Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-22-2018, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,680 posts, read 2,931,105 times
Reputation: 4809

Advertisements

I live very, very remote and take my three dogs on daily hikes. When the youngest chases a rabbit, he seems to run to the next county. Disconcerting trying to find a lost dog.

Today I was thinking that a shock collar that kept them within eyesight would be great.

Again, I live very very remote.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-22-2018, 08:52 PM
 
Location: on the wind
22,831 posts, read 18,112,983 times
Reputation: 73993
There are collars that are supposed to train out an unwanted behavior like barking...but you'd have to be very careful about exactly what you were teaching the dog to do or not do. If you shock the dog at the wrong moment for the wrong reason, it might teach the dog that you are not something it wants to return to. Could really backfire. Teaching a bomb-proof recall and "leave it!" sounds better IMHO, but you would have to impose it closer than 250 yards. Returning to you has to be more "rewarding" than whatever wildlife the dog happens across while it's loose. Its going to be tough to outcompete a running rabbit! I am biased....don't use collars, I use voice and rewards, and I anticipate the dog's triggers.

Maybe do some reading about training upland gamebird dogs (pointers, setters, spaniels) would help? They are supposed to range at some distance ahead of the hunter, but not too far or too close.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2018, 08:56 PM
 
1,201 posts, read 793,379 times
Reputation: 3188
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
I live very, very remote and take my three dogs on daily hikes. When the youngest chases a rabbit, he seems to run to the next county. Disconcerting trying to find a lost dog.

Today I was thinking that a shock collar that kept them within eyesight would be great.

Again, I live very very remote.
First, they are REMOTE TRAINING COLLARS! :-)

This is supposed to be one of the best - https://www.amazon.com/Educator-Vibr...+remote+collar In addition to getting this in different distances, you can get a 2-Dog version.

If you’ve not used a remote training collar before, find a skilled trainer to help you get started. You can’t just slap the collar on and start giving them a stim for getting to far away. I would train the skill first without the collar and then use the collar to polish up the off leash work. A training correction with the collar should not be able to be seen by a bystander (meaning the dog should not show any outward signs of being corrected such as a yelp, start, etc.) - don’t use a sludge hammer when a chisel will do. What you are wanting to teach is the recall. That starts on a 6’ leash, then a 12’ leash, then off leash in a controlled area, then a 30-40’ leash in areas with distractions. Until your dog is well trained on the recall, NEVER issue the “come” command unless you can enforce it. Every time you say “come” and they don’t *have* to, you are training them that coming is optional. It should never be optional. When the dog is consistently coming when called, put the remote collar on and let the dog wear it several days without using it. Then go back to the 6’ leash and start layering the remote over it. When determining the level to work with, put the collar on the dog and start at 0. Go up 1 or 2 increments at a time and give a stim. When you first notice the dog feeling it (head tilt, scratch, look of ��, looking around) back down one level. That will be your training level. Practice, practice, practice, Call the dog to “Come”, helping with the leash if needed and hold the stim until the come running and then release it. Think of the collar as providing communication, not punishing (although there may at some point be a need for that). Before you can punish, the dog must understand what is expected of them. Be sure to make a big fuss over coming to you. Remember to proof as well. This means testing the dog in a safe way/controlled environment - giving the dog the opportunity to fail and then giving firm corrections for poor choices. Also, I would advise tracking collars for your dogs as well as microchips and tags with your number. The tracking collars allow you to track them with a phone app. HTH!

Last edited by OttoR; 03-22-2018 at 09:10 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2018, 09:12 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 1,957,683 times
Reputation: 4167
The training electronic collars can help with this - if they are used correctly.

First, make sure you get a collar that has a better range. In the situation you describe, the basic collars will be out of range before you can react.
Second, (maybe this should be first), we ARE talking about the electronic radio collars where you, the human, holds a transmitter and you push a button which sends a signal to the dog's collar.
Third, be prepared to respond quickly.
Fourth, know exactly at what level (the transmitter should have several levels. Mine has 9.) -- at what level the dog will respond. Only go higher if the dog does not respond. This can happen when a dog has focus on game. It can take a higher level of stimulus to get the dog's attention. If you have gone up two levels from what it takes to get a minimum response at rest, then you should assume that one of the following is why:
  • the collar isn't on the dog correctly
  • the batteries are too low and need charging
  • the dog is already out of transmitter range
Fifth, you need to respond QUICKLY to the dog when they get the chase focus. The quicker the better.
Sixth, you may need to give the whole procedure time - perhaps months - while you wait for the opportunity to get it right. You need the chase to happen, which can be unpredictable. You also need, as I said, to catch it quickly - which can be surprisingly hard.
Seventh, you don't need more than a one-second burst. Anything more than that and you are doing it wrong. You can repeat the less than one-second burst, if needed, but remember that moderation is your friend.
Eighth, keep the dog in mind. DO NOT overdo things. If you have a sensitive dog an e-collar can give you a bad result, with the dog becoming fearful and timid. Be aware of the dog's response and character. Be cautious in this regard, rather than bold.

That should do.
H.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-22-2018, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
18,812 posts, read 32,253,997 times
Reputation: 38559
This reminds me of when I found a dog one time when I was living in a mountain town in WA. The dog was a bear hunting dog and got lost. It had a radio tracking device on it's collar and the owner ended up pulling up into my driveway - days before GPS. But, I'm sure there's some type of tracking device you could get for the dog, too.

The dog I found was exhausted and hungry, so I fed it and read the bear hunter the riot act, but he calmly explained to me how the dog loved it's job, and when I saw the dog happily greet the hunter and jump up into his crate in the truck next to his buddies, I had to calm down and admit he wasn't mistreated.

Anyway, it might be another option - to attach some type of tracking device on the dog, too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2018, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
13,627 posts, read 12,247,401 times
Reputation: 20023
In your situation, I would use a Dogtra Pathfinder.

It connects via an app to your phone with Bluetooth. You can see where the dog is, and issue a shock to correct him if needed.

If your dog knows the recall command, and gives you the finger since a pile of elk doo-doo is tasty and smells good, you can shock him and force the point.

Some people will tell you about how careful you need to be with shock collars. They aren't wrong, but if all you're reinforcing is recall, it isn't rocket science.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2018, 09:23 AM
 
2,319 posts, read 1,957,683 times
Reputation: 4167
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMoreSnowForMe View Post
. . .

Anyway, it might be another option - to attach some type of tracking device on the dog, too.
That is a great idea! Good suggestion!

FWIW, I always keep GPS units on my dogs when we are out. I find it to be worth the expense. I posted a couple of blog entries on my experience with various brands of GPS devices, and put it here on CD so my fellow dog people could have them available.

http://www.city-data.com/blogs/1453956-hiero2.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2018, 09:33 AM
 
1,727 posts, read 1,971,740 times
Reputation: 4899
Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoGuy View Post
I live very, very remote and take my three dogs on daily hikes. When the youngest chases a rabbit, he seems to run to the next county. Disconcerting trying to find a lost dog.

Today I was thinking that a shock collar that kept them within eyesight would be great.

Again, I live very very remote.
Teach a solid recall. Work with a reputable trainer who will give you some basic exercises and teach you how to progress and proof each step.

There is always some type of blowback with shock collars. Success depends on the skill of the trainer/handler; very very few trainers have the timing and knowledge base to successfully use a shock collar. And the dog knows when the shock collar is on. What if there is an emergency situation one day and you need to recall your dog, but your dog isn't wearing the shock collar- there is no guarantee it will recall to you because you haven't trained the recall- what you have trained is that when the dog chases rabbits it gets shocked.

Far better to just teach a solid recall from the start so you can call your dog off the rabbit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2018, 10:51 AM
 
12,016 posts, read 12,624,709 times
Reputation: 13420
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllisonHB View Post
There are collars that are supposed to train out an unwanted behavior like barking...but you'd have to be very careful about exactly what you were teaching the dog to do or not do. If you shock the dog at the wrong moment for the wrong reason, it might teach the dog that you are not something it wants to return to. Could really backfire. Teaching a bomb-proof recall and "leave it!" sounds better IMHO, but you would have to impose it closer than 250 yards. Returning to you has to be more "rewarding" than whatever wildlife the dog happens across while it's loose. Its going to be tough to outcompete a running rabbit! I am biased....don't use collars, I use voice and rewards, and I anticipate the dog's triggers.

Maybe do some reading about training upland gamebird dogs (pointers, setters, spaniels) would help? They are supposed to range at some distance ahead of the hunter, but not too far or too close.
No some of these collars are sold as invisible fence and the dog can't go beyond a certain point.

If you need to use suck a torture device i would make sure the dog understands to go back if it continues to shock him if he goes forward.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2018, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Southern Colorado
3,680 posts, read 2,931,105 times
Reputation: 4809
Smartphones are big brother torture devices, not going to carry one while hiking. Just no.

GPS units used on bear hunting dogs would be awesome but I am on a tight budget after Hurricane Irma hit my two rental units.....and *won*.

I want my dogs to be able to chase rabbits within reason. Nothing makes them as happy as hunting rabbits and stuff. Their grin never stops when out and about. The jack rabbits can fly for a long time and finding the dog can take even longer.

Thanks for the information and ideas so far. Unless I missed something, I failed to find a device that would automatically work at a set distance. With three dogs and challenging terrain, they can easily fall out of eyesight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Pets > Dogs
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top