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Old 03-31-2009, 06:10 PM
 
55 posts, read 97,233 times
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Thanx Woof and Ocarmom,

I had regular xrays taken and they were clear...So was the regular scoping of the nose, only about half the length of his nose.

Woof, if Hogan were to bleed out I would let nature take it's course. Peace for him is my primary concern. However, as we all know dogs lick their bloody noise. This could cause vomiting and that is not an easy way out...

Rod
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
3,403 posts, read 4,480,282 times
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Dogmomof11,
Thanks for the concern when you saw my posting here. Dash is doing Ok . I do worry as that swelling is back and it is higher up now and he also tends to sneeze the neoplasene out more often then not now so I don't know If enough is getting in to do any good. But he went an a very long walk today and hung in there ok, was exhausted afterwards but it was a hot day too.I am doing my best to take him to all his favorite places to make sure he has lots of days he enjoys to the Max. He tends to woof in joy when we get back in the car to go home and has a big doggey grin on his face.

I can imagine how hard it is to come to this site right now as it does remind you of Coco and I do understand the leaving the blood spot you found in the car.It is so hard to loose a really great dog and even harder to get rid of that last reminder. I still have Maddies collar and dog tags and she has been gone for 13 yrs but I can not let them go as they are a piece of her.

Rod,

Is Hogan bleeding out of both nostrils or just one? I would not worry so much about him licking the blood as there is probably alot more going down the back of his nose and into his throat and if he vomits it will be due to that.. Dash had his Xray and his rhinoscopy done on the same day that way I was only charged for one anesthesia. The Xray did show shadows one in the left nasal cavity right below the eye and another above the left eye in the upper sinus.

My vet had given me an option he could do the scope using a rigid scope but that would only get so far or he could call in a specialist from LA that had a flexible scope meaning he would be able to see alot more . He said sometimes if he himself does it they then have to call in the specialist anyway so you end up paying for two. So I opted to get the specialist on board right away thou it cost more it was cheaper then having to do two scopes. They found the spot under the eye and did the biopsy. The report came back adenocarcinoma.

Since my vet was unwilling to give neoplasene a try as he could not find any vets using it I went to plan two and met the oncologist. He felt looking at the Xray that the upper sinus was most likely trapped mucus from being blocked off. When I decided to do palliative radiation we did the CT. It was necessary to do the radiation especially the IMRT and it was also to make sure the cancer had not spread as if it had spread there was not alot of sense to treating it with IMRT. ( this was April-May)

In Oct. When Dash started having problems again and had the huge infection and bleeding was out of both sides I asked about doing a CT to see if the cancer was back and the oncologist said the only way to know that for sure was the rhinoscopy as a CT will show something there but we will have no way of knowing if it is infection, swollen tissue or cancer. At that point thanks to Cyrus's mom I had found the holistic vet down in the LA area that was using neoplasene so I did not do any more testing but instead we saw her and started the neoplasene as nose drops. I have no regrets about no more testing as the radiation was palliative and I figured he had been through enough procedures and here we are 5 months later and he is still with me.


It is easy to spend thousands as testing and any treatments are not cheap as you already know. I am lucky in that my regular vet always trys to keep costs down and I appreciate that so much. I think he is rather impressed by the decisions I have made about treatment and the fact Dash is still with me because of them. I am hoping this opens his eyes to more alternative treatments such as neoplasene for people that can not afford radiation or chemo. He tends to be a bit more open minded then most as does the oncologist. I am lucky there as I do believe that there are plenty of alternative treatments out there that do work as well as conventional treatment and are usually a fraction of the price too so it is nice to be working with vets that are willing to consider it. The holistic vet is great too.So Dash's team is # 1 in my eyes.


There really are not any blood tests that will come back and say " yup it is nasal cancer" so lab values do tend to be normal. I think the Von Willebrands disease does not show up on the usual blood tests and requires specialized blood test. I know that if the vet is still so uncertain I myself would be asking for those tests as I have found with both human and animals you have to be the advocate and be in the drivers seat and that often means insisting on tests.


I will leave you all with a photo from last week of Jazz and Dash enjoying a beautiful California day at the park. Have a good evening and I hope for Hogan it is a non nose bleed night. -Jan


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Old 03-31-2009, 09:50 PM
 
55 posts, read 97,233 times
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Thanx Jan,

Hogan bleeds from one nostril...When I first saw this I was happy thinking one nostril is better then two..After researching I longed for two nostrils!

I too am glad Dash is hanging in there..Hogan loves other dogs. I'm sure he would love to play with Dash and Jaaz.

I have lost 3 dogs to the beast. I GSD and 2 rotties. My male rottie Shamus, was only 6. Still not over that one. He was 130 pounds when he was well. He really should not have been in a rotties body. He hardly barked, never growled, didn't know how to mate, and anybody could come up and pet him. It was easy to know the right time for him. He stopped eating. I have all my dogs old collars, dog dishes, bed mats. I am not looking forward to adding Hogans collar and dish to my collection..I usually bring in another dog into the house when my current dog reaches senior status.
The older teaches the new guy the ropes..Where to do their business.etc..Also made the new dog feel alittle at ease with another dog...Ok enough mushey stuff..

Will see what tomorrow brings...Night all...

Rod
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Old 04-01-2009, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,503 posts, read 13,212,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogansfriend View Post
Thanx Jan,

Hogan bleeds from one nostril...When I first saw this I was happy thinking one nostril is better then two..After researching I longed for two nostrils!

I too am glad Dash is hanging in there..Hogan loves other dogs. I'm sure he would love to play with Dash and Jaaz.

I have lost 3 dogs to the beast. I GSD and 2 rotties. My male rottie Shamus, was only 6. Still not over that one. He was 130 pounds when he was well. He really should not have been in a rotties body. He hardly barked, never growled, didn't know how to mate, and anybody could come up and pet him. It was easy to know the right time for him. He stopped eating. I have all my dogs old collars, dog dishes, bed mats. I am not looking forward to adding Hogans collar and dish to my collection..I usually bring in another dog into the house when my current dog reaches senior status.
The older teaches the new guy the ropes..Where to do their business.etc..Also made the new dog feel alittle at ease with another dog...Ok enough mushey stuff..

Will see what tomorrow brings...Night all...

Rod
Dear Rod,

What a softie you are. Dogs bring out so much good in people. I was out on my walk this morning and saw my dear neighbor with his little terrier. The dog was halfway in the pond frantically digging something out of the mud. It was filthy dirty and behaving like a maniac as usual.

We were chatting away and after watching the dog's antics for several minutes, I finally said, "Um, did you know what you were getting into when you got Fred?" As he pulled the dog out of the mud, he said, "No. You never do. They are like children."

And we love them that way, don't we?

W.
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:14 AM
 
55 posts, read 97,233 times
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Jen,

I have seen Cops, Truckers, even boxers cry when their dogs get sick or die. People might even feed their animals before themselves. What is really sad today is the amount of people who are forced to give up their pets because of the economy.

Hogan is still kind of mellow today, no bleeding either. Since Hogan should have been a bomb sniffing dog, really sniffs everything. I thought something, grass,stones,glass might have got stuck in his snout. It still could be,but there has been no sneezing, or breathing problems. Also the vet did give him a limited scoping.

Has anybody had a dog that did have an infection but the only symptom been on and off spout bleeding..?

Anyway, I bought Neo synephrine spray. When he bleeds again I'll try it. Off course the spray will cause him to sneeze. This of course will really send a wad of blood out. Hopefully though it will make the bleed time shorter...

Rod
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Old 04-01-2009, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Some place very cold
5,503 posts, read 13,212,413 times
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Does anybody know what causes nasal cancer? My friend's dog was a beagle, so it sniffed everything and had a nose that was close to the ground. My friend also uses moth balls, has the perimeter of the house sprayed for bugs, and has always stayed up to date on annual vaccines and used Frontline.

Any thoughts?
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
3,403 posts, read 4,480,282 times
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They do not know for sure what is responsible for nasal cancer. You do see it more frequently in dogs that were around smokers but many of the dogs on this thread were not around smokers. The holistic vet said she thinks it is due to the constant irritation of sniffing the world as dogs do and that often having a weakened immune system is enough to trigger it. Dash had been very stressed from my mom's cancer and all the time we spent with her during that period besides being a sponge to all my stress during that period and stress weakens the immune system. He is a dog that sees the world via sniffing and try as I might it is impossible to avoid toxins. I think the fact our world is so much more toxic now adds to the problem. Dash did not get his bordetella down his nose as my vet was never able to get it down so just gave him shots and he and Jazz were on a reduced vaccines so did not get shots every year. They eat Innova so are not getting all the cancer causing chemicals that some foods have. I had read a book about preventing cancer in dogs and tried to do the things it said even no plastic bowls yet both dogs got cancer...go figure! Like most cancers no one knows for sure what is causing it.
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:08 PM
 
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All I know is every dog I owned as a adult died from cancer. All the dogs I owned as a kid, died of some kind of trauma, were given away or were stolen...Of course I never had a dog that reached the age of 6...

Day 3 hogan no bleeding...anybody want to bet Sat after the vets are closed Hogan does his thing..I mean he bleeds when we took him to the vets...Bleeds all over the exam room he was in. The second the vet walks in the room, the bleeding stopped. Hogan was left over night at the vets. He was scoped at the vets..No bleeding...When we picked him up and saw me he of course went nuts...Still no blood..Go figure..
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Old 04-01-2009, 02:27 PM
 
55 posts, read 97,233 times
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What could be going on with Hogan, as the tumor grows it breaks the blood vessel. The vessel bleeds then coagulates. Then it grows into the next vessel etc...The process keeps repeating. At some point other symptoms should surface, ie sneezing, breathing problems, or swelling...

Rod
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:22 PM
 
55 posts, read 97,233 times
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Well, that didn't last too long...Came home after picking up my wife. Hoag got alittle excited appeared to snort and blood came out. Did not chase him around this time. I have red blankets all over my bedroom where he sleeps. It appears to have stopped. Sure wish this thing was properly dx...This is really worse then not knowing. I get a feeling this thing is buried real deep. I will not watch Hoag suffer..This really a no win situation...The long goodby, in dog time...**** this sucks....
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