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The owner said puppy ate but did not actually see puppy eat. Went to take the puppy outside she was wobbly, falling down, and possibly vomited and urinated. Took puppy to vet, the vet suggested puppy had a partial seizure. Ran a test and then gave puppy overdose of Valium (0.37ml) when should have been 0.37mg. Than gave 0.15 Flumazenil to reverse the Valium, problem. Test results, BG=223, ammonia=13(WNL) and no major abnormalities on blood work. The vet suspected cause to be liver shunt without giving x-ray or any other tests to verify. They then recommend taking the puppy to a neurologist for more testing. The neurologist ran more tests found nothing related to liver shunt. Not sure when puppy goes into a coma but neurologist outcome was that they were not able to complete physical and neurologic evaluation because of the puppy's mentation (obtunded/comas). Can liver shunt be ruled the official cause of death, microvasculature dysplasia or other congential deficits if not found. Can owner sue me for puppy not being healthy at time of sale since vet could not officially rule this as porto-systemic stunt, microvasculature dysplasia, various types of infection, an immune-mediated inflammation, or other conenital deficits when none of these was diagnosed or found?
anybody can sue anyone for anything. The question is what will be the outcome of the suit. Based on what you've written and the 'innocent until proven guilty' policy, doesn't seem like there's enough evidence to prove guilt/responsibility.
Then of course there's what's posted on social media which can cost a whole lot more than money and the necessity of proof is negligible.
My 9-week old puppy weighing 1.63 fell ill and passed the next day. I heard her go in the kitchen to eat her food but not sure if she ate. I then went to take her outside, the puppy was suddenly unable to walk well and was falling over. She acted liked she was going to vomit and then vomited as evidenced by vomit on her mouth. And she was unable to hold her head up. I then took her to the vet and they did tests and said it looks like she had a partial seizure. They accidentally gave her an overdose of Valium of 0.37ml when it should have been 0.37mg and then 0.15 Flumazenil to retract that. They immediately suspected liver shunt without really looking for other symptoms or causes. Her BG = 223, ammonia = 13 (WNL) which they said was normal but vet explained shunts can sometimes be present and ammonia be normal in which case referral may be needed. I decided to take her to a neurology for more tests. All tests came back normal except ones that could not be accessed for reasons I don't know. They claimed a complete physical and neurologic evaluation could not be done due to the puppy's mentation (obtunded/comas). And based on her history, the puppy have started having seizure after eating. Possible causes for her signs include a porto-systemic stunt, microvasculature dysplasia, various types of infection, an immune-mediated inflammation, or other congential deficits. I'm not understanding why an x-ray wasn't performed to see if liver shunt was actually the cause or not before she went into a coma. Far as I'm concerned they did not provide me with a accurate official report of why she passed. Please help. I want to know if I have enough here to take this to a lawyer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bessnap
The owner said puppy ate but did not actually see puppy eat. Went to take the puppy outside she was wobbly, falling down, and possibly vomited and urinated. Took puppy to vet, the vet suggested puppy had a partial seizure. Ran a test and then gave puppy overdose of Valium (0.37ml) when should have been 0.37mg. Than gave 0.15 Flumazenil to reverse the Valium, problem. Test results, BG=223, ammonia=13(WNL) and no major abnormalities on blood work. The vet suspected cause to be liver shunt without giving x-ray or any other tests to verify. They then recommend taking the puppy to a neurologist for more testing. The neurologist ran more tests found nothing related to liver shunt. Not sure when puppy goes into a coma but neurologist outcome was that they were not able to complete physical and neurologic evaluation because of the puppy's mentation (obtunded/comas). Can liver shunt be ruled the official cause of death, microvasculature dysplasia or other congential deficits if not found. Can owner sue me for puppy not being healthy at time of sale since vet could not officially rule this as porto-systemic stunt, microvasculature dysplasia, various types of infection, an immune-mediated inflammation, or other conenital deficits when none of these was diagnosed or found?
First, you should be getting 2nd or even 3rd opinions from vets, not the folks here. You've got a very technical situation.
Second, so which is it - are you the owner? Or were you the breeder and sold a pup to someone else? Are you considering suing, or are you afraid of being sued?
Yes, I am the breeder and sold a pup to someone. Now they want puppy refund plus vet fees, and over $200 worth for private cremation fee of their choice. The health guarantee contract stated for them to take the pup for a complete examination within 3 days of purchase which they did not. That alone breaks the contract. Also, they contacted me after the puppy had died. They did not notifiy me the day the puppy was administered to the hospital, no confirmed cause of death and nothing to really prove that was the puppy that died.
Yes, I am the breeder and sold a pup to someone. Now they want puppy refund plus vet fees, and over $200 worth for private cremation fee of their choice. The health guarantee contract stated for them to take the pup for a complete examination within 3 days of purchase which they did not. That alone breaks the contract. Also, they contacted me after the puppy had died. They did not notifiy me the day the puppy was administered to the hospital, no confirmed cause of death and nothing to really prove that was the puppy that died.
Seems like a sticky situation. I assume you offer a 1 to 5-year health guarantee? I would insist on seeing the vet report and/or talking to the vet. Then, assuming it wasn't a clear case of neglect or abuse on their part (e.g. really a broken neck) in good faith, I would refund the cost of the puppy. It's the right and responsible thing to do. It's just good business. At 9 weeks old, they only had the puppy a week before it died, correct? Whatever was wrong, it's clear they attempted to quickly get the puppy the appropriate vet care.
Seems like a sticky situation. I assume you offer a 1 to 5-year health guarantee? I would insist on seeing the vet report and/or talking to the vet. Then, assuming it wasn't a clear case of neglect or abuse on their part (e.g. really a broken neck) in good faith, I would refund the cost of the puppy. It's the right and responsible thing to do. It's just good business. At 9 weeks old, they only had the puppy a week before it died, correct? Whatever was wrong, it's clear they attempted to quickly get the puppy the appropriate vet care.
I sure hope they only had the puppy a week, as I consider it irresponsible to release a puppy sooner.
Regardless, the moral ground tack would be just to do the refund, etc. A shrewd businessperson might stick to the contractual obligations. That wouldn't be the kind of person I would do business with a 2nd time - but that may not be at issue here anyway. From the sounds of things, I don't think these people are likely to buy a 2nd pup here.
If you are thinking about paying out, other questions should be considered. How much would an autopsy cost? Was an autopsy done? How much will it cost to get the vet records (shouldn't cost anything, but jic)? How much will a lawyer cost, either to sue, or to defend?
All in all, it might be cheaper to take the hit and pay the vet bills and cremation.
Thanks for your comments. I, from the beginning, offered the owner another pup when she first told me about the puppy being put to sleep. They said they were not ready for another pup at this time. I asked did if they took the puppy to the vet within three days and I didn't hear back from them. Ok, later they decided to sue. I talked to their lawyer and told him that since there wasn't an official cause of death, they not getting the examination within 3 days and not letting me know that the puppy was put to sleep until the next day that I would agree to refund the puppy cost but not pay for the vet bill. I'm waiting to hear back from the lawyer. I was trying to be fair even though I know yes, they wouldn't buy another puppy from me. All the puppy's blood tests came back normal. The vet suggested the puppy had a partial seizure. Seizures happen for many reasons not to be a sign that the puppy was not healthy when purchased.
Thanks for your comments. I, from the beginning, offered the owner another pup when she first told me about the puppy being put to sleep. They said they were not ready for another pup at this time. I asked did if they took the puppy to the vet within three days and I didn't hear back from them. Ok, later they decided to sue. I talked to their lawyer and told him that since there wasn't an official cause of death, they not getting the examination within 3 days and not letting me know that the puppy was put to sleep until the next day that I would agree to refund the puppy cost but not pay for the vet bill. I'm waiting to hear back from the lawyer. I was trying to be fair even though I know yes, they wouldn't buy another puppy from me. All the puppy's blood tests came back normal. The vet suggested the puppy had a partial seizure. Seizures happen for many reasons not to be a sign that the puppy was not healthy when purchased.
That certainly sounds like a reasonable compromise and you did offer already to replace the puppy.
The owner said puppy ate but did not actually see puppy eat. Went to take the puppy outside she was wobbly, falling down, and possibly vomited and urinated. Took puppy to vet, the vet suggested puppy had a partial seizure. Ran a test and then gave puppy overdose of Valium (0.37ml) when should have been 0.37 mg. Than gave 0.15 Flumazenil to reverse the Valium, problem. Test results, BG=223, ammonia=13(WNL) and no major abnormalities on blood work. The vet suspected cause to be liver shunt without giving x-ray or any other tests to verify. They then recommend taking the puppy to a neurologist for more testing. The neurologist ran more tests found nothing related to liver shunt. Not sure when puppy goes into a coma but neurologist outcome was that they were not able to complete physical and neurologic evaluation because of the puppy's mentation (obtunded/comas). Can liver shunt be ruled the official cause of death, microvasculature dysplasia or other congential deficits if not found. Can owner sue me for puppy not being healthy at time of sale since vet could not officially rule this as porto-systemic stunt, microvasculature dysplasia, various types of infection, an immune-mediated inflammation, or other conenital deficits when none of these was diagnosed or found?
What effect did overdosing a tiny puppy have? <— the owners might have a better case against the vet.
One of the tests for a suspected liver shunt is bile acid.
I agree about the overdose and its side effects. They gave Flumazenil to retract the Valium. But whos to know if that did the trick because the puppy later went into a coma...
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