10 year old lab becoming grumpy (vets, skin, cost, effects)

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by Annie53

THIS ^^^ THIS ^^^ THIS!

I have known many dogs over the years that took Tramadol {and Rimadyl} the last few years of their life without ANY negative side effects.

Needing Tramadol for the pains of old age is not a good reason to prematurely end a dog's life.

OP, the sooner you get your dog to the vet for pain control the better.

Same here. Without Tramadol, our Lab will refuse even to get up. With Tramadol, he will run with our 3-year-old Staffordshire.

[bookspage]

I’m sorry he is struggling. I don’t think it has much to do with the puppy
It sounds like he is in some real pain
Of course try to alleviate his pain but please prepare yourself for what you might have to do
Advanced arthritis in dogs isn’t like humans. They can become very scared and anxious, shells of themselves. They don’t understand what is happening
Our dog started to bite towards the end too. He just wasn’t himself
I would urge you to try the meds of course but also to keep in mind that it can be a very painful disease for dogs. Putting a dog down for arthritis is awful but sometimes is the humane thing to do at a certain point
Wishing you and your dogs many many great days ahead

[hiero2]

This is getting to be OT, but I think it important enough to respond. Gabapentin is another drug that is on my "extreme" meds list. I am glad you guys have had good experiences with these drugs, but I stand by what I've said. These drugs are potent. VERY potent. If my vet told me it was a "go to" combo for him (her)? I'd ask for a side of prednisone. This stuff is not aspirin, to be lackadaisically prescribed and used. The sides are real, and they are severe. If you've had a good result, great. Lovely for you. BUT ALWAYS USE CAUTION, EXTREME CAUTION, WHEN RECOMMENDING THESE DRUGS TO OTHER PEOPLE (or dogs!). Tramadol is an OPIOID! It is extremely powerful! Gabapentin is a controversial drug that was illegally promoted by big pharma producers, AND has controversial results. Don't believe me? Start with wikipedia. Research out from there.
Seriously. That is very nice that you've had good results. Don't expect that for other people. These are powerful, and potentially dangerous, drugs. Based on what I've seen, I'm a little surprised at your description of the drug results. But, hey, individual responses vary. I don't mind that. But, I DO ASK, that you respect other experiences.

[TFW46]

hiero2, I also ask that you respect other experiences.

I taught dog obedience classes for 25 years and, in addition to my own dogs, I've seen many older arthritic dogs respond very well to the combination of Rimadyl and Tramadol. I have no experience with Gabapentin and dogs, but if others have used it successfully with their dogs, I'm happy for them. My doctor has prescribed it, from time to time, to treat me and I've never had any bad reaction to it.

If I had the choice of putting one of my beloved dogs to sleep due to arthritis or giving him a medication that some people dont like, you can bet I'd choose the medication. What would I have to lose?

Your continued condemnation of medications that can -- and do -- give arthritic dogs a new lease on life makes me wonder about your agenda.

[E-Twist]

Does he have hip dysplasia? Is he overweight? Labs have problems with that as they age. If he snapped at you I would guess he is in considerable pain. Animals also can get dementia. He should be checked out by a vet. Does he still like car rides? If it is hard for him to get in and out of a car try to find a vet that makes house calls. It is more expensive (I didn't find it to be excessively so) but when my Bouvier was dying I was glad not to have to make him move.

[Ralph_Kirk]

Originally Posted by hiero2

This is getting to be OT, but I think it important enough to respond. Gabapentin is another drug that is on my "extreme" meds list. I am glad you guys have had good experiences with these drugs, but I stand by what I've said. These drugs are potent. VERY potent. If my vet told me it was a "go to" combo for him (her)? I'd ask for a side of prednisone. This stuff is not aspirin, to be lackadaisically prescribed and used. The sides are real, and they are severe. If you've had a good result, great. Lovely for you. BUT ALWAYS USE CAUTION, EXTREME CAUTION, WHEN RECOMMENDING THESE DRUGS TO OTHER PEOPLE (or dogs!). Tramadol is an OPIOID! It is extremely powerful! Gabapentin is a controversial drug that was illegally promoted by big pharma producers, AND has controversial results. Don't believe me? Start with wikipedia. Research out from there.
Seriously. That is very nice that you've had good results. Don't expect that for other people. These are powerful, and potentially dangerous, drugs. Based on what I've seen, I'm a little surprised at your description of the drug results. But, hey, individual responses vary. I don't mind that. But, I DO ASK, that you respect other experiences.

All of us have said, "See your vet." Tramadol is a prescription medicine--it takes the vet's prescription to get it, and nobody here is advising doing anything illegal.

The point of our advise is to emphasize that this is not a minor issue. This is a very serious matter for the dog. We're actually talking about an end-of-life treatment, because without medication this potent, putting the dog down right now would be the humane thing to do.

Tramadol is an opioid, yes, but what does that mean for a dog? These drugs do not have the same side effects on a dog as on a human. Their normal effect is to give the dog another year or more of a happy and fruitful life.

But we've all said, "See your vet," because that's the only way to get a prescription for them anyway.

[4dognight]

I am not telling you what to do, but I have given my older large dogs who seemed to be in pain, when walking or even laying down refusing to move, aspirin according to their weight. They go from scowling to smiling. Seriously.

[hiero2]

Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk

All of us have said, "See your vet." Tramadol is a prescription medicine--it takes the vet's prescription to get it, and nobody here is advising doing anything illegal.

The point of our advise is to emphasize that this is not a minor issue. This is a very serious matter for the dog. We're actually talking about an end-of-life treatment, because without medication this potent, putting the dog down right now would be the humane thing to do.

Tramadol is an opioid, yes, but what does that mean for a dog? These drugs do not have the same side effects on a dog as on a human. Their normal effect is to give the dog another year or more of a happy and fruitful life.

But we've all said, "See your vet," because that's the only way to get a prescription for them anyway.

Good points, but! I'm glad at least you agree that we are talking about end-of-life treatment levels. I'm not sure others have kept that same thought in mind.

Now the "buts". Opioids have very much the same effect on dogs as people. They are addictive, etc. Tramadol is a synthetic opioid, and is supposedly non-addictive, and not as sedative as natural opioids. However, what does the AKC list as possible side effects of Tramadol? That list includes: drowsiness, anxiety, and dizziness. Which are the same side effects you would expect from a sedative.

As for being able to get Tramadol without a scrip. How many people got a prescription for back pain, and have some leftovers in the bathroom cabinet? Plenty. And, the laws for dispensing vary from country to country. I can get Tramadol in a pharmacy in Mexico without a prescription. I suspect that the OP was not born into a native English-speaking family - based on how they wrote. The OP might be living in another country - we just don't know. That information is not on the OP's profile.

If you feel like they give your dog another year or so of a happy life, that's great. In my experience Tramadol dopes the dog up so much they are no longer the same dog I know and love. For mine they were in less pain - but they were getting through the day doped to the gills - dopey, logey, dizzy, sleepy. That, IMO, is no way to live out your last days. Obviously, different dogs "feel" the effects differently. Just like people do. In your experience, the drug worked in your favor. Just as obviously, it doesn't always.

As a result, I do not feel comfortable blithely saying, "Oh, give the dog some Tramadol and he'll be happy!" Which is pretty much what I felt was said. Since I know that Tramadol is an extreme treatment, and is not suitable for every dog or person, I felt that I should point that out. I consider Tramadol a last resort only. And you, at least, are of the same opinion there. Others think otherwise. As far as the OP is concerned, I'm sure they will be listening to all of us equally.

Originally Posted by TFW46

hiero2, I also ask that you respect other experiences.

. . .If I had the choice of putting one of my beloved dogs to sleep due to arthritis or giving him a medication that some people dont like, you can bet I'd choose the medication. What would I have to lose?

Your continued condemnation of medications that can -- and do -- give arthritic dogs a new lease on life makes me wonder about your agenda.

TFW, I feel that I HAVE respected the other experiences offered here. My experiences do not match yours. I've repeatedly said I'm glad it works for you. As I mentioned above, the dogs I have given Tramadol to did not get an extension of their quality of life. AFAIC, it reduced the quality of life for them in their last days. It is an extreme, last resort, treatment. Tramadol and gabapentin are more than just some stronger aspirin. There is no agenda.

[bookspage]

I think the thing is that dogs experience these things different than humans, whether it’s pain or drugs.

As humans, we can hopefully understand what is happening to us and make choices and tradeoffs. The dog can never understand. That’s why arthritis is not the same disease at all in dogs as it is in humans.

I remember when I had to euthanize my dog for arthtitis, I couldn’t believe it. But he wasn’t himself anymore. My previous dog had to be euthanized for heart failure...that was much easier for ME to understand and accept.

[Dashdog]

I hope you can find something that helps the older dog become more comfortable, Getting old sucks!

Did you get the puppy when it was very young? I ask this as being someone that has always added a new dog as the others get old or have terminal illness ( which I have been lucky as they have also been old at that time). I can say the old guys are great with the young puppy and they tend to let it get away with a lot then when the puppy is around 5-6 months the cute puppy antics are not so cute anymore and the old dogs decide time the rude pup learns some real manners.


Things they may have tolerated before are no longer tolerated and when the pup does them he gets reprimanded by the older dog. My dogs have been fast learners so I have never had much of an issue as the older dog is able to get the message across very fast and the pup stops the offending behavior.


I have never owned a lab but the young ones I know and have been around seem a bit slow about learning from older dogs and would continue to taunt my dogs after they had been warned several times. For that reason several of my dogs have not been that fond of labs as they just do not get the back off message and get right back in my dogs face so I usually have to step in and remove my dog before they get pushed too far. The body slamming young labs tend to do also does not sit well with my dog so I imagine how hard it would be for a dog that might be having pain to deal with that.


My friend that is a puppy raiser for guide dogs for the blind has raised many labs. Her old border collie use to get frustrated with the rude pups and let them know she would not put up with that behavior but it took quite awhile for them to understand. Now she has an older Golden that was a guide dog drop out and sadly she is way too mellow and the puppies tend to abuse her and she just will not tell them to back off so they have to step in and rescue her and give her time away in another room where the pup leaves her alone. But yup there comes a day that annoying puppy behavior is not so cute anymore and older dogs now consider it rude so will let the puppy know that.