Nasal cancer (lab, veterinary, surgery, cost)

[socross31]

Jan,
Sorry that I brought you to tears, but, that poem was so beautiful I had to share it, They had put a picture of her in the middle of it. I no longer feel guilty like I did. Though this morning I awoke in tears, we are in Michigan and it is FINALLY getting warmer, last night we had the windows open slightly and this morning we awoke to a much needed rain. But at 4:30 am when I woke up, the rain sounded just like Little Bit licking herself, which actually has been an annoying habit she had, especially after her nose started bleeding. I reached down, and realized she is not there, a small amount of tears, but, then the happy memory of her nose in my face every morning with that "well are ya gonna let me out yet" look. So the happy memories are there, but, I think the tears will be there for awhile also. I sure hope others can gain comfort from that poem. And I probably never mentioned that we still have her brother Smokey, but he is way different, they are both huskey/shephard/collie/ and only God knows what else. While her hair was more like her mother, smokey is all huskey hair, so as a result of that one, he is outside, he HATES the inside. I even tried to bring him a couple nights, and he was in for 5 minutes and ready to go back outside. So, he is not the same as her, and does not even come close to her personality. But, we love him just the same. Ok, I better get back to work. And yes I did get your e-mail. Thank you.........I hope all is going well with Dash, I will for sure keep in touch with this thread. Take care.
Jo-An

[Dashdog]

Jo-An

Glad to hear that you are past the guilt. I can understand your other dog wanting to be outside as 7 yrs ago I adopted a deaf, vision impaired Aussie ( a defect frequently found when people breed merle coated dogs to other merle coated dogs) Her name is Phoenix and she just stole my heart the day I met her. Well Jazz had issues with her I think because Phoenix would stand and stare at her due to vision issues. She also seemed to not really know how to be a dog because she had not been around them.for a year she lived with me and my two and learned how to be a dog.Then when one of my parents dogs died she went to live with them. She has the most beautiful thick blue merle coat but way too much white ( another give away as to the breeding).She prefers to be outside when it is cool or even raining ( So california) .When it gets hot she will come in and spend more time in as my dad has air conditioning.People that come over feel bad seeing her outside in the bad weather but it is her choice as she has a dog door. By the way she is a fantastic dog and she and Jazz seem to have made peace. I spent alot of time there starting when my mom had cancer and continuing to check on my dad who is now alone except for PHoenix and an old cat.Dash likes Phoenix but his loyalties run to Queen Jazz so if she jumped poor Phoenix he would join in to help but alone he is great with her.


We had our first bad nose bleed yesterday Dash sneezed and the blood started pouring it took me a while to get it under control but it did stop and today there has been no blood. He did not seem at all distressed by it and ran around with Jazz trying to lick blood off the floor and walls I think my poor neighbor was more distressed by it. I took Dash outside and he was covered in blood looked like a slashing victim! My Neighbor was out with his dog and got a bit freaked until I told him it was from the nasal cancer.Yes it was hard to see but working in a hospital blood is nothing new to me and as I said Dash seemd unbothered by it and was more bothered by the fact I was trying to stop it and was also wiping it off of him:rolleyes go figure!

I am hoping the oncologist calls tomorrow since he did not do so today so we can get the palliative radiation started this week.Like human cancer treatment there is too much waiting between finding things out and getting treatments started. I will keep this post going as we journey ahead.:

[socross31]

Jan,
My neighbors think that we are cruel to keep Smokey outside, but, they do not realize that his mix of breeds are outside and the happiest outside. When I was growing up we raised and bred full bred Siberian Huskies and they would come in for about a 1/2 hour and be ready to go back out in the snow, summer times (though definitely not as hot as cali,) always too hot for them. They were miserable in the summer, as is Smokey. I was hoping to get him used to being inside, hoping to keep him inside through the winter as he is 14 also, but, I don't think he will convert. Just feel he is too old to be kept outside all winter.

Sorry to hear about dash's nosebleed. That is what happened with Little Bit a week before the 15th (now I have two reasons to dislike April 15th. taxes and the death of my precious pet) She was the same way, I stayed home from work that day and was in and out of making the decision to put her to sleep or not, (which we decided not to do at that time) and she was pretty much oblivious to the bleeding, just like dash more annoyed with my following her around with a towel to put her head on and a kleenex to wipe her nose. When she sneezed so bad and spewed blood, I ran to grab a towel and the vinegar and water to clean it up and when I got back, she had it all licked up . (yuck) unlike you, I work at a desk at a computer all day, blood is not one of my strong points. the day she bleed all over the house, I almost threw up a few times. Good thing my sisiter in law (she works at the vet, practically runs the place) was there, to help clean it up, cuz I probably would have added to it.

Ok enough chatting, keep me posted on Dash's progress. Would love to help you through this process. Let me know if you would like my personal e-mail address, to contact me personally.

Take care and give dash a hug for me.

Jo-An

[Dashdog]

Dash has had 2 great days as there has been no nose bleed either day and he sounds alot less congested. He just seems to be breathing alot easier and sleeping very peacefully. All of this after Sunday's horrible nose bleed.

I thought I would put his picture here so you could see the dog behind this story. He is quite a handsome boy and has alway won people over with his wiggle butt. My guess is as a puppy they cropped his tail so when he wags Mr stumpy you get the whole butt wiggle like an aussie.He was a year old when I adopted him so I know nothing about that first year of his life. He loves food, people, dogs and yes even Cats. When my cat had oral cancer and could not groom herself Dash took over her grooming being the fine gentleman he is.He is a great dog and hopefully I can buy him some more quality time. I am still waitingto hear when we start the palliative radiation as it should be this week but they have not called yet so tomorrow I will call them.

Jo_AN. I can imagine people think it is cruel to keep Smokey outside and I am against people getting dogs that they plan to just keep outside but I do know some dogs prefer to be outside and would be miserable if we tried to keep them inside. When it is the dogs choice such as Smokey and Phoenix there is not alot you can do about it except learn to tune out the people that think it is cruel. If you ant to give me your e-mail address that is fine as it is nice having someone to talk with that can understand what you are going through. I belonged to a lung cancer message board when my mom was sick and for whatever reason they did not allow people to have contact off the board However me and two other women I got to know well did find a way to contact each other.Though my mom and their husbands have all died we have remained friends as we went through a horrible thing together. Thanks and yes Dash will get a hug from you tonight, though he wishes you had said give Dash a cookie from me!

Take care, Jan

[socross31]

Jan,
He is beautiful. And looks happy. I did not know we could post pictures, so I will add two that both sum up Little Bit, her beautiful smile and the fact that whether or not she would admit it how very spoiled she really was.(never mind, they won't upload) And believe me we do tune out people about smokey, cuz he was NEVER meant to be outside. We got him in November (in Mi starting to get cold ) and he was inside, but, when we got close to spring is when Tom's ex wife decided that Jeremy (tom's son) could not keep Little Bit, so, in about March (not so cold) Smokey got put outside (and he was happy as an ant at a picnic) cuz, both dogs inside would have tore my house apart. Tom and I decided last night though, that we are going to try and bring him in everyday throughout the summer and hopefully by fall he will like to come inside for good. I just don't want him outside during winter anymore, he is Little Bit's brother and they are obviously the same age, his hips are getting the usual shephard hip problems. (plus he was hit by a car when he was about 2 years old) Anyway I will send you my e-mail address. Hmm can't get picture loaded, it is not on a website

[Dashdog]

Dash had his first radiation treatment last night. He did ok and seems fine. The experience was a bit odd as the clinic is in the process of building their own radiation room so for the time being they use a human facility a few miles away in the after hours. They give you the address and tell you to come in the back lot and only use the back door. You sign a paper saying you understand this as it is that important to the place!

I get down there at about 6:45 ( appointment is 7:15 but since I live 30 miles away and it is rush hour traffic I error on the side of being early) I pull into the back lot of this huge industrial building. It has suite numbers on the dozen of doors and garage type doors. I don't have a suite # just an address! Not one of the businesses has a name anywhere in the back. There are some trucks from some of the businesses and a few cars so I decide to park by the cars as the other places are all closed so I figure the cars must be the vets and techs and 3 had people sitting in them.

I am thinking Ok which door do I use? Then I am thinking what if the cops come bye doesn't it look odd to be sitting in the back lot of closed businesses? Then I started laughing thinking it seems like a big drug deal is about to go down or I am waiting for my secret married but no doubt very good looking lover to arrive. A back door opens and a tech in scrubs comes out with a cat and delivers it to a car. Then he wanders over to see if this is Dash and says he will be back when it is time and walks over to get a dog from another car. Now I am really laughing as I am thinking this is what it must have been like in the times of illegal abortion It just seemed to have this feel of being illegal. Turns out the radiology place does not want the pet owners inside so the vet has to do it this way if he wishes to use their equipment and being state of the art equipment he does what they expect so his patients get good care. Your only contact is with the tech.

It was a bit odd. Tonight I will bring Jazz along and take her walking while I wait for Dash to get his treatment, Then we get a 2 day break for the weekend and after that have 3 more days. I will let you know how it all goes and what if any side effects we come across . Hope all have a good weekend!

[Dashdog]

Dash had his last radiation treatment this evening..YIPPEE we are done! He did not want to get out of the car and go with the tech so I am glad we are only doing the 5 day palliative care rather then the 20 day definitive treatment.

He came out wearing a scarf that says he is a cancer survivor. In 10-12 days he will get a check up by the oncologist but as of now we have had no side effects. I think it usually takes a few weeks to develop the early ones so we shall see what the next couple of weeks hold. He is eating, going on walks and acting 100% normal. No more nose bleeds and his breathing is so much better as he does not pant all day or snort at night. He still gets his Poly MVA, Co Q10. DHA and piroxicam and now also gets a gel for dry eye in his left eye. He is not crazy about that .

I am not expecting alot of side effects since he was done using the 3-D linear radiation so less healthy tissue was damaged. I will keep this post updated from time to time so anyone else dealing with nasal cancer can follow Dash's story. My other dog Jazz just had her blood rechecked and her liver enzymes and WBC are all back to normal and tomorrow is her 12th birthday. The vet figures it was some bug or liver infection.For now life is back to normal. Life is once again good.

[Katie1]

Glad to hear the good news!!

[Dashdog]

Dash is now 12 days post palliative radiation and we saw the oncologist for a check up today. I left that appointment knowing I made the right decision in doing this treatment. I feel there was higher power involved as this oncologist was not the one my vet had sugested, he did mention him but felt I should use one down where my dad lives that is doing a clinical trial on different doses of radiation for nasal cancer. Well my vets office gave me the wrong phone # and the vet at the place I called talked to me for quite a while and he told me to go see the oncologist I ended up using as he said the guy is tops in his field and was also alot closer to me 30 miles verses 120 miles that the one doing the clinical trial is.

Anyway I think I mentioned the 3-D linear radiation in an earlier post. It is also called Intensity Modulated Radiation Therapy or IMRT. At first it was just offered if I did the 20 day definitive radiation but the vet was impressed that I knew what it was. I think he has been waiting for a chance to use it in the palliative ( 5 day) treatment and saw I would be very open to that thus that is what Dash got. He is the vets Guinea pig and the vet said they had alot of fun planning it and doing the treatments.It is some what star wars like as they used 7 beams of radiation coming from seven different angles . It is cutting edge for vets so is exciting as you can give a higher dose with less side effects. Today he showed me the histograms they did and the tumor got 100% radiation and the brain got 0%. Non of the right eye was in the radiation field and only 50% of left eye was. The places that have used IMRT in definitive radiation are seeing dogs go past the 1-2 yr survival times and are quite hopeful.

Our oncologist seems very optimistic that Dash will live past the 6-8 months that palliative treatments usually see and into the 1 yr +. Of course he could be wrong and he may only survive a few months or even less but they are very hopeful. If this happens it could help change the way this oncologist treats nasal cancer as he said why put a dog through 20 days of radaition and the side effects involved if 5 days of IMR gives similar results and little if any side effects? If this happens Dash's illness will not be in vain as he will have helped other dogs that are facing nasal cancer in the future.

The vet said we can add chemo which I will not do as I am not a fan of chemo as it has been my experience that it usually weakens the whole body too much to allow for recovery in too many cases. He also said we could add antiangiogenesis drugs to the plan( they are drugs that inhibit the tumor from forming its own blood supply so it dies,avastian is a huge one in humans)This I am interested in as it would all be pills that are well tolerated as a matter of fact the piroxacam they have Dash on has antiangiogensis aspects to it so I will keep him on it and being a non steroidal anti inflammatory it is helping with arthritis as he is so much friskier now. Having just dealt with lung cancer in my mom and working in a hospital I believe the future of cancer treatment will be in the anti angiogenesis drugs, the biological drugs like Tarceva and the linear radiation and that hopefully before too long chemo will be a thing of the past.


I have friends ask how I could put Dash through this? Well I can say as of right this moment his life has not changed except he is breathing so much better so not snorting all night and is sleepling at night, the piroxicam has the added benefit of making his joints feel good so he is acting like a young pup not an old man.He has had no nose bleeds since the one before we started treatment and he has had no side effects ( yet) chances are if he has any they will be minor. If anything his life has improved and as I said he may be helping some other dog down the line by being this vets guinea pig.Once again I will say I feel there is a higher power involved and believe that what ever happens is meant to happen.Dash does remain on his POLY MVA, DHA and Co Q10 and continues to drink his willards water.

I will continue to give updates so anyone that is facing this cancer can see our journey and hope it will help them make decisions. By the way Dash does accept prayers made to that higher power on his behalf! Jan

[Dashdog]

Yippie!!! 3 weeks post the IMRT radiation now and so far no side effects except the dry eye on the left but we knew that would happen and he was started on drops during treatment. Dash is doing great and his breathing is so quiet.