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Old 10-11-2008, 09:33 AM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,140 posts, read 11,575,313 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noid_1985 View Post
Pets, Dogs and Cats Blog | Pets Do figured my good ol' Rottweiler was on the list, but really a Chow Chow???- now that's laughable
Sorry man but it ain't so funny. Chows are a quirky breed. I had one once. He started out ok as a pup. I had him fixed and he was well taken care of. When he was about three or so he just flat went bad on me. Out of the blue he went after my best buddies son and mine when he tried to restrain him and then turned on ME when I tried to restrain him. No provocation, no rhyme or reason. A Chow can do a LOT of damage. Aside from this incident I've seen four other similar ones where a Chow just went nuts out of nowhere. Why is a mystery but it happened. I'll never have another Chow or any dog with Chow mixed in. Want a good family dog Norweigan Elkhound. But in all honesty The best dogs I ever had were all good ol' American mutts. Oddly enough the VERY best dog I ever had was a coy dog. Half Coyote and half Black Lab. . I suppose thats food for thought when one considers tagging a particular breed of dog with a label as "vicious". There just ain't no way of knowing for sure.

 
Old 10-11-2008, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Kentucky/ Displaced Texan
3,106 posts, read 2,661,558 times
Reputation: 1024
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I don't recall ever telling anyone that all pit bulls were bad or dangerous. However on the flip side, it's very tiresome to hear the pit bull owners wax poetic about how wonderful and friendly their dog is, or what a wonderful family dog it is or how everyone else doesn't know what they are missing by not owning a pit bull. INSTEAD, I would respect a pit bull owner a whole lot more if they could be honest and more realistic and tell other people that pits are a great dog IF they are socialized properly., well trained and treated. Because most pit bull owners seem to be constantly preaching how everyone should experience the wonderfulness of the best dog breed ever, the pit bull. And that's actually doing a grave disservice to their breed.. Never ever recommend owning a pit bull to anyone that you aren't 110% would be a responsible pit bull owner.

Sure I know that your pit bull would never willingly hurt your baby or child. However ALL dogs can get playful and like to roughhouse with their family. And a pit bull can accidentally hurt a human in play. All pit bull owners admit that their dogs are rough on their toys... and that's the same reason that they can potentially hurt your baby or child or any other creature that is less powerful than them.

Locally, someone posted on craigslist ranting that within the last month, their aunt's two pit bulls have been the victims of two misunderstandings. One dog jumped on a stranger's child, knocking it down and scratching the skin lightly. The second dog had a minor altercation with a smaller dog during a walk on a leash. Now the dogs are banned from the town. No, I don't think that these dogs did anything dangerous so far, but what immediately comes to my mind is that they aren't trained properly and that it's their owner's fault for not being able to control them. And without being trained properly, they do have the potential to cause real hurt and damage. And I would say that while I don't think her dogs should be put to sleep, she has no business owning dogs like pit bulls. I wouldn't even want her to have a smaller dog. Or maybe dog owners like that just need to keep their dogs on their property and not take them out in public. If those dogs are such love bugs in the home, let them stay there.

WIth my little dogs, if they did jump up on a child or person, they aren't going to knock them down to the ground. With my lab, well with the one that I have, he's got an extremely submissive personality. Plus I am strong enough to control him on a leash. One easy tug, and he does what I want. Put my small terrier's personality into the lab's body, and it would be trouble. Anyway for me, small dogs rock!

Why do Pitt owners have to say their dogs are good if they are raised well? That is true of every dog, if you raise the small dogs to be bad then they will be bad. Pitts are rough one their toys? Okay but we have a golden who destroys every toy she gets. We don't raise our dogs to be mean or vicious, but again the MIGHTY golden has gotten aggressive to our 10 month twice. That is two times more than the Pitt ever has. I'm sorry but you are making specifics about Pitts when they are true in every case. If you raise a St. Bernard to be be mean then it will be mean. If I raise it to be well behaved it will be well behaved We had a case here where a baby was sleeping on the bed and a Jack Russel jumped on the bed and attacked it killing the child. Of course you don't hear about Jack Russel's being dangerous.
 
Old 10-11-2008, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Jax
8,204 posts, read 32,160,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
I don't recall ever telling anyone that all pit bulls were bad or dangerous. However on the flip side, it's very tiresome to hear the pit bull owners wax poetic about how wonderful and friendly their dog is, or what a wonderful family dog it is or how everyone else doesn't know what they are missing by not owning a pit bull. INSTEAD, I would respect a pit bull owner a whole lot more if they could be honest and more realistic and tell other people that pits are a great dog IF they are socialized properly., well trained and treated. Because most pit bull owners seem to be constantly preaching how everyone should experience the wonderfulness of the best dog breed ever, the pit bull. And that's actually doing a grave disservice to their breed.. Never ever recommend owning a pit bull to anyone that you aren't 110% would be a responsible pit bull owner.
I think what many people do not realize is the resiliency of pit bulls. In a perfect world, all pit bulls would be born and raised in loving homes where they receive the best of training and socialization. In reality, that is just not the case. But a lack of training/socialization does not doom a dog to be "dangerous" or a hopeless case.

The pit I took in roughly a year ago was a 2 year old adult who had zero training, zero socialization, had never been indoors, never been on a leash, had been bred and most likely fought due to the number and ages of the scars and wounds covering her body. She had poor nutrition, tapeworms, abcesses and a host of other problems. This dog was traumatized when we took her in.

Today, she's a completely different dog. I had little to do with it, it was all her. Mentally, pits are tough dogs. A different breed dog might not have been able to recover as this dog did. Today she walks on a leash, listens to what I tell her, she's an ideal dog . Do I trust her around other people? Absolutely! She's never given a hint of aggression towards a person. Do I trust her around strange dogs? No way, I have to be careful when she gets around other dogs.

I say that to say this: I tire of people (not directing this at you, Miu, I'm speaking in general) speaking as if pit bulls were a wild animal that you have to tame within a certain period or all hope is lost. They're just dogs. And maybe that's key - you have to treat them like dogs, not like little people or little toys or whatever. Just dogs.

I see plenty of people who I would say are "good" dog guardians. They love their dogs, feed them well, never abuse them and heap loads of love on them. But they also reinforce neurotic behaviors on their dogs without even realizing it. Their dogs aren't allowed to do dog things and just be dogs. I think it's sad.
 
Old 10-12-2008, 10:59 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,101 posts, read 34,528,599 times
Reputation: 16145
All dogs are not alike. There is no such thing as just a dog. With pits, it's a combination of their large size and muscular build, coupled with their temperament. Some pits could be mellow all their lives, but unfortunately, not all of them. There is a good reason that there are so many terrible stories every day in the news about pits or pit mixes or pit looking dogs. My boyfriend has experienced first hand a nicely raised pit bull snap and attack another dog with no provocation, so it's not a myth. Smaller dogs are much easier to control. If they start to get yappy and out of hand, it's no big deal to just bend over and pick them up and safely out of the situation. With a larger, stronger and heavier dog, it's going to be a problem.

My boyfriend and I don't like chows, but we don't talk about it as much as chows aren't popular now, so there is no need to bring it up. On the other hand, with all the posts about how wonderful their pit bulls are, that's why I feel the need to counter their comments with the other side of the coin.

I feel strongly that no dog or dogs should ever be left alone in the company of a baby or young child.

And I've also pointed out that if my smaller terrier's spunky alpha personality were in the body of a larger dog like my lab mix, that would be a really awful combination. The lab mix is a much better pet for having a submissive personality. And because of the neighborhood I live in, I don't want or need a guard dog. And in addition, my neighbors appreciate my choice in dogs and don't have to worry about their kids playing next door to them.

So I really don't mind you enjoying your pit bulls as pets, but please don't encourage the ownership of pit bulls as the perfect dog for everyone. Please don't breed them and make more of them. Right now, looking through Petfinder, in CT all the dogs right now in the city animal shelters are large pit bull mixes. And since those are high kill shelters, most of them will end up being put to sleep. There are plenty of pits without making more of them.

Again to be fair, I don't like to see anyone being a hobby or backyard breede of any breed of dog or cat, not with so many unwanted dogs and cats in the animal shelters. I believe in adopting only mutts and leaving the breeding of purebreds to those who do dog shows and know what they are doing for their breed.
 
Old 10-12-2008, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,541 posts, read 16,351,968 times
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Pitbulls are medium sized dogs, not large. Any dog can bite out of the blue, any breed, any dog. It is absolutely foolish to think only a pitbull can do it. Usually their are signs that people dont pick up on. I always look in my dogs eyes, and how he acts, you can usually tell their mood by that.

Why do you feel the need to constantly show the other side of the coin but completely avoid the notion that small dogs, and other dogs can be dangerous too. I can pull up plenty of statistics to show that Staffs have a better temprement that most dogs. The best thing about that study is that there are more Staffs and APBT's tested than almost any other breed, which makes it good cause they still, despite the large numbers have a higher success rate, which is great.

Nobody has encouraged the pitbulls as the perfect dog for everybody, and I read almost every Pitbull related thread on these forums. You spoke about the lab mix having a much more submissive personality, so how was it my Lab / Retriever mix was the worst dog I ever owned. Like my Staff (Dakota) he was a house dog, always around kids but he seemed to hate em. Never tolerated kids.

There are plenty of all breeds in a dog shelter.
 
Old 10-12-2008, 02:35 PM
 
2,707 posts, read 5,350,324 times
Reputation: 5550
Quote:
Originally Posted by noid_1985 View Post
Pets, Dogs and Cats Blog | Pets Do figured my good ol' Rottweiler was on the list, but really a Chow Chow???- now that's laughable
The only breed of dog I am especially cautious of is the Chow Chow. It's not that I think they are mean dogs or anything, but the few Chow Chows I have met have been very aloof and wary of people, to the point of being growly and defensive, and I think that makes them more unpredictable, especially with strangers. They're also very loyal to their family, and when you combine that loyalty with their natural suspicion of strangers, I think you have the potential for a volatile situation.

Quote:
Any dog can bite out of the blue, any breed, any dog.
I agree with this completely. And I think people are foolish when it comes to dogs. They're not as respectful as they should be, and they don't seem to understand body language or signals or understand that certain dogs are going to have certain characteristics hardwired into their genetic code. That doesn't make them bad dogs, but it does mean that people shouldn't automatically assume that every dog is going to welcome a stranger's touch or a stranger's presence in its territory.
 
Old 10-12-2008, 03:03 PM
 
Location: NW Nevada
14,140 posts, read 11,575,313 times
Reputation: 13207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
The only breed of dog I am especially cautious of is the Chow Chow. It's not that I think they are mean dogs or anything, but the few Chow Chows I have met have been very aloof and wary of people, to the point of being growly and defensive, and I think that makes them more unpredictable, especially with strangers. They're also very loyal to their family, and when you combine that loyalty with their natural suspicion of strangers, I think you have the potential for a volatile situation.



I agree with this completely. And I think people are foolish when it comes to dogs. They're not as respectful as they should be, and they don't seem to understand body language or signals or understand that certain dogs are going to have certain characteristics hardwired into their genetic code. That doesn't make them bad dogs, but it does mean that people shouldn't automatically assume that every dog is going to welcome a stranger's touch or a stranger's presence in its territory.
Absolutely true and prudent advice! Dogs are animals and thus govern their behavior on instinct. Fight or flight is their first last and only concrete rule. In my previous posts I mentioned my coy dog. His behavior was typical of most canines despite the fact that he was half wild. from a scientific standpoint you would think he would have been highly scittish but he wasn't. Plus he was EXTREMELY bright. He loved kids and when he was around them that was when I urged the most caution with him. No body approached the kids without me telling him it was ok. Any dog needs to be approached with caution and respect though. As you say ANY dogs switch can trip at any time without regard to breed. Even the most trusted and tractable family pet.
 
Old 10-12-2008, 03:13 PM
 
Location: In a delirium
2,588 posts, read 4,935,071 times
Reputation: 1379
I was surprised to see boxers and dalmations on the list. The only ones I have ever known were completely lovable goofballs. More dangerous because they are very enthusiastic during play and can knock you over while playing with you.
 
Old 10-12-2008, 04:12 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,101 posts, read 34,528,599 times
Reputation: 16145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Niftybergin View Post
I agree with this completely. And I think people are foolish when it comes to dogs. They're not as respectful as they should be, and they don't seem to understand body language or signals or understand that certain dogs are going to have certain characteristics hardwired into their genetic code. That doesn't make them bad dogs, but it does mean that people shouldn't automatically assume that every dog is going to welcome a stranger's touch or a stranger's presence in its territory.
I agree with this also. However, no one can guarantee that their dog will be kept from all strangers and away from potential hostile interactions. Just as no matter how careful any of us are when driving our cars, there is always a chance of getting into a car accident.

Anyway, I just googled "dog attack" in new stories and I came across an article interviewing victims of dog attacks. And I really hope that none of us in this thread will ever be the victim of a dog attack. The article doesn't focus on much on the breeds involved, just on the aftermath of pain and fear that the victims suffer long afterwards. One attacking dog was a golden retriever. And I think that it is reasonable to require dog owners to carry liability insurance. Saying you're sorry just isn't enough.

Local News | Dog bite victims suffer long after attack | Seattle Times Newspaper
 
Old 10-12-2008, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Chicago suburb
702 posts, read 2,242,402 times
Reputation: 249
What good does it do to read a list like the one that was posted in this thread? Not every dog is for every person. What I like and what you like can be different and that's Ok. My only hope is that no matter what breed or mutt you like you are a humane and responsible owner. That's the bottom line and if people could remember that and actually live that we wouldn't have BSL or people buying into myths about dogs or perpetuating stereotypes. I guess it's a good thing that we have this forum available to help get accurate and balanced information out there.
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