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Old 08-19-2008, 04:15 PM
 
10 posts, read 27,167 times
Reputation: 15

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Hello everyone,

My name is Luke and I'm an old reader who has decided to go ahead and chip in on the discussion since I've been struggling with an ethical pet dilemma. This is mainly intended as a pet philosophical thread; I aspire to encourage the exchange of thought, not to create quarreling and banter, even though the dilemma may or may not have controversial implications, depending on how you feel about your own answer as well as the answers of others. I have read the rules sticky atop this forum, and do not believe I am committing any offense by posting this question. If you are easily offended by philosophy, I ask you not to read further.

The question is rather simple: Where does the ethical limit go when it comes to seeing to the best for your dog? You may think that answering this would be easy - "As far as it takes and is reasonable!" - but considering some examples from real life, I think we could stretch the philosophical boundaries of this question a bit further. Allow me to describe the background to why I am posting this question.

I have a seven year old Lagotto Romagnolo by the name Snuffy. I decided to go for a hypoallergenic dog since I am otherwise somewhat allergic, but I always feel fine in the company of Snuffy - even though I have to cut his hair at least once a month. I make sure that he gets premium food, long, healthy walks, and I've spent a lot on a variety of specially crafted toys to keep him busy with all that wonderful energy of his. Above all, I give him my time, and the bottom line is that I love him very much.

As for me, I work as the head sommellier at a fine restaurant in Stockholm, Sweden. It is my belief that one gains knowledge and understanding of the universe by experiencing it, and for me, taste is the first and foremost path to having wonderful and unique experiences.

Anyway, after I got a single malt whisky collection from my work last christmas - five bottles from Islay, Scotland - I decided to let Snuffy have a little taste. I gave him half a centilitre mixed with a medium sized bowl of water (or in other words, one *really* weak papa cocktail), and he loved it. The total alcohol percentage was about as weak as yoghurt. There is alcohol in almost everything, but in very, very small amounts.

I realize that you may now be thinking either "My god, what an idiot", or "So what's the big deal? I let my kids drink weak cider." I have always had the best for Snuffy in mind. He's lived about half his life, is healthy and has a steady weight - so why shouldn't he be able to enjoy himself a bit when I am? Why do we insist on giving dogs so little credit for their perceptions and desires only because they are "animals"? Are we not animals? And consider the lemures - they lick toxic insects because they get a buzz from their poison, comparable to getting high. I am liberal when it comes to alcohol, and I want my dog to experience life at its best while he has the chance. So, during the beginning of this year, I started giving him a big doggy-papa-cocktail each sunday, and we would watch television together as he joined me in my weekly winding-down procedure.

Come March, his still only got it every sunday, and it made him very pleased and calm, but I had to increase the amount of whisky in the water in order to satisfy him. He was then getting two centilitres every sunday, which when mixed with half a litre of water is still very little alcohol. Come May, it was up to four centilitres every sunday and wednesday, and I thought "this is it". It's been like that up until now, and still is. So far he's tried Lagavulin 16 y/o, Laphroaig 10, Bowmore 12, Ardbeg 10 and Bruichladdich 15 years. I don't know which one he likes the best, but he seems to like them all a lot. (My gift pack ran out a couple of months ago, since I was also drinking from it, so I've had to re-stock a little bit.)

That's where the limit was reached for me. He still gets his sunday and wednesday scotch, but even though he begs for more, I never increase the dose or give it to him on any other weekdays. I want him to be satisfyed, but not an alcoholic.

I hope you will realize that I am sincere in my request when I ask: does this make me a bad man, for wanting what's best for Snuffy? I've heard a few remarks about how this should be bad, maybe even evil, but I do not like to be accused of tormenting Snuffy. If you believe that our habits are wrong, please speak your mind, but please keep it civil. Also: where does the line go for you, with what you do with your dog?

 
Old 08-19-2008, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Clear Lake, Houston TX
8,376 posts, read 30,631,672 times
Reputation: 4720
No biggie. I give my 13lb wiener dog a measured ounce of beer every blue moon. He likes them all. When I was in college around 2002 I found that he starts walking diagonally after about 4 oz.

Back then he also found & devoured my roommate's green stash....... I'll save that one for another topic.
 
Old 08-19-2008, 04:23 PM
 
10 posts, read 27,167 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tstone View Post
No biggie. I give my 13lb wiener dog a measured ounce of beer every blue moon. He likes them all. When I was in college around 2002 I found that he starts walking diagonally after about 4 oz.
Hehe, cool. That's my alcohol/dog philosophy in short - so long as it's just 'getting a little tipsy', it's all good. Who doesn't love to get tipsy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tstone View Post
Back then he also found & devoured my roommate's green stash....... I'll save that one for another topic.
Oh, brother! o.O That sounds like a different thread indeed
 
Old 08-19-2008, 04:24 PM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,025,355 times
Reputation: 2949
Alcohol can be toxic to dogs. It's not funny.

http://stormy.blogs.com/stormy/2005/06/no_drinks_for_d.html (broken link)

Holiday Safety Tips for Dogs

Last edited by World Citizen; 08-19-2008 at 05:39 PM..
 
Old 08-19-2008, 04:25 PM
 
10 posts, read 27,167 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
Alcohol can be toxic to dogs.

Holiday Safety Tips for Dogs
But can not everything be toxic in the 'right' (or rather 'wrong') amount? Drinking too much water can kill a human.
 
Old 08-19-2008, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Clear Lake, Houston TX
8,376 posts, read 30,631,672 times
Reputation: 4720
Actually I don't think he gets tipsy at all. He definitely doesn't act like it. Where I draw the line is making him inebriated against his will, unless it's for his health. For instance he has a pollen allergy and the steroids make him woozy. However two tablespoons of beer doesn't affect him, and really isn't any different than dropping him a piece of meat IMO.
 
Old 08-19-2008, 04:33 PM
 
10 posts, read 27,167 times
Reputation: 15
Agreed.

As for your link though, World Citizen, I've seen no such symptoms on Snuffy. Only the occasional problems with loose excrement and vomiting, but he did that before from time to time anyway, and that's probably due to him running around too much (which he only does when he's not gotten alcohol). Since I'm openly posing a serious question, I'm not trying to be "funny", but I do desire to be friendly to fellow forum dwellers.
 
Old 08-19-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: "The Sunshine State"
4,334 posts, read 13,639,566 times
Reputation: 3064
What next....now I heard it all! An alcoholic dog! Alcohol is poisonous to animals. For what reason would anyone give a dog alcohol?
https://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/categ...54/dogbowl.asp

Read above...alcohol can cause coma and death in dogs!
 
Old 08-19-2008, 05:18 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
265 posts, read 1,290,163 times
Reputation: 212
Luke, I appreciate the clearly well thought/well crafted post and the fact that you're looking to stimulate dialog. I guess I'm just a little puzzled about your reasoning for giving Snuffy alcohol, so that he might experience the finer things in life...for dogs, what could be finer than rolling in ****, quite literally...human defecation being perhaps highest on the list? (Although I realize, for some, eating it is much preferred to rolling in it.) And yet, do you indulge him in this? Do you want to share this experience with Snuffy? There are many, many, many things people do for enjoyment, aesthetics, etc., and they're not appropriate for animals--at least, not without modification. For example, let's say one takes great pleasure in alternative sexual experiences (and I'm not talking about interspecies)....hello? Are you going to share that with your dog? I don't see the logic as that much of a stretch.

I too indulge my dogs every weekend--typically Sunday afternoons. While I lie in the hammock, reading or just enjoying being outdoors, they lie beneath me (or nearby) chomping on frozen bison bones...that's right up there for them. Just as, if I indulged in alcohol, sipping high end scotch might be for me. I can see and hear their pleasure--they enjoy few things more--and yet, it's not anything I want to share with them, other than sharing by witnessing, being nearby, providing the experience.

There was another thread recently about indulging dogs in foods that are known to be toxic and have been/can be lethal (chocolate and grapes being two such)...the way I see it, you're Snuffy's guardian and it's your job to care for him in the best, healthiest way possible--to me, that's the implicit agreement people who have animals/children sign up for. Of course, we know that's not the world we live in--children and animals are horribly abused. Would it be any more or less ethical if you gave your child scotch twice a week? Where would you draw the line?

~PudelPie
 
Old 08-19-2008, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Sarasota, Florida
3,412 posts, read 10,153,498 times
Reputation: 2033
Luke Doglover, i think you need to lay off alcohol and stop giving it to your dog. Alcohol is not only poison for a dog, it is a poison for humans, it is man made and not nature made. Of, course, you enjoy your alcohol, so i think a 2 month old child might as well. So let's make a drink for a kid and watch TV together...

What is the point of your post? I didn't find it funny, i actually found that your way of thinking is lacking common sense and intelligence.
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