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Dude, we get it. You hate pits. However, it doesn't change the fact that they are not ALL evil as you constantly claim. They used to be nanny dogs back in the day. You just hate the breed, so you spend all your energy bashing it.
The Nanny Dog Myth Revealed
UPDATE 5/21/13: Two years and nine months after the Nanny Dog Myth Revealed was first published, BAD RAP, a major pit bull advocacy group publicly announced that it will no longer support the Nanny Dog myth because it endangers children.
Where did I post a pit bull attach news story. I shared a personal experience that happened to a family member and it was his own dog that he raised from a puppy which did not make the news. I never said all pit bulls need to be put down either.
If this site does not want pit bull or pitbulls to be mentioned then they need to do what they do with other words they don't want here and asterisk them.
Right. I own Pits and was not offended. Sharing your feelings (even fears) on a breed isn't bashing a breed.
Just last night this young "Pit Bull mom" (yes that's what she was calling herself) claimed they were originally bred to protect children and be family dogs. No breeds were bred as nannies that I've ever heard of and very few dog breeds period were developed as family dogs/companion breedsin history. They had no legit source. Too lazy to pick up a book and research a breed that they are trying to "educate" others on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sawyersmom
Dude, we get it. You hate pits. However, it doesn't change the fact that they are not ALL evil as you constantly claim. They used to be nanny dogs back in the day. You just hate the breed, so you spend all your energy bashing it.
Back in what day? Can you please show me the nanny dogs and when this was?
The poster clearly doesn't like Pits, but why on earth would anyone claim a breed of dog was used as a nanny?
LifeIsGood,
I meant to reply sooner to your the post and wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01
I didn't want one originally. I put a deposit at the shelter for a Yorkie, When I came back the owner had found him in time so he was no longer available. I wanted a small dog since it was my first dog and I don't need a big tough dog to show off or scare people or make people think I'm tough.
Most of the small dogs were already reserved. Mostly the shelter was filled with unwanted Pit bulls many dumped from Miami Dade county where they are not allowed.
I looked around and saw a Chihuahua trying to get out of it's dog run, Very friendly and happy trying to squeeze thru, but he couldn't get out. I brought it to the attention of the people there and they said not to worry. He was healthy, only a year and half old and was given up when his owner moved. I took him home that same day and fell in love with him and the breed. 6 months later I saw another one that had been abused and had been there 30 days and was last call so I went and saved his life.
I can imagine the cute little one trying to squeeze out. That's how my parents were, they were not looking for a Chi / another dog at all.... but they gave one a home who really needed it one of the best dogs ever. People say Chis nip and are yappy, I've heard of people saying how nasty they are towards small children, not this dog all. She has an awesome temperament.
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Chihuahuas are very smart, loving, loyal and learn fast. The second one stole food off my table twice, I put him in time out and after the second time he learned. He had been starved by his previous owner, and thrown over the shelter fence after hours because they did not want to take him to the overnight drop off location. People think they are yappy and in my backyard they are, that is all they have, their bark. When I take them for walks they do not bark at anyone, my smaller guy loves kids and when he sees one come over he rolls on his back so they can rub his belly. He's smart that way because animals in the wild do not put themselves in such vulnerable positions but he knows little kids are no harm.
That is so sad, but at least he ended up with a chance at life. I think dogs that are people friendly social type tend to do that, my dogs roll over for kids and adults, for pets and stuff, some times added wiggling of body while they are on their back. When my middle child was toddler my parents Chi would do similar, but she would like calmly lay there for him to rub her instead of all the wiggling, but they got to be very bonded.
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My question is more of "why would anyone get a pit bull as their first dog". Is it for protection, to be tough, you think they are cute (and a lot are, not a fan of the big blockhead ones)
I see. Just by observation it does depend on the person.
Including protection / guard and some are dismayed to find Pita (often, but not always) make horrible guard dogs, some accept it and others take it out on the dog
Some want a tough / tough looking dog
Some people for dog fighting
Some have a family member / friend has one for a pet, they like that dog and want their own. Or maybe when they were a child a family member / friend had one, so want their own now that they are an adult.
For some it is a little like your Chi, they didn't want one but liked a specific dog they saw at the shelter, or one shows up on their doorstep and they ended up keeping that dog, or maybe they adopted a puppy Pit mix but breed was not apparent the young puppy was a Pit mix.
I don't think a Pit is a good dog for most 1st timers or less experienced owners. Especially without researching and also adopting, it could go either way, they could get the easiest dog or they could get the worse and hardest dog. Also if for their 1st the got a really easy one they might assume all Pits are like that one, but get something totally different the next time around.
I should state I own real APBTs, not Pit mixes, not unknown heritage, not "pet Bulls", not bully breed mutts, the trade off for a healthy, stable, structurally sound, drivey Pit Bull can often be dog aggression / dog to dog issues. Of course this doesn't mean all APBTs will be dog aggressive, it is more likely, but more importantly even without being outwardly DA or reactive, less likely to back down from fight or stop once started. So that's something to keep in mind even with a non aggressive / dog social Pit Bull. It is also not to say that mixes, byb/per bred dogs or bully breed mixes won't ever be dog aggressive either. People need top reality consider the possible traits of any breed they get and be responsible.
LifeIsGood,
I meant to reply sooner to your the post and wanted to thank you for taking the time to answer.
I can imagine the cute little one trying to squeeze out. That's how my parents were, they were not looking for a Chi / another dog at all.... but they gave one a home who really needed it one of the best dogs ever. People say Chis nip and are yappy, I've heard of people saying how nasty they are towards small children, not this dog all. She has an awesome temperament.
That is so sad, but at least he ended up with a chance at life. I think dogs that are people friendly social type tend to do that, my dogs roll over for kids and adults, for pets and stuff, some times added wiggling of body while they are on their back. When my middle child was toddler my parents Chi would do similar, but she would like calmly lay there for him to rub her instead of all the wiggling, but they got to be very bonded.
I see. Just by observation it does depend on the person.
Including protection / guard and some are dismayed to find Pita (often, but not always) make horrible guard dogs, some accept it and others take it out on the dog
Some want a tough / tough looking dog
Some people for dog fighting
Some have a family member / friend has one for a pet, they like that dog and want their own. Or maybe when they were a child a family member / friend had one, so want their own now that they are an adult.
For some it is a little like your Chi, they didn't want one but liked a specific dog they saw at the shelter, or one shows up on their doorstep and they ended up keeping that dog, or maybe they adopted a puppy Pit mix but breed was not apparent the young puppy was a Pit mix.
I don't think a Pit is a good dog for most 1st timers or less experienced owners. Especially without researching and also adopting, it could go either way, they could get the easiest dog or they could get the worse and hardest dog. Also if for their 1st the got a really easy one they might assume all Pits are like that one, but get something totally different the next time around.
I should state I own real APBTs, not Pit mixes, not unknown heritage, not "pet Bulls", not bully breed mutts, the trade off for a healthy, stable, structurally sound, drivey Pit Bull can often be dog aggression / dog to dog issues. Of course this doesn't mean all APBTs will be dog aggressive, it is more likely, but more importantly even without being outwardly DA or reactive, less likely to back down from fight or stop once started. So that's something to keep in mind even with a non aggressive / dog social Pit Bull. It is also not to say that mixes, byb/per bred dogs or bully breed mixes won't ever be dog aggressive either. People need top reality consider the possible traits of any breed they get and be responsible.
I don't care what breed, it is scary when two dogs escape from their yard to confront you. It's even scary if it is two chihuahuas. Little dogs can bite and start fights, just like the big guys. Dogs rarely see a straight line, like a fence, as a boundary to their territory. Many consider the street in front of their house, and maybe the front yard across the street as their business. If they are coming over their fence, they are thinking you are in their territory.
I don't think pitbulls are unreliable. I think they are very honest. The problem is that a lot of dog owners are oblivious to the body language and signals of their dog, regard less of what breed the dog is. I would bet that all of those surprise pitbull attacks were announced well in advance, maybe with warning given for weeks or even months preceeding the attack.
I can't even count how many times a clueless dog owner has assured me that his dog just wants to play when the dog is stiff legged and giving the stink eye. That is not a dog who just wants to play and at some point that dog is going to atrack. When he does attack the owner will be mystified, swearing the dog has never done that before. Yet, the dog has given warning after warning.
Last edited by oregonwoodsmoke; 03-29-2018 at 11:41 AM..
Anyone who has fenced dogs who escape the fence has a potential problem. If the dogs are escaping to confront pedestrians, the potential problem could be serious. Yet, objections are most likely to be met with assurances the dogs are friendly and when an incident finally occurs, the dog owner will be mystified, even though the dogs gave warning over and over.
I don't think pitbulls are unreliable. I think they are very honest. The problem is that a lot of dog owners are oblivious to the body language and signals of their dog, regard less of what breed the dog is. I would bet that all of those surprise pitbull attacks were announced well in advance, maybe with warning given for weeks or even months preceeding the attack.
Actually pit bulls are bred to NOT show signs of an impending attack (the "no-tell") as an advantage in the fighting ring, to catch their opponents off guard. Many times, they even initiate friendly, play type behavior before attacking (wagging tail, play bow, etc.) -
" The name “pit bull” is associated with dogs displaying these phenotypes.13,14 These fighting dogs were bred and trained not to display behavioral signals of their intentions so that they would have an advantage in the ring. For this reason, pit bulls are frequently known to attack “without warning.”10 . - https://www.researchgate.net/publica...y_Vicious_Dogs
(Emphasis mine)
"TARYN BLYTH, Dog Trainer, Animal Behaviorist, DipCABT
No one is saying that a lot of Pit Bulls can’t be “successfully” socialised with other dogs. Many socialised from puppyhood are very friendly and outgoing with other dogs. The problem arises if and when fighting behaviour is triggered. Even if the Pit Bull does not start the fight, getting into conflict with another animal will often trigger their “grab, shake and kill” response.
“Normal” dogs engage in “ritualised” forms of aggression when they come into conflict. This involves lots of noise, but no real damage. However, when Pit Bulls fight they engage the shake-bite/kill-bite part of the predatory sequence with often fatal or near fatal results. There is seldom time to intervene to rescue the other dog before serious damage is done.
When Pit Bulls engage in a fight, far from this inducing an aversive state of mind (most dogs are in a defensive, survival mode during fights), opioids and dopamine are released in their brains making them feel really good - this feeling is so pleasurable that they will often seek out this behaviour again. In the same way that a border collie is built to feel really good when herding sheep, Pit Bulls are built to feel really good when fighting.
Due to the opioid release during fights, Pit Bulls do not feel pain and so fight on regardless of injury - trying to stop a fight is incredibly difficult.
When “normal” dogs fight, they usually respond to appeasement behaviour from their “opponent” i.e. as fighting is not designed to kill, but to resolve conflict without serious harm, one dog may “give in” and display behaviour which will cause the other dog to back off. Pit Bulls do not respond to appeasement behaviour during fights as this would have been counterproductive in the fighting pits and has been bred out of them.
In my experience Pit Bulls have a very low reactivity threshold - this means that stimuli at low intensities which would be ignored by other dogs are often triggers for aggressive behaviour in the breed. They also have very high arousal levels - they become physiologically aroused very quickly and to extreme levels.
One of the huge problems is actually the fact that the breed is extremely friendly and when well-socialised they are usually quite tolerant and very sweet. What people don’t realise is that the danger does not lie in the fearful, defensive under-socialised Pit Bull (as is so often the case with other breeds), it lies in the dog who will be triggered not into defensive behaviour, but into a predatory/fighting behaviour which is enjoyable and carried out in a happy state of mind - therefore a happy, outgoing dog is in this case no guarantee that one will not have a problem. In fact, due to the sociable nature of the dogs and apparent easy-going temperament, Pit Bulls are often put into situations which they are not equipped to handle - this is how so many tragedies occur. Pit Bulls - Just like any other dog? | Taryn Blyth
This is why so many pets have been killed by pit bulls that they have lived with or played with at dog parks or daycares for months, if not years, with no previous incidents of aggression. This is why so many people, especially children, are killed by the sweet loving family pit bull that has been a model pet for years.
Actually pit bulls are bred to NOT show signs of an impending attack (the "no-tell") as an advantage in the fighting ring, to catch their opponents off guard. Many times, they even initiate friendly, play type behavior before attacking (wagging tail, play bow, etc.) -
" The name “pit bull” is associated with dogs displaying these phenotypes.13,14 These fighting dogs were bred and trained not to display behavioral signals of their intentions so that they would have an advantage in the ring. For this reason, pit bulls are frequently known to attack “without warning.”10 . - https://www.researchgate.net/publica...y_Vicious_Dogs
Totally incorrect.
They give warning signals. I've prevented several fights from jumping off due to this. Sometimes I was unable too, but clearly knew what was about to happen. Managing multi Pit Bulls wouldn't be possible if they gave no warning.
Once about 13 or 14 years ago I had a new female, adult I brought into the home. She hadn't been introduced to my other female yet. I got up the next morning, came downstairs with my resident female as always. Unbeknownst to me the new female was loose in the main floor. So when I came down the stairs and hall to kitchen and she was standing there it ended up in a fight between her and my resident female. Of course I saw the signs but couldn't prevent it. They didn't play bow or do any non sense like that. I saw trouble, not playfulness, my female saw a strange dog in "her" house. There's a big difference between when my dog wants to play or fight, as she enjoyed playing with other dogs. Signs- Stiff body, locking eyes, tail raised and raised hackles, it happened too quick to stop them though.
I do pretty good on management, so few incidents.
Last time 5 years ago, in the morning during feeding and letting dogs out, I could tell when two females were about to start once again (females ugh). I knew didn't have time to physically stop them, when I yelled at them the older one stopped dead in tracks. But the younger one still charged and grabbed her, which then had to physically separate them as fight had started.
Range of behavior is obvious screaming, whining, staring, tail raised, tail stiff, body stiff, tail wagging (different fashion than playful, happy or friendly), if leashed or tethered then they might whine and bark and pull towards the other dog, some get so upset they foam. Anyone with dog experience can recognize this type of behavior. If one has experience with terriers / prey drive you note the same signs when they want to get small game / prey animals. I think I mention before I have also observed this with dogs driven to take down man in Malinois I've seen whining, screaming, body shaking and tail wagging. The same I see in a Pit that wants to fight a dog or another terrier that wants a rat.
Not making those signs couldn't give an advantage in the pit. How do opponents catch each other off guard when they are both acting like they want to play? If it is just one of the dogs, well if a dog comes up to a fighting dog trying to play that fighting dog isn't going to care to be fooled, it isn't a dog social dog it is going to grab that play bowing dog. Even a fight driven dog aggressive Pit that isn't actually a pit fighting dog doesn't care if another dog wants to play they are going to go for the fight, even a dog being submissive and showing don't want a fight isn't going to prevent a DA pit from attacking. Them trying to fool each other? That's hilarious. Its likely a dog running up to the other would play bowing would still be attacked and isn't going to make the other pit want to play. So the play bowing dog is putting their self at a DISADVANTAGE to be grabbed first and giving the other dog the advantage. Considering people appeared to want dogs that "rocket out of the corner" and "scratch hard" according what is said by the people who've actually bred them for fighting it sounds really non sensical to say otherwise.
I've got lots of pics and videos of Pits being shown as well, clearly displaying signs of dog aggression. Not trying to trick one another. I should have a couple of GIFs also I can look for.
I've never had play bow or social behavior initiate anything other than play in all my years of ownership.
Maybe research what you're actually commenting on. I'm always open to learning too, so don't get me wrong.
However, never heard of any documented roll or match where this happened. I'm anti dog fighting and don't promote it or glorify it (like some owners), but I have done extensive research on all aspects of my breed and of course the years of observation of dog to dog interactions with this breed helps.
Btw, these dogs are not trained to fight. They are either going to fight or not. For those that will initially fight, they are either going to continue to fight or not. You can't make a dog want to fight or them want to keep going or them to fight a certain way. It is genetics. Now you can encourage them or you can teach impulse control and discourage them, but it is still working with genetic traits and core temperament.
This is what was said about Badger Badger was a very impressive individual; he was very fiery even as a young dog.
Fiery and playful are non synonymous at all. You will find many mention of Pits being fiery or hot. Not just with pit dogs owned by dog fighters like Badger, but with Pits bred and used for show, legal dog sports or hunting. You will still find hot AmStaff to this day also, even if less frequent. You don't hear things like, he/she was very good at tricking his opponents by pretending to play.
Badger hit him in the middle of the pit and buried up in his stifle.
This was the first time Badger was ever in "the pit" / a fight. This is commonly what you would read if you actually did real research, instead of reading someone's silly idea. This is what they were bred for. To go straight away, not a ritual to fool each other.
Responsible Pit owners and breeders understand this. Yet not all are DA and those who are social making signs of play its because they actually want to play. An owner shouldn't be worried a Pit making social and playful cues is trying to trick another dog. Though they should pay attention to body language and understand other cues that are precursor to a fight.
Quote:
"TARYN BLYTH, Dog Trainer, Animal Behaviorist, DipCABT
No one is saying that a lot of Pit Bulls can’t be “successfully” socialised with other dogs. Many socialised from puppyhood are very friendly and outgoing with other dogs. The problem arises if and when fighting behaviour is triggered. Even if the Pit Bull does not start the fight, getting into conflict with another animal will often trigger their “grab, shake and kill” response.
“Normal” dogs engage in “ritualised” forms of aggression when they come into conflict. This involves lots of noise, but no real damage. However, when Pit Bulls fight they engage the shake-bite/kill-bite part of the predatory sequence with often fatal or near fatal results. There is seldom time to intervene to rescue the other dog before serious damage is done.
When Pit Bulls engage in a fight, far from this inducing an aversive state of mind (most dogs are in a defensive, survival mode during fights), opioids and dopamine are released in their brains making them feel really good - this feeling is so pleasurable that they will often seek out this behaviour again. In the same way that a border collie is built to feel really good when herding sheep, Pit Bulls are built to feel really good when fighting.
This I can completely agree with. I've probably had to explain this 100s of times. Dog fighting intentionally is illegal and some offenders have been lucky not to have an intentional fight, so they have no clue - but all they have to do is watch a terrier kill a rat or prey animal (legal and video easy to find) to understand what their dog might do if a fight happens. Grab, keep hold, shake, ect. Many people get it, even if fir Pit is dog social, they understand fights can happen in the right situation. Unfortunately others don't, you hear my Pit is the sweetest, my Pit wouldn't hurt anything, so if a fight happens lr it can between dogs of any breed they are totally unprepared for their dogs instinctive fighting style - which often means not being able to stop a fight without serious injuries.
If one actually reads the whole post, the last part contradicts the first part. There would be no advantage to have a dog that play bows, submits or displays any sort of friendly behavior because the other Pit isn't going to respond to this, the DA behavior won't be curbed.
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