Flea problem with Shih Tzu

[World Citizen]

I had a Shih-Tzu once who had a flea allergy. One flea would send him over the edge scratching and knawing until he made sores on himself. To help this, I gave him low dose human antihistimines and kept his hair short in the summer so I could see what was going on... and keep him free of bugs.

Have you tried any of the new herbal products? I saw one the other day at Walmart that was MOSTLY oils, like peppermint... camphor... ??? Don't know how it works but it is mostly about Repelling the insects by scent. (I think Vanillin was the chemical for killing the bugs - which is what artificial vanilla is - and in it's purest form has been used as rat poison) .

Yes. I am a tree hugger - of sorts.

My current dog had a serious reaction to one of the internal, once a month, expensive, veterinarian supplied products. If you think about it, you are feeding your dog low dose poison - enough that it stays in their bodies for 30 days and kills any insect that bites them... There are many others who've had similar experiences with those products if you do a search on the internet...

One thing about the safer, greener products is that you can use them more often than 30 days...

One other idea... an Avon lady stopped by ther other day and swore that the Skin So Soft products with water added and misted on a dog will repel fleas.... People have been using it to repel mosquitos for years. Makes sense!

[Turtle]

I just had a couple of things to add to what's already been said. First, Capstar is GREAT! We use it all the time for pets that come in and we find fleas...automatically a capstar, it kills for 24 hours and is safe for daily use. Maybe after a good round of capstar, your pooch will be free of fleas, and then maybe the monthly topicals will be able to keep up. Maybe after the capstar, bomb your house (flea bomb that is) to be sure you get everything at once, otherwise it will just start another vicious cycle. You need to do your cars as well if your dog rides in them.

Also, if you are using a shampoo with soap in it, you are most likely washing off your topical. We have had reps from several companies tell us that unless the shampoo is soap free, the topicals will be washed away, and not only is your pet not protected, but you have pretty much thrown that money down the drain! If you are not sure if you have soap in your shampoo, we were told pretty much if it lathers up good, it has soap.

Good luck, it seems like you have tried alot of options, so hopefully someone will have a good recommendation of something you haven't tried yet and it will work! I am keeping my fingers crossed for you

[shihtzumom]

Originally Posted by Turtle

I just had a couple of things to add to what's already been said. First, Capstar is GREAT! We use it all the time for pets that come in and we find fleas...automatically a capstar, it kills for 24 hours and is safe for daily use. Maybe after a good round of capstar, your pooch will be free of fleas, and then maybe the monthly topicals will be able to keep up. Maybe after the capstar, bomb your house (flea bomb that is) to be sure you get everything at once, otherwise it will just start another vicious cycle. You need to do your cars as well if your dog rides in them.

Also, if you are using a shampoo with soap in it, you are most likely washing off your topical. We have had reps from several companies tell us that unless the shampoo is soap free, the topicals will be washed away, and not only is your pet not protected, but you have pretty much thrown that money down the drain! If you are not sure if you have soap in your shampoo, we were told pretty much if it lathers up good, it has soap.

Good luck, it seems like you have tried alot of options, so hopefully someone will have a good recommendation of something you haven't tried yet and it will work! I am keeping my fingers crossed for you

Thanks for the suggestions. So most recently I gave her a capstar. Then gave her a bath. Picked out 20 off her. Let her dry. Then applied Pro Meris for the first time. Had the pest control company come back. Since then she has not been scratching but has not done much of anything else either. She seems very tired and under the weather. She truly had her first nights sleep last night in weeks. So.. I am hoping she is just catching up on her sleep but I am keeping a close eye on her.

As far as money down the drain... jeez... I have spent more money on flea prevention (that has not worked) than any annuals, shots, spaying. It has been the biggest crunch on my income. Other people talk about $3.50 gallon gas and rising food cost- I talk about flea prevention. I kid you not! Although anything for me baby!

[Honeycrisp]

Another thought - the powder could cause her to scratch (same w/ carpet foams) -

Re the Promeris she's now on - this warning (see below) has been on several lists I'm on. Personally I'd rather wait til a product has been on the market several years before trying it on mine (remember ProHeart 6, the h/w meds that were given every 6 months but had very unfortunate results before it was finally pulled from the market - ??).

Anyway, here's the post and the link, please note this is not my dog -

This was just posted on another list:

<< This is Jo and this is a very important message to my family &
friends
who have dogs-cats--and to alert you to the hazard of using a new
Flea
& Tick Preventative called ProMeris
[SIZE=3]http://www.promeris.c...[/SIZE] (broken link)[SIZE=3] .

This is a new product designed to be a more effective product than
other flea/tick treatments that was just released this year. It is
available thru a vet and not currently on-line. I got ProMeris this
week for my 7 dogs (6 Huskies & 1 Golden-Airedale), and the results
were debilitating for nearly all of them-including me. Since my
incident this week, my vet has pulled it from distribution and
Alerted
the manufacturer, Fort Dodge.

Here are my results: Within less than 2 hours after applying, 4 of
my
dogs had vomited from 2-4 times, 3 were disoriented and stumbling, 1
was dragging his back leg, 1 was salivating. I had very similar
symptoms like an allergic reaction-my lips were swollen, eyes very
red, mucous membranes such as eyes, nose, and mouth were stinging. I
was very disoriented-dizzy equilibrium and not able to drive. To
make
this a short story-all 7 of my dogs were admitted to the hospital
for
veterinarian care, and 3 of them remained for care, IV fluids and
observation for 24 hours. I was in the emergency room. I'm home now
and so are the dogs. We're all feeling much better. Vet bills were
over $2,500 and Fort Dodge is paying for these. Not only can the
product cause this reaction, it has a highly noxious odor that
permeated the house and is just starting to dissipate after 3 days.

Your dogs/cats might not have the same reaction, but given my
experience-I wanted to help you all become well-educated about the
product.

Please check that you have not been offered this and if you are tell your Vets. about this posting. >>[/SIZE]

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by Honeycrisp

Another thought - the powder could cause her to scratch (same w/ carpet foams) -

Re the Promeris she's now on - this warning (see below) has been on several lists I'm on. Personally I'd rather wait til a product has been on the market several years before trying it on mine (remember ProHeart 6, the h/w meds that were given every 6 months but had very unfortunate results before it was finally pulled from the market - ??).

Anyway, here's the post and the link, please note this is not my dog -

This was just posted on another list:

<< This is Jo and this is a very important message to my family &
friends
who have dogs-cats--and to alert you to the hazard of using a new
Flea
& Tick Preventative called ProMeris
[SIZE=3]http://www.promeris.c...[/SIZE][SIZE=3] .[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]This is a new product designed to be a more effective product than[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]other flea/tick treatments that was just released this year. It is[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]available thru a vet and not currently on-line. I got ProMeris this[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]week for my 7 dogs (6 Huskies & 1 Golden-Airedale), and the results[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]were debilitating for nearly all of them-including me. Since my[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]incident this week, my vet has pulled it from distribution and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Alerted[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]the manufacturer, Fort Dodge.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Here are my results: Within less than 2 hours after applying, 4 of[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]my[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]dogs had vomited from 2-4 times, 3 were disoriented and stumbling, 1[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]was dragging his back leg, 1 was salivating. I had very similar[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]symptoms like an allergic reaction-my lips were swollen, eyes very[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]red, mucous membranes such as eyes, nose, and mouth were stinging. I[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]was very disoriented-dizzy equilibrium and not able to drive. To[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]make[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]this a short story-all 7 of my dogs were admitted to the hospital[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]for[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]veterinarian care, and 3 of them remained for care, IV fluids and[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]observation for 24 hours. I was in the emergency room. I'm home now[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]and so are the dogs. We're all feeling much better. Vet bills were[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]over $2,500 and Fort Dodge is paying for these. Not only can the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]product cause this reaction, it has a highly noxious odor that[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]permeated the house and is just starting to dissipate after 3 days.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Your dogs/cats might not have the same reaction, but given my[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]experience-I wanted to help you all become well-educated about the[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]product.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Please check that you have not been offered this and if you are tell your Vets. about this posting. >>[/SIZE]

Let me preface this post by saying that I understand that fleas and ticks are a serious problem and they must be dealt with but....

All of these are slow release poisons that you feed to your dog. So strong that anything that bites it dies... it's flowing through their veins and coming out of their skin...

Like everything else in America... out of site - out of mind...

Or, it's easy for me to use ... and a doctor is selling it.

My dog became extremely ill immediately after the second "treatment" (pill) of one of the heart, mosquito, flea things. (don't remember the name of it)

The veterinarian (who I quit going to) tried to deny the connection and charged me another couple $100 dollars to "treat" the reaction with more meds. Tried to convince me it was a food allergy (sudden onset) -- which I've definitely ruled out ...

There are MANY dogs having serious reactions to these toxins... (but, it's big money makers for the veterinarians) Fear sells. They all have the heartworm in the jar... (which an occasional worming would prevent)

[Sam I Am]

Have we covered sprinkling diatomaceous earth from the pool supply store on your yard? Harmless to you, but it nicks the shells of fleas and kills them.

Here's another link for you - maybe something would work ... we hope....

Flea Prevention

[Turtle]

The zoo I used to work at used diatomaceous earth in one of the exhibits, and if I remember correctly, it isn't harmless...you need to wear a respirator. It may be harmless as far as skin contact, but I think you need to be careful with inhaling it.

As far as it's use for fleas, that is interesting, I hadn't heard that before, but I would be hesitant to just sprinkle it around my yard where me and my guys hang out.

Maybe someone has more info?

[foxywench]

Moderator cut: orphaned part of post depends on what your using it for, how much your using and what grade the de is.
we use it with our chickens, but we use red earth FOOD grade as the chickens often eat it and food grade has no chemicals or treatments like the pool/general use stuff can have.
we use masks when using it in the chickencoop as we dust it around and its incredibly fine and very easy to inhale...its uncomfortable and makes you cough...
not gonna kill you as far as we know but the masks prevent any respitory annoyances (and we have the girls locked outside when we "dust it" once its down it doenst kick up very easily though so no worries there.
we use it to keep the parisites at bay, and when consumed it makes sure they dont have intestinal parisites too.

you could definatly use de on your dog, id suggest food grade incase it starts licking...but you would simply dust a good layer on, rub it WELL into the coat (not too rough with it but you want ot get it down to the skin) leave it on a few hours (i suggest being outside during this time) then comb the dog out before giving her a bath. the de particles are incredibly sharp and are dehydrating, they peirce the exoskeleton of the flea (or shell of the flea egg) and dehydrate the insect.
you may have to repeat a few times to get them all, but it works typically very well...

also make sure your washing the dogs bedding/blankets EVERY time you treat, hot water, preferably with a good dose of bleach.

im supprised that the topical is working for your other dogs but not for your tzu...thats very strange. most of the topicals are not repelants, and many need the parisite to bite before it kills...it sounds liek the fleas on your tzu are either simply not feeding off the tzu, or he somehow is being reinfested each time...(which makes me think youve got some living someplace in your house that the tzu frequently visits, ie his bed or a special blanket, mabe under a couch, behind a chair ect...)

i think the DE would definatly be a good idea for a next step...it seems like youve tried everything else. you should be able to pick up the food grade DE at any feed/farm supply store that sells animal feed, its used extensivly with chickens