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Old 07-13-2008, 12:35 PM
 
104 posts, read 436,815 times
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"Sometimes it is so hard to think Dash is sick and could be gone at any time as he is so normal acting." that's the key phrase for dogs and humans, isn't it? looking forward to hearing the results of your tuesday visit.
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Old 07-15-2008, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
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Default Metronomic therapy

Dash saw Dr. Ayl today and while everyone was excited to see Dash he was less then thrilled to see them. He just layed and looked at Dr. Aly like " not you again!" Dr.Ayl kept making nice to him but he remained unimpressed.

Dr. Ayl thinks he looks great and feels the sneeze and nasal discharge is too early to be the cancer being active again so he feels it is from tumor cell die off and possibly an infection since it is yellow to tan in color so he has put Dash on 10 days of Clavamox. He also did blood test that should be back tomorrow.

If the blood test looks ok and once we get the infection cleared up he will put Dash on a low dose of Cytoxan. I think it is every other day. Cytoxan in a larger dose is used as a chemo drug but at this lower dose and with the piroxicam which he is already on it is Metronomic therapy which is antiangiogenic. Later we could add a third drug but he usually adds drugs one at a time so if the dog has a reaction he knows which drug it is.

Dash was first checked out by an intern and I think she was a little confused as to why she was not seeing the side effects you see with radiation until Dr. Aly told her Dash is one of his special projects that got IMRT. He is hoping they can get a few more IMRT patients so his one Intern can do a paper on it. Dash and Tillie could end up in a veterinary journal if that happens

When the intern brought Dash back from his blood test she told me Carlos said Hi so I am glad that he got to say Hi to Dash in person as Dash liked him.

Dash could not wait to get in the car and head homehe does not like to be popular with " those people". Wow tomorrow will be 10 weeks since he finished the IMRT. It does not seem possible as the time has passed way too fast.

Talllmomma. I do hope Tillie is doing as well. I have a question since your user name is tallmomma are you tall? I ask because Dash has a tallmomma too as I am 6ft tall.

Well time to go see what Dash is up too. The past couple days he has begun to watch animal planet again. He had stopped a few months before we got the news he had cancer. He loves shows with dogs , cats and lions. He has added a new twist to his TV viewing as he has been using his nose to push the ottoman closer to the TV then gets on it and lays down to watch. When he sees something he likes he stands up wags is stump of a tail and barks and whines then turns to look at me like " wasn't that the greatest?!" Jazz thinks he is nuts as she has never been into watch TV. He is one silly dog.
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:38 AM
 
104 posts, read 436,815 times
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glad to hear that dash seems to be his old self.

after tillie's first bout with cancer involving surgery and 20 doses of radiation she was on some sort of antibiotic almost constantly due to infection - clavamox or baytril. and she is now showing signs of the same yellow/tan dripping you report for dash so i'm guessing she's got the infection thing going again too. there is also a little gunk in her left eye, don't know if that is dry eye or somehow related to radiation bur it is familiar from her last time, too. will ask dr ayl about all of this when we see him monday morningl
will dash need monthly blood tests in order to test effects of drugs and allow him to continue on them? and does that mean more visits to ventura? i will try to arrange for
that to happen closer to home for us if need be, assuming that the local vet can pass along blood test results.
and ps, i'm not too tall but i am taller than tillie's other parent so i get to be tall momma. add smiley face here!
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Old 07-16-2008, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
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Yes Dash will need blood test every month he already has been getting them with the piroxicam. My vet here in Santa Barbara does the blood tests and faxes the results to VMSG.


Hope Tillie gets a good check up on Monday!
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Mobile Al.
34 posts, read 97,642 times
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Your dog seems really strong and I wish you the best. I could never imagine how hard it would be to find out there was something wrong with my dog. Last summer he had some major back problems and had to spend a month and a half in his kennel and only got out to go for short walks. It killed me to think he could have ended up paralyzed.
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
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Centinmobile,

I am glad your dog recovered. While it is not easy knowing a dog or person has a terminal iliness or even a disability I am sorry to say that it is something most of us will have to face one day. Sooner or later all things do die despite our not even wanting to think about it.

While I thank you for the comment I hope the comment " Your dog seems really strong " is for Tillie and not for Dash. Tillie has been through alot so I will agree she is a strong dog with a very dedicated owner. Dash on the other hand has not had to go through anything too terrible.

I decided to post here and describe our journey because when I learned he had nasal cancer a nurse I worked with told me she had a dog with nasal cancer and she decided to put him to sleep rather then go through the horrors of radiation. She told me there were alot of bad side effects and she was told the dog would go blind and she could not do that to the dog so decided to just put him to sleep. Others told me the same thing.

Rather then listen to everyone I decided to check with an oncologist as cancer treatments change so fast as I learned with my mom , she was one of the people that benefited from the drug Tarceva that had just been released after she did her first chemo.

I really feel a higher power guided me to this oncologist as he decided to try a newer radiation called IMRT on Dash (if I was willing )even though I was only doing palliative treatment which is 5 days of radiation. IMRT meant he could have a higher dose with a more direct hit on the cancer and less side effects. He has not really had side effects except the dry eye and eye drops take care of that. He did not even have to have his fur shaved or a tatoo marker for treatment. He does have a possible nasal infection which is probably from the tumor cell die off. Yes he may go blind in that eye as radiation that involves an eye being in the field usually causes a cataract to form in 9 months. We are not sure that will happen since only 50% of his eye was in the radiation field. If he is still alive at 9 months I will be too happy to be uspet by a cataract since his is just considered palliative treatment.

I did it to make him more comfortable which it has done and hoped I could buy him some more time too.But the real goal was been the quality of his life which has improved so it has been a success and I am glad I did this rather then listen to everyone else. He has been having a wonderful summer and I have been enjoying having him act so normal again.

I hope that by sharing Dash's experience it will let others that learn their beloved dog has nasal cancer see that there are treatments that can improve quality of life not destroy it. The antiangiogenic therapy should be well tolerated too and hopefully will start replacing chemo in most cancer treatments. In a way Dash is a guinea pig for future nasal cancer suffers and their owners. Things would never progressin treatment if it was not for guinea pigs like he and Tillie.

So there is nothing too strong about Dash he is just your average dog that happened to fall into the hands of an oncologist that was wanting to try the IMRT. In other words for a 2nd time in my life I ended up in the right place at the right time.

I think both he and Tillie and another nasal cancer dog I know of named Guy all accept your best wishes and any prayers. Thank you
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Old 07-17-2008, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Mobile Al.
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Your so welcome my comment meant to be about both dogs. I know one day I'll have to tell my dog bye but I hope it is at the end of a long, healthy life and that like you said has quality and no pain. It's hard to imagine having to tell the dog you could tell everything and no matter how much you complain he still sits there by your side and acts like he's listening to everyword bye. I know it will be hard to leave him home when I goto college in three years, but I know I'll make frequent visits home. The best of luck to both Tillie and Dash.
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Old 07-19-2008, 01:12 PM
 
104 posts, read 436,815 times
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dashdog-

i was shocked to hear that someone put their dog to sleep rather than treat it for cancer for fear of side effects and possible blindness. tillie's eye doctor told a story about an owner whose blind dog found his way around the house, from the dining room, through the kitchen and back. the owner was puzzled; are you sure the dog is blind, she asked. the doctor said he was sure. but how can you be sure, she continued. i'm sure because i removed his eyes. OK, so sight is not the main sense for our canine friends.

tillie is doing well but does seem to have the runny nose you said dash had it's a yellow-y mucus but almost constant. will see dr ayl tomorrow and see if he prescribes anti biotic for possible infection. will keep you posted.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:36 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashdog View Post
just learned my 11 yr old border collie springer spaniel mix may have nasal cancer, we are awaiting the biopsy results but after looking with a scope my vet is pretty certain this is the case.

I am interestind in hearing of anyone elses experiences with it and what treatment if any they sought as i would like to make the best decision for my dog as he has been such a great dog. I would like to have him around for as long as possible as he and my other dog are what got me through my mom's recent battle with cancer and her death but i know i don't want time if it comes at the expense of quality. thanks.
doesn't seem like surgery is a good option unless its a cancer thats isolated and does not spread any where else in the body.
My rottie had a cancerous tumor on her hind leg that was the type of cancer that is isolated and does not spread. I had it removed.
My 12 year old sheltie had throat cancer. They were getting a biopsy of the tumor when it started bleeding and they had to remove most of the back of his tongue ect to stop the bleeding.they claim it was the good cancer that is receptive to chemo. I put him on chemo. He did not act as though chemo bothered him. Did not lose hair and ran around the yard as usual.his bark was like a dog that had been de barked from his surgery.in the end he had to be put down. He did live about 9.5 more months with chemo. Here they had no way of knowing when the cancer was in remission. One day when i took him in for his chemo he had an infection. Out of ignorance i did not know thats normal with cancer patients, and i thought that his body was telling me he had enough. I stop treatment and the cancer took off like a bat out of hell. I honestly can't say i would ever do it again in an old dog. Sonny had the personality that he would lay still for the chemo to drip into his blood stream. My rottie would not have done that. She would have had to be sedated even if it had been attempted.
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Old 07-20-2008, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Santa Barbara CA
4,922 posts, read 11,231,722 times
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Tallmomma, I hope that Tillie gets a good report at her check up tomorrow. Dash is already sneezing alot less and the drainage coming out is now a fraction of what it was and clearing up too. Can tell he is feeling better too as he wanted to hunt lizards on our walk today, Hasn't done that in quite a awhile.

I hear you on blind dogs as I fostered 5 homozygous aussie pups that were rescued when the breeder was going to drown them. All 5 were totally deaf and all had vision issues, one was totally blind as his eyes had not even formed, yet nothing stopped these guys and people that met them were amazed to hear they were deaf with very little or no vision. The totally deaf blind one was amazing as he never had trouble finding me or folllowing me all over. He would bump into things and sort of bounce off and turn directions as it never stopped him. Happy as could be. Of course these puppies have never known different. I think it may be more difficult for a dog that goes blind but they too adjust.


I have met several other people that decided to put their dogs with nasal cancer to sleep rather then deal with it and when they told me that was what I should do I knew I could not just do that so that is what made me go meet Dr. Aly and see what he could offer and I am so glad I did.

Here's to Tillie and Dash, Nasal cancer survivors
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