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I train my dogs in Rally, and had planned to begin Agility competitions this summer with my Am Staff mix. We had a dog aggression issue, and she had to be put down. It broke my heart. I have a Star Pei mix with Hip Dysplasia, and he can do Rally, but is having more trouble with his hips as he ages, so Agility is out of the question, and Rally is quite limited. I also have a hound mix with ADD, and I have been minimally successful at getting him through basic Rally moves - He is an absolute sweetheart, but Rally is a huge challenge, Agility is out of the question. Both are older dogs.
I am retired. I live on acreage, and walk the dogs a few miles daily. We have a fenced yard of about an acre under fence. My dogs are my main hobby, and losing my Am Staff has really been an adjustment.
My 3 (now 2) dogs were all rescues (the onset of dog aggression was both sudden and unexpected based on the previous 6 years with the AmStaff), and I have fostered dozens of dogs, but I am going to go with a breed of dog with a breeder who can trace the lines, health, and temperament history, and not just get "a purebred" dog or adopt an unknown history mutt from the shelter.
My "wish list:"
When the time comes - and I am about two years out - I want to get a dog I can train and compete in Rally and Agility events, but I have some preferences for what I want in a dog. I know I will likely be compromising on one or more items on this list below, but here is what I am looking for (not in order of importance - just a list):
- mid size to small large dog - 45-60 pounds
- short, single coat, with relatively little shedding
- Mid-level energy
- low dog aggression
- good with children
- quick learner and able to do complex tasks
- eager to please
- ok as a house-dog (shedding/energy level/ destructiveness all play into how I would see a good house dog)
- good breed history of health, temperament, and longevity
Of the breeds I am sort of researching, none of them match up perfectly with my "wish list" but all of them match more rather than less of the traits I am looking for:
- AmStaff - but I want to be very careful about the breeder and breeding lines. I adored my AmStaff, but I never want to have to put down another dog that is not very aged and infirm.
- Border Collie
- Australian Cattle Dog
- Brittany
- Poodle
- Smooth Fox Terrier
I would be interested in breeders and trainers giving me some input on the above breeds for what I want to do training wise (compete in Rally and Agility). I am also open to suggestions of other breeds to consider.
We have a woman in our club that has Field Spaniels, although they are smaller with more fur than my preferences, hers do well in agility. I would consider Doodle mixes, but know nothing about them. I am not interested in German Shepards, Belgium Mals, Labs, Goldens, or Dobies even though they are all capable of what I am looking for in dog training and interaction, they are bigger than I want to deal with as I age.
In general, I like terriers, but am not married to finding a specific terrier breed. I have concerns about keeping up with the coats of the Collies, but I like the Collies I have met and interacted with. My son has a Boxer that is a wonderful dog, but I would want one that is on the smaller end of the breed standard (they are pretty big dogs!), and am not sure that would be the best pick for an Agility competitor (shortened snout).
Thanks in advance for your thoughts and input. PMs are fine too - I really want to make an educated decision for my next dog and get as close to a perfect fit as I can.
Not sure why the sudden dog aggression from a pit bull was a shocker. Let me guess, “it had never been aggressive before”? It should have been expected. With the exception of the pit bull, I think all the dogs on your list are good. Doodles generally are dumber than a box of rocks which is why you don’t see many in competition events. You might also consider a Spanish Water Dog or Lagotto Romagnolo both can be hard to find. You cannot go wrong with a poodle, wicked smart, non-shedding, biddable, and they won’t make people cross the street or scratch a class to avoid you. Brittanys are great dogs if you don’t mind shedding. Wheatens and Kerries are great but you could definitely run into some dog aggression problems, moreso with the Kerries but at least neither breed will kill you or the neighbor’s child. I compete with terriers and while they certainly take a lot more work than the more biddable breeds, they are fun to work with. If you can live with a bit of shedding, English Springer Spaniels are pretty smart and biddable. You could also consider the smooth coated Collie. The agilty class, just like the obedience ring, is dominated by Border Collies. Another breed I see in obedience and agility is the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers. A standard Schnauzer is another good non-shedding, smart medium sized dog. Luckily where I take classes, Pit bulls aren’t even allowed.
Not sure why the sudden dog aggression from a pit bull was a shocker. Let me guess, “it had never been aggressive before”? It should have been expected. With the exception of the pit bull, I think all the dogs on your list are good. Doodles generally are dumber than a box of rocks which is why you don’t see many in competition events. You might also consider a Spanish Water Dog or Lagotto Romagnolo both can be hard to find. You cannot go wrong with a poodle, wicked smart, non-shedding, biddable, and they won’t make people cross the street or scratch a class to avoid you. Brittanys are great dogs if you don’t mind shedding. Wheatens and Kerries are great but you could definitely run into some dog aggression problems, moreso with the Kerries but at least neither breed will kill you or the neighbor’s child. I compete with terriers and while they certainly take a lot more work than the more biddable breeds, they are fun to work with. If you can live with a bit of shedding, English Springer Spaniels are pretty smart and biddable. You could also consider the smooth coated Collie. The agilty class, just like the obedience ring, is dominated by Border Collies. Another breed I see in obedience and agility is the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers. A standard Schnauzer is another good non-shedding, smart medium sized dog. Luckily where I take classes, Pit bulls aren’t even allowed.
With the AmStaff, she was "fussy" about some dogs, and completely ok with most - so the dog aggression was known. We controlled interactions outside of the pack very tightly. What was sudden and unexpected was about 3 months ago she started attacking my hound mix, and the attacks quickly progressed in ferocity - It was always connected to a prey drive issue, and it was always her that attacked. The two dogs slept together (their choice) for the last two plus years, and played together daily. After each attack (there were 4 in 3 months), she would nurse on the hound and mother him, but the last attack forced my hand and we put her down for my hounds safety.
I will look up smooth coat collies, Spanish water dogs, and the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever and do some research on them. I had not even thought of a standard schnauzer, but that may be a good fit - as I said, I do like the terriers.
I did not know brittanies were big shedders- good to know.
Well, I sure don't agree with Otto about breed characteristics. Brittanies are beautiful, but tend to be skittish and sensitive, rather than confident and calm.
But, as important as breed traits - more important, really - is the individual dog. Bully types can be A-ok, but they don't have all the instinctual stops that a livestock breed should. Anyway, I think we are treading on forbidden topics here.
I heartily disagree about the Doodles being dumb. Some are, but so are some poodles. OTOH, poodles, as a breed, have long been underrated for intelligence - meaning they tend to be smart. Border collies fit the bill except for two things - they tend to HIGH energy and tend not to be good housedogs (unless the energy needs are met). Bet even some BC are more laid-back. I would do a little googling on farm collies. Farm collies include English Shepherds, Old Scotch Collies, Aus shepherds, and kelpies, I suppose). You'll also find mixes, and some other breed names, as farm collies tend to be bred based on how well they work, not appearance. A little less needy for work than BC.
Aus cattle dogs are nearly up there with BC for energy, and maybe they are are all the way up there. Aus cattle dogs tend to be nippy. They can and sometimes do nip children. Typically not to break skin, but it can be very frightening. You have to be a bit careful about your dog's characteristics. They can be fiercely loyal, and may end up a one-man dog. Aus sheps are a little less needy for work, and they can also be nippy. But I do know Aus sheps who are great house dogs, not neurotically needy for activity, and who aren't strong heelers (thats the part that makes them nip). Aus sheps, actually all the farm collies, can be one-man dogs. They don't have to be, but sometimes . . .
I've known cairn terriers, rat terriers and Jack Russells, but none of the big terriers. Cairns, in my experience, aren't so needy for work, but can put out a lot of energy. Rat terriers are more energetic, and Jack Russells will drive you up a wall with their energy. If you get a Jack Russell, expect to work it.
So, my take on your list would be poodles, farm collies, rat terriers, doodle mixes if they make sense and you can visit with the parents and see other offspring. Personally, I would also look at dobermanns, but you've already said you don't want to go there.
I also wouldn't rule out rescues, but I would be very picky about which rescue I tried working with.
BTW, just a note to add, since you were thinking about the large terriers - in WW2, Airedales were chosen by the British army and police for war dog and police dog work over the Belgian shepherds. Probably a good handful of prejudice involved in that decision, but it still says something about the potential for training.
My Bracco is the most athletic dog I've ever had and she would love agility. She's a pointer but she acts like a flushing spaniel and wants to work in close with frequent contact. She takes direction with enthusiasm.
However, no one would ever mistake her for mid level energy. At least she is not destructive. She needs a lot of exercise and can she ever fly. If she isnt as fast as a sight hound, she isn't far behind them.
That reminds me... if you are a positive trainer, a whippet might be just what you need to meet your criteria.
BTW, just a note to add, since you were thinking about the large terriers - in WW2, Airedales were chosen by the British army and police for war dog and police dog work over the Belgian shepherds. Probably a good handful of prejudice involved in that decision, but it still says something about the potential for training.
My brother had an Airdale many years ago. She was really big though. That may be worth a look to confirm or deny if that breed would work for me. As I said the dogs are my hobby, so I enjoy working and training them more than I am looking for a winner. Winning competitions is not nearly as important as participating in them and hanging with other "dog people."
My Bracco is the most athletic dog I've ever had and she would love agility. She's a pointer but she acts like a flushing spaniel and wants to work in close with frequent contact. She takes direction with enthusiasm.
However, no one would ever mistake her for mid level energy. At least she is not destructive. She needs a lot of exercise and can she ever fly. If she isnt as fast as a sight hound, she isn't far behind them.
That reminds me... if you are a positive trainer, a whippet might be just what you need to meet your criteria.
I am mostly a positive trainer. My last club was positive training to the point of no consequence for bad behavior, and while I think training should be positive, I also think correction is occasionally required, so while I think of myself as a positive trainer, others may not agree with that assessment depending on their framework definition of "positive trainer."
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It should have been expected. With the exception of the pit bull, I think all the dogs on your list are good. Doodles generally are dumber than a box of rocks which is why you don’t see many in competition events. You might also consider a Spanish Water Dog or Lagotto Romagnolo both can be hard to find. You cannot go wrong with a poodle, wicked smart, non-shedding, biddable, and they won’t make people cross the street or scratch a class to avoid you. Brittanys are great dogs if you don’t mind shedding. Wheatens and Kerries are great but you could definitely run into some dog aggression problems, moreso with the Kerries but at least neither breed will kill you or the neighbor’s child. I compete with terriers and while they certainly take a lot more work than the more biddable breeds, they are fun to work with. If you can live with a bit of shedding, English Springer Spaniels are pretty smart and biddable. You could also consider the smooth coated Collie. The agilty class, just like the obedience ring, is dominated by Border Collies. Another breed I see in obedience and agility is the Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers. A standard Schnauzer is another good non-shedding, smart medium sized dog. Luckily where I take classes, Pit bulls aren’t even allowed.
