and he ran around active acting like any normal happy dog but it did not improve at all so there was no way he would survive it so I had him put to sleep. I had decided to give him time because of the fact that this could have been a case of the tumor being dead and trapped in there until it opened as there was that large mass of tissue that popped up and fell out leaving a crater in his face ( from the neoplasene) thus the infection but as I said it was so overwhelming and was not responding so maybe it was just the cancer and how it destroys tissue. I will never know but I do know it was time to say good bye and let him go before he became septic. When he took his last breath I was flooded with a sense of relief which as odd as it sounds was how I felt when my mom died after her cancer battle and how most people I have talked to felt too after a cancer death or prolonged illness/death. I think it is a relief that you know they will never feel pain or worry about the end again as it is now past and they are now safe.

But I would have the vet look at Sage and discuss the end with the vet and get his/her perspective. Hope this helps you . Give Sage a big hug from me and Dash would want me to say give him a cookie too!
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top